KingJames_KJ
165 posts
Joined 12/2009
Great video
T4 @ ~21:00
AJhh BvB 3b vs short stack min-raise
6d7h4h flop, jam 3x pot. $20.5 into $7
I stoved it vs 44, 66-99, A7s, 67s, 98s, 65s and we're 45%. Thoughts on that range?
I kinda like the line vs a SS fish. Often we cbet $5 in this spot and get called. And if the fish jams a turn brick for $15.50 into $17 we will have to fold I think...
And then if he reloads and we get an over pair vs him, we can take the same line and just over jam for value or something
Posted over 1 year ago
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BoterSmoter
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MadAgent
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doc.lemon
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linkwood
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Great video
T4 @ ~21:00
AJhh BvB 3b vs short stack min-raise
6d7h4h flop, jam 3x pot. $20.5 into $7
I stoved it vs 44, 66-99, A7s, 67s, 98s, 65s and we're 45%. Thoughts on that range?
I kinda like the line vs a SS fish. Often we cbet $5 in this spot and get called. And if the fish jams a turn brick for $15.50 into $17 we will have to fold I think...
And then if he reloads and we get an over pair vs him, we can take the same line and just over jam for value or something
I think I'd add a few combos of 55 and maybe 87s. Doubt he's ever folding top pair. Other than that it looks good.
Yeah its an interesting line. Depending on what we think he'll fold it could be pretty profitable. I agree that we're probably folding a lot of turns if he bets. The one thing to consider would be if he bluffs a lot. If so then it might be better to bet normal to give him room to spazz w/ worse draws.
Posted over 1 year ago
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reprisal
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AJhh hand vs the fish, I think I'd prefer a C/R all in then overbet jam or a cbet. Problem with the overbet is its the only way we may convince him to fold a random FD or naked gutshot which would be pretty terrible for us. He probably never folds a pair better than deuces to any line. If he checks back we still have SD value with AJ high. If he bet folds we earn more from his air and we get a read on his tendencies for future hands.
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linkwood
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Great vid as always
What does a guy have to do to get to a vid like this?
Thx. Rick's one of my students. In the future I may offer to pick a random DC member tho or create some sort of challenge where the winner gets a vid review or something.
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KingJames_KJ
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AJhh hand vs the fish, I think I'd prefer a C/R all in then overbet jam or a cbet. Problem with the overbet is its the only way we may convince him to fold a random FD or naked gutshot which would be pretty terrible for us. He probably never folds a pair better than deuces to any line. If he checks back we still have SD value with AJ high. If he bet folds we earn more from his air and we get a read on his tendencies for future hands.
we're in the BB in a BvB situation here
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reprisal
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we're in the BB in a BvB situation here
lol oops, good point. I still think the 3x overbet is problematic cause it may fold out a lot of his weak draws which provide most of our value. If you're worried about the stop 'n go maybe bet 9-10 into 7 on the flop. He definitely doesnt fold any flush draw to that bet, and maybe not even hands like A8, KhJd, 98dd, etc. If he does shove the turn most of the time you can just call needing ~30% equity.
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linkwood
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lol oops, good point. I still think the 3x overbet is problematic cause it may fold out a lot of his weak draws which provide most of our value. If you're worried about the stop 'n go maybe bet 9-10 into 7 on the flop. He definitely doesnt fold any flush draw to that bet, and maybe not even hands like A8, KhJd, 98dd, etc. If he does shove the turn most of the time you can just call needing ~30% equity.
The smaller overbet is definitely an option. I think he definitely doesn't fold out 98d and I doubt any pair.
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CallinUlighT
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linkwood
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spotDEspot
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why are so many of the coaching videos with euro players this gets me so tilted so much harder to understand and honestly to bad for me but i just dont watch them
Euro from Manchester-ish England by the sound of it.....these foreign language people....rofl
Good vid btw - enjoyed the thought processes.
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HighOctane
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linkwood
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Why not just 3 bet bluff 66 from the blinds if 77 is a call? Your decisions will be harder post flop without position but he can't like it either not having initiative since you'll be repping stronger more narrow range than he is opening from the CO.
66 and most pps are def in our 3betting range if we aren't calling. It goes into the 'top of our folding range' category.
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linkwood
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fizzo
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66 and most pps are def in our 3betting range if we aren't calling. It goes into the 'top of our folding range' category.
I will prbably get proven wrong, but I think this is somewhat flawed. The whole reason for 3betting the top of our folding range is because this range has better equity/playability when called than random thrash hands we could 3bet, plus all the Qxs, Kxs, Axs hands contain blockers so we get 4bet/called less often due to the reduced amount of value combos the viallin can have.
So why should we 3bet 22-66 when it has none of the advantages that the other "top of our folding range" hands have? We're just going to be 2-out blufing like 8 out of 9 times postflop. And since we are OOP (as we usually just call 22-66 IP) we won't be able to get to showdown with our small pairs very often. And if we're just going to play really tight postflop then why not just 3bet the bottom of our folding range vs players who fold too much to 3bets or whatever?
Also, at higher stakes you can sometimes 3bet-5bet small pairs vs a wide 4betting range, so it helps to have these hands in your 3betting range, but at 50nl it's just never going to be profitable to do so.
So can anyone enlighten me on this one?
P.S. I don't 3bet 22-66 a lot myself, but maybe someone who does can filter it out in HEM and see how the results compare to other bluff 3bets ...
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shuttle
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AJhh shove on 764hh seems fine, going for higher variance line vs fish is pretty good usually, because if we lose then we are deeper with them and if they lose they can reload.
First off I agree with linkwood, the fish is 100% never folding an overpair here, but the opening size + the flat pre I think discounts a lot of the strong overpairs. In any case a good default assumption is that any overpair or TPTK is not folding.
I stoved it vs 44, 66-99, A7s, 67s, 98s, 65s and we're 45%. Thoughts on that range?
This is probably a fine stacking off range, BUT there's going to be a bunch of folds, which is where the profit comes from making this move. It's not as though we are crushing a bottom pair or 2over + gutter type hand so getting those to fold is great.
If we think the opponent will flat 2 overs to a small bet on the flop then fold them on the turn I think I prefer a small bet/shove brick turn line in this spot and valuetown by betting small on FD completing turns might be a good exploitative play. But other than that I kinda like the overbet just because of the strange stacksizes.
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linkwood
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I will prbably get proven wrong, but I think this is somewhat flawed. The whole reason for 3betting the top of our folding range is because this range has better equity/playability when called than random thrash hands we could 3bet, plus all the Qxs, Kxs, Axs hands contain blockers so we get 4bet/called less often due to the reduced amount of value combos the viallin can have.
So why should we 3bet 22-66 when it has none of the advantages that the other "top of our folding range" hands have? We're just going to be 2-out blufing like 8 out of 9 times postflop. And since we are OOP (as we usually just call 22-66 IP) we won't be able to get to showdown with our small pairs very often. And if we're just going to play really tight postflop then why not just 3bet the bottom of our folding range vs players who fold too much to 3bets or whatever?
Also, at higher stakes you can sometimes 3bet-5bet small pairs vs a wide 4betting range, so it helps to have these hands in your 3betting range, but at 50nl it's just never going to be profitable to do so.
So can anyone enlighten me on this one?
P.S. I don't 3bet 22-66 a lot myself, but maybe someone who does can filter it out in HEM and see how the results compare to other bluff 3bets ...
I def don't advocate 3bet bluffing with these hands 100%. They just should be put into a 3betting range with some frequency. The difference between 22-66 and the bottom of our folding range is that when we hit our hand our hand is much stronger. We should be able to play well enough post flop as well to make it profitable.
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MadAgent
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Gorvacofin
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Time Link to 00:38:56
I prefer a bet/fold with the J8. I think most fish aren't going to bet two pair in this spot, and if they do, it'll be really small, so we lose value from QT/Q9 type hands. Also, a fair amount of his draws (eg Jxdd/Qxdd/QJ) pick up showdown value and might call a river bet, rather than whiffing completely and bluffing.
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duvel
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linkwood
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I prefer a bet/fold with the J8. I think most fish aren't going to bet two pair in this spot, and if they do, it'll be really small, so we lose value from QT/Q9 type hands. Also, a fair amount of his draws (eg Jxdd/Qxdd/QJ) pick up showdown value and might call a river bet, rather than whiffing completely and bluffing.
It really depends on opponent tendencies, but I do see fish bet 2pr here sometimes. Honestly though I think I prefer betting looking at it now, primarily for the reasons you stated. Can't remember what my conclusion was in the video.
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linkwood
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I think calling oop is burning money.
The question is would 3 betting and c-betting most flops not be a good plan vs this guy? Seeing as he has a wide range to call the 3b which will then need to fold on a lot of flops.
I think calling oop is burning money if you don't play well post flop. That's why I don't recommend it for most people.
And yes, 3betting is def a good option vs this type of opponent.
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CallinUlighT
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the ajhh hand i think betting 5 is better he might shuv him self with worst fd or naked 5 (oe) or sometimes mabey pure air cause stacks look good for that.also possible he will fold the turn with a pair when we shuv the turn . dont think he calls the turn with bottom pair ,probably folds mid pair and it possible he would fold 7 after all it is a 3bet pot and u double barrel allin .
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linkwood
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the ajhh hand i think betting 5 is better he might shuv him self with worst fd or naked 5 (oe) or sometimes mabey pure air cause stacks look good for that.also possible he will fold the turn with a pair when we shuv the turn . dont think he calls the turn with bottom pair ,probably folds mid pair and it possible he would fold 7 after all it is a 3bet pot and u double barrel allin .
Its possible that he can fold 7x or pairs but I wouldn't count on it. Betting small may still have merit though depending on what he does with worse draws.
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LuigiVampa
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LuigiVampa
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linkwood
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Top left. Limped pot. Don't you think turn is a bet with ATC? What about the flop?
The flop you could bet. The turn, given all the draws, we'd likely need to bet turn and river to make it profitable. I'm not sure betting just the turn alone would work enough of the time to be good.
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ca all day
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linkwood
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@51:36 with the k10 hand if we think villian would check min raise bluff. what do u think about min reraise?
It really depends on his tendencies. If we think he'll continue bluffing on the turn its probably better to 3bet small, given that we probably fold to most turn bets unimproved. However, I would tend to make it a little bigger than min just because some villains might click call vs a min raise and bluff later, which puts us in an awkward spot.
Since we're unsure about this particular villain I'd tend to just call, given that I don't expect people to continue bluffing often enough.
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ca all day
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linkwood
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after seeing this vid i've started folding my small pocket pairs to a raise when out of position. if theres a raise then a call. is calling with a pocket pair out of the blinds ok now b/c ur getting better pot odds?
Yes. Your pot odds are better, plus its more likely that one of them will also have a strong hand pre or post flop that will pay you off when you hit. The other benefit is that its much easier to fold your hand when you miss since its unlikely you will be able to beat two players.
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ca all day
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linkwood
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what about floating a flop with a pocket pair in pos? does it mostly depend on read and position of opponent?
Yeah. And given that your equity is much lower with these hands your ability to take the pot away on the turn/river needs to be high to make up for all the times you don't improve (i.e. your opponent needs to give up a lot of the time). However, chances are if your float works its because you have the best hand anyways, so it may not even be necessary to float. So they aren't ideal hands for floating.
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Frez
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linkwood
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I think with the Q7s hand the resteal goal can be accomplished with a smaller reraise. 4.50 will work exactly the same won't it?
I'm not sure about exactly the same, but overall yes, I think making it a bit smaller than 5.50 makes sense.
Posted 12 months ago
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