Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by threads13 (Mid Stakes)

Time Link to 00:13:44

He called the original raiser pf, can he really have AK here and flat the raise. Wouldn't he be 3betting pf with AK

I think he either has 44,77, or some sort of heart draw like QJ,AJ, or AQ and if we did put him on a hand like AJ or AQ of hearts, would you find a call?

Great vid btw

really enjoyed the vid and you guys had some great discussion!!!!

This video was lots of fun and we had a really interesting hand before the vid started so I'll post the HH

Poker Stars $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 560041
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG+2: $45.55
MP1: $141.00
MP2: $200.00
CO: $47.50
BTN: $188.80
SB: $46.55
BB: $249.15
Hero (UTG): $245.75
UTG+1: $136.30

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is UTG with 8 9
Hero raises to $6, 5 folds, BTN calls $6, 2 folds

Flop: ($15.00) 4 J 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $12.00, BTN raises to $42, Hero calls $30

Turn: ($99.00) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($99.00) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $197.75, BTN folds

Final Pot: $99.00
Hero wins $96.00
(Rake: $3.00)

Villain was running 19/16 in our small sample and this was really threads' idea on the river to make villain fold a Jack (which I agree is his most likely holding when he flats the flop and checks back 2 streets). I tend to worry a bit too much (imo) about the fact that we're not repping a whole lot (I don't think we'd check back QQ/JJ on the turn and jamming KK+ here is pretty sick if our opponent will call light because we rep nothing, but we really don't have that read), but with this much pressure, he really can't call.

Time Link to 00:32:07

76s table 4: Curious to hear why you think its a fold or shove spot when your cbet gets raised. I think shoving is worst option because you probably have 0 fold equity and if called your up against a better flush draw and sets or J9. I think calling is better then shoving getting close to 3:1 odds on the call and 7:1 implied. Folding is best IMO.


Liked the backraise with 88 earlier in the vid. Probably some spots I miss out on.

Prime number fail =]

Time Link to 00:04:43

I disagree with wanting to 3bet johnster here again. I've watched this guy play a decent amount and hes crazy nuts. If you 3bet him twice in a row he would almost definitely 4bet you or atleast call and basically be c/r flops 100% of the time.

Time Link to 00:07:30

why not open A9 with a 50/29 drooler sitting in the blinds? and 2 of the 3 players behind you look like complete nits.

He called the original raiser pf, can he really have AK here and flat the raise. Wouldn't he be 3betting pf with AK

I think he either has 44,77, or some sort of heart draw like QJ,AJ, or AQ and if we did put him on a hand like AJ or AQ of hearts, would you find a call?

Great vid btw

the original raiser is a 8/6 so by all means flatting AK from him would be 100% standard. i agree with threads on this hand that he has squarely AK here. I suppose its possible he could have like AQhh but thats about all I think we beat here. This is the problem with squeezing marginal hands like KQ OOP. when ppl call even when u get top end flops for ur hand, playing it OOP Is going to be rediculously tough.

Time Link to 00:15:58

i kind of disagree with firing this river. this would be a good river to fire if we didnt have the A. but it just seems like your asking this guy to call 3 barrells with something like TJ here on a 4 straight, A high board. just doesn't seem like your getting that call nearly as much as you would like. If I'm betting here I would tend towards betting like no more than 1/3 pot and probably closer to 1/4 or 1/5 pot for thin value.

76s table 4: Curious to hear why you think its a fold or shove spot when your cbet gets raised. I think shoving is worst option because you probably have 0 fold equity and if called your up against a better flush draw and sets or J9. I think calling is better then shoving getting close to 3:1 odds on the call and 7:1 implied. Folding is best IMO.


Liked the backraise with 88 earlier in the vid. Probably some spots I miss out on.

It's really a spot where we don't like any of our options, to be honest. Looking back at on it now we might just have a call given the position he called from preflop. Because he called in MP he is a little less likely to have SC and Axs type hands that would raises the flop with a flush draw. This means when we hit our hand we are much more likely to have the best flush which just essentially means we have more equity/implied odds when we hit.

I disagree with wanting to 3bet johnster here again. I've watched this guy play a decent amount and hes crazy nuts. If you 3bet him twice in a row he would almost definitely 4bet you or atleast call and basically be c/r flops 100% of the time.

Right on. Well that's a specific read that I haven't picked up on him from playing with him, but the point about 3-betting twice in a row is very true against most TAGs. It's definitely something you can do to pick up some easy pots.

why not open A9 with a 50/29 drooler sitting in the blinds? and 2 of the 3 players behind you look like complete nits.

Cause we had two interesting hands that we were discussing up top and didn't have time to look at all the stats.

i kind of disagree with firing this river. this would be a good river to fire if we didnt have the A. but it just seems like your asking this guy to call 3 barrells with something like TJ here on a 4 straight, A high board. just doesn't seem like your getting that call nearly as much as you would like. If I'm betting here I would tend towards betting like no more than 1/3 pot and probably closer to 1/4 or 1/5 pot for thin value.

It's a spot where we almost definitely have the best hand given the way the hand has gone down. He probably hasn't slowplayed a big hand because, as I mentioned in the video, most TAGs at these stakes don't have OOP slowplays in their arsenal, and it's pretty much impossible for him to hold a straight because how does he get to the river with a 2 in his hand? The only better hand we are worried about getting called by is AT.

When you are in a spot on the river where you are in position and it's really hard for your opponent to have a better hand then it is criminal to check it back. Obviously it's going to be hard to get our villain to find a call on this board and I definitely am fine with making a smaller bet so that he cries pot odds and calls. Against a thinking player it might make more sense for us to bomb the river as a leveling play because he will think "How does he hold a 2? His range is polarized. I call". Against a crazy bluffer a small bet with the intention of calling a c/r is a reasonable play.

There are lots of options on this river, but they all include betting.

the original raiser is a 8/6 so by all means flatting AK from him would be 100% standard. i agree with threads on this hand that he has squarely AK here. I suppose its possible he could have like AQhh but thats about all I think we beat here. This is the problem with squeezing marginal hands like KQ OOP. when ppl call even when u get top end flops for ur hand, playing it OOP Is going to be rediculously tough.

I still stand behind the squeeze with KQ. Very rarely are we going to get into spots like this where the guy calls with AK and we both hit out hand and we have to find a fold. Most of the time we just pick up the pot preflop(a vast majority of the time, in fact). The times that we don't we are still in a +EV situation postflop because we have a good handle on his range.

cool yeah I agree with most of what your saying. As far as the johnster thing I don't really have any reads on him persay I just watched one of my friends play one night and no joke johnster 3bet every one of his opens, 4bet him everytime he 3bet him, and if the pot did see a flop johnster never gave up. there was no quit in the guy. maybe he was catching some hands, maybe he was on tilt. i dunno, but thats just the way he looked to me.

As far as the A6 hand I mean I agree we have the best hand and betting is fine, I just didn't really like the betsize. I either like a big bet like u were saying to induce a level like "oh he would never bet this big on this board with Ax he has to have nuts or air", or a small bet to induce a call from those weak holdings that are just like Fark it, I got QT I call 18 bux into 75$ pot.

As far as the squeeze with KQ i mean its ok i guess. I just worry becuz the original opener is an 8/6 and we are OOP if we ever get called here. As far as the flop i 100% agree in checking becuz what are we getting value from. It just sux when ppl start betting, but I guess you can feel fine that in this type of preflop pot, nobodies going to have many if any bluffs in their ranges. So the c/c c/f line seems 100% standard.

cool yeah I agree with most of what your saying. As far as the johnster thing I don't really have any reads on him persay I just watched one of my friends play one night and no joke johnster 3bet every one of his opens, 4bet him everytime he 3bet him, and if the pot did see a flop johnster never gave up. there was no quit in the guy. maybe he was catching some hands, maybe he was on tilt. i dunno, but thats just the way he looked to me.

As far as the A6 hand I mean I agree we have the best hand and betting is fine, I just didn't really like the betsize. I either like a big bet like u were saying to induce a level like "oh he would never bet this big on this board with Ax he has to have nuts or air", or a small bet to induce a call from those weak holdings that are just like Fark it, I got QT I call 18 bux into 75$ pot.

As far as the squeeze with KQ i mean its ok i guess. I just worry becuz the original opener is an 8/6 and we are OOP if we ever get called here. As far as the flop i 100% agree in checking becuz what are we getting value from. It just sux when ppl start betting, but I guess you can feel fine that in this type of preflop pot, nobodies going to have many if any bluffs in their ranges. So the c/c c/f line seems 100% standard.

I agree that the A6 hand the bet size on the river was to much, his hand for the most part is marginal and it's really hard for villain to call any significant bet size on the river. Your only option is to bet but the bet was to large.

As far as the KQ hand where you squeezed, I don't like it at all, I think it's really spewey, theres nothing wrong with 3 betting an UTG raiser light with hands like KQo but not when he seems fairly tight and theres a very good posibility that the pot will become multiway and you basically have 0 information on how people in the hand will react to 3 bets, much better spots to 3 bet an UTG raiser with KQo in my opinion.

Plus theres the fact you are OOP the entire hand if called

If the UTG raiser were an unknown with the stats we are seeing I agree that squeezing KQ in this spot would be spewy. I've played a lot of hands with the guy and I know that he is a looser player 8/6. I think he runs more like 15/12. In that case I think it's fine to do some frequency of the time.

STOP shuffling chips. Nice vid though!

If the UTG raiser were an unknown with the stats we are seeing I agree that squeezing KQ in this spot would be spewy. I've played a lot of hands with the guy and I know that he is a looser player 8/6. I think he runs more like 15/12. In that case I think it's fine to do some frequency of the time.

What about the fact that there are 2 other unknowns in the hand in which you know nothing about how they will react postflop or preflop in 3 bet pots, Does that not alter your decision at all? If so, how?

You really don't know if your 3 bettign KQ for value or betting KQ as a bluff because you really have no idea as to the continuing ranges of the unknowns.

You say he's a 15/12 are you 3 betting there for value or as a bluff? what hands is he raising UTG that makes KQo a 3 bet for value?

STOP shuffling chips. Nice vid though!

haha rapid is a chip shuffling junky.

What about the fact that there are 2 other unknowns in the hand in which you know nothing about how they will react postflop or preflop in 3 bet pots, Does that not alter your decision at all? If so, how?

You really don't know if your 3 bettign KQ for value or betting KQ as a bluff because you really have no idea as to the continuing ranges of the unknowns.

You say he's a 15/12 are you 3 betting there for value or as a bluff? what hands is he raising UTG that makes KQo a 3 bet for value?

The first caller isn't an unknown to me. I've played with him a lot. The other player is an unknown sure, but I guess I also assumed he was a mark because RE had a mark on him. Poor assumption perhaps. If a mark just flats me and I'm playing KQo OOP versus him postflop... well that's just fine with me. I'm doing fine versus his range and I'm going to be able to read hands better and do all the things that good poker players do postflop. If these guys were both unknowns then I would tend to just let the hand go... sure. I don't even mind just letting this hand go even in this spot. To me it's not too big of a deal either way, to be honest. I pushed a squeeze both for the videos stake(getting into marginal spots and what have you) and because that was the attitude we were taking to this video.

I really don't group hands into "value" and "bluff" explicitly. I think of value betting versus bluffing as a continuum. Sometimes we are in spots where our fold equity is really enormous and makes a play profitable. Does that mean we are only bluffing and never getting value? Of course not. In terms of that, I would say this hand is towards the bluffing side of the continuum, but it still will have some value component to as well if we see a flop against a range of JJ-type hands.

I like to think in terms of our equity. In this spot there is likely an 80% chance that I am going to just pick up this pot right away. That makes this play immediately profitable even if I just c/f postflop(which honestly I would be doing a lot since if I expect them to fold a lot it only follows logically that their range is strong and I won't have much steal equity postflop). I estimated that I had a ton of FE and if I get called I have a playable hand postflop under most scenarios. So, I guess it's not a value raise... or a bluff.. it's a semi-bluff. Also, I don't like just flatting KQ in this spot at all so the decision for me is whether to fold or raise. I think raising is +EV in a vacuum.

Let me also just explicitly say that I don't think this is an auto-squeeze spot or anything like that. I think it's something to do when the game situations are right. Perhaps squeezing in this exact spot about 30% of the time is a fair estimate.

Time Link to 00:13:40

Theses are the exact spots I get into trouble with squeezing though easily dominated hands OOP and flopping something similar. I tend not to give villian credit and pay them off... what do you think about squeezing AQ AJ AT KJ hands in that same position?

Time Link to 01:04:21

In that TT vs 33 where you checked it down. You are basically giving up if he bets? Also what smaller pairs are you checking vs betting bc you don't have good showdown value?

i kind of disagree with firing this river. this would be a good river to fire if we didnt have the A. but it just seems like your asking this guy to call 3 barrells with something like TJ here on a 4 straight, A high board. just doesn't seem like your getting that call nearly as much as you would like. If I'm betting here I would tend towards betting like no more than 1/3 pot and probably closer to 1/4 or 1/5 pot for thin value.

yes, he is folding most of the time but the times he does call to look us up, we get value. also, to keep in mind is balancing ranges. its not too important but the next time he sees 3barrels when high cards come, he will think twice about calling down. this strengthens our bluffs a lot with this opponent knowing that we have nuts, bluffs, and marginal hands all in our range

In that TT vs 33 where you checked it down. You are basically giving up if he bets?

Yeah, against most players there isn't much we can do in this spot. The board came down tough for our particular hand and against their range there just isn't much of a better player than to just c/f.

Also what smaller pairs are you checking vs betting bc you don't have good showdown value?

A hand like 22/33 certainly has "more to gain" by betting and it's probably a better play to bet with 22 than with TT, but that doesn't mean that betting is better than checking. A bet is pretty much only +EV if we have enough FE with a 22-type hand since we have very little equity when called. We would need somewhere near 40-50% FE in this spot and I just don't think we have it whether our hand is 22 or TT. That's going to make our bet as a bluff -EV.

The chips shuffling is one thing but the Admin messages and tourney announcements all over the board was huge LOL for me. RapidEvolute your option to block that crap.
Video was very educational, I feel like there were a few spots folding hands and also 3 betting that were very well thought through. Great Job guys hope this series continues for many episodes.

Time Link to 00:26:35

When you make the comment "This looks like a good spot to float to me", what kinds of things are you looking for when you are thinking about good spots to float the flop?

When you make the comment "This looks like a good spot to float to me", what kinds of things are you looking for when you are thinking about good spots to float the flop?

There's a lot of variables. Generally speaking, we want him to be checking with the intention of folding the turn a lot after he has bet the flop.

In this particular spot, this is a pretty aggressive player who is c-betting in late position on a flop texture that he is likely c-betting 100% of his air hands, and possibly checking with stronger hands(JJ, QT, etc). This means his range is going to be pretty weak on the flop as it's pretty hard to hit this flop hard. In addition, it's not a board that he is likely going to barrel often on a brick. Without a read, I assume he will only do that with flush draws which have pretty good pot equity against me anyways and strong-ish made hands. That leaves a lot of his range to check-fold the turn. On top of all this, we have an overcard and two backdoor draws. So, we have some pot equity in this spot, which will help make the play more profitable because we will make up some money by hitting the best hand and getting value.