Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by Entity (Mid Stakes)

wohoo

All I have to say is that Rob and Chris are very, very good at poker and teaching. Amazing analysis on every single hand. I was really surprised that the opinions on most of the hands were almost the same, apart from some subtle personality/playstyle differences.

I want to thank you both for doing this. I appreciate it.

The hand against Gus was really awful. I picked a bad spot to make a play for sure. My fold on the turn was mostly because of disgust in myself because I meant to give up and fold the flop when I got 3 bet but I clicked call. I really did not stop to count my pot odds or anything. Really poor play. I appreciate the tough love for sure.

I did learn that getting out of line early in a session will make rob distrust your forever though

SSSweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!! :-) :-) :-)

Finally a chance to look silly on TV ;-)

Wtf 2 vids today and that's only the first 20 mins of play??? Wow, that's really sick imo. That's sooo much value for (no) money that it just blows my mind. you guys. I assume the follow up vid is scheduled for next sunday? Love the format of having two independent vids btw. Very interesting to have two players of your caliber articulating their reasoning on the same hands, especially in the cases where you come to totally different conclusions but each present your case so well that I'm inclined to agree with both of you :-)

Will post some thoughts on individual hands later after I watch this again.

Thx again Rob & Chris and thx to all you guys playing and sweating, especially sushi and PH for organizing this.

P.S.: Rob, plz dont ask me how to pronounce my screenname or what it means. I honestly have no idea.

Some random thoughts on the hands I played:

JJ vs Hypno on KTxy flush board, very first hand
I agree with both of you, pretty standard on my part, I would almost certainly have called down a turn raise.

K8 vs PH's AK
Preflop is pretty light obv and I hated my hand once PH 3bet me preflop. I think my postflop line is OK, but I agree that I should have layed it down on the river. I realized I was beating nothing but an overplayed JJ/AT and came sooooooooo close to mucking it. In all honesty, I probably would have folded had I had one minute to think about it, and maybe I was too afraid of looking silly on camera in case my hand was good. Most likely though my thinking was more along the lines of "I has top pair, Don't Bloat And Fold, CAAAALLLL."
BTW no need to feel bad for bashing me, DD. After all, getting an honest critique of my play is what makes these vids so valueable for us players (that and it was a ton of fun to play in this bad a game against all these friendly folks ;-)). But plz don't call me an "OK TAG". I might just play OK, but hey, I opened K8 UTG, so at least make that LAGTAG :-) At the end of the day, I'm not kicking myself too much for the way I played the hand and am happy that at least I was seriously considering folding the river which imo is a major adjustment in and of itself for a lagtard hu showdown monkey like me.

AK vs gus's 54:
Close river spot imo and looking back at it I probably should payed him off since the flush draw missed. OTOH he has an easy valeubet with anything that has me beat and I don't think he ever expects me to fold anything here. Then again, he would probably fire the last barrel anyway if he had a missed FD, so I guess it's "just a math question" at this point. Needless to say, I'm too lazy to do the math right now.

89 vs Sushi flopping the nuts:
Well played by Sushi. Yeah I understand your guys' arguments for folding my 9 high no draw. Guess I'm just too used to getting bluffed on this board to ever consider folding though.

AA vs deepsquat's 44:
owned imo :-) I'm totally fine with his calldown btw, I'm pretty certain I would play AK and AQ the same.

AQ vs gus's 87:
wtf u folded a pair there??? are you some kind of superuser or have you been playing to much NL lately? ;-)

AQ vs Sushi's Q9:
My ttime to flop the nuts. Too bad Sushi didn't peel. I'm pretty confident I would have won a big pot on a turn Q, river 9.

QT vs Hypno's A8:
Regarding the flop: I think Im going to semibluff this hand in this spot 100% of the time. Such a good board to cr a wide range and I think I do have some fold equity here. Regarding the river: Yes, I was check/folding and yes, it feels good to hear that DD liked that play.

AJ vs nobody:
You nits! So easy to win against people that respect my raises :-)

Q5 vs Hypno's K8:
I really, really hated this spot, but I just felt he way unlikely to be semibluffing here. Just like everybody else at the table, Hypno seemed to be playing pretty straightforwardly (except for that one hand vs gus, at that didnt work out too well for him) and he didn't seem to have to think before raising the turn. Yeah, I'm getting an OK price and hate (read: HATE) folding pairs, but my implied odds are terrible unless he is semibluffing way too much. If I call the turn there's virtually no river card I can fold because I dont have the slightest clue which draws he can have here. That said, I felt strongly that he wasnt semibluffing at all and was pretty confident in my fold. Plz dont tell anyone how easy it is too run me over :-)

J9o vs Sushi's 85:
Another classic BS spot, at least in HUHU. Was briefly considering spewing here, but wisely refrained from doing so.

Hey Rob, thanks much for doing the commentary! I just finished watching this and can't wait to watch DD's half. I'll have more to contribute after I finish both sides (and possibly re-watch them tomorrow), but for now I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate all your time and effort on this.

Thanks Rob, i really enjoyed your in-depth analysis. Great Job!!

okOk, so i have a complicated (atleast i think it is) question primarily for Rob, but feel free to respond. A spot came up in the video where the button raised, and the BB defended 58s i think it was. Flop came down AK2 with a flushdraw, which the BB checkraised, and you started talking about balance in this spot. Are you suggesting that a lag should be checkraising with almost everything that were continuing with on this board? Be that QJ/Q10/45/any flushdraw/top pairs/maybe even strong kings? For me the problem is this, im never peeling this flop with nothing, and im mostly checkraising my top pairs and good kings/flushdraws, sometimes the 45 if i defended it and sometimes J10 type stuff. With almost any king here and hands like JQ/Q10 i feel there is almost more value in just check-calling flop and turn, simply because there is not a whole lot that pays you off, and making a decision on the river based on opponent tendensies and obv board texture. This post turned into a ramble and im surely off track with my question, but i think this is a difficult spot to balance well seeing that i dont really peel here alot.. Thoughts?

okOk, so i have a complicated (atleast i think it is) question primarily for Rob, but feel free to respond. A spot came up in the video where the button raised, and the BB defended 58s i think it was. Flop came down AK2 with a flushdraw, which the BB checkraised, and you started talking about balance in this spot. Are you suggesting that a lag should be checkraising with almost everything that were continuing with on this board? Be that QJ/Q10/45/any flushdraw/top pairs/maybe even strong kings? For me the problem is this, im never peeling this flop with nothing, and im mostly checkraising my top pairs and good kings/flushdraws, sometimes the 45 if i defended it and sometimes J10 type stuff. With almost any king here and hands like JQ/Q10 i feel there is almost more value in just check-calling flop and turn, simply because there is not a whole lot that pays you off, and making a decision on the river based on opponent tendensies and obv board texture. This post turned into a ramble and im surely off track with my question, but i think this is a difficult spot to balance well seeing that i dont really peel here alot.. Thoughts?

I think this is a very good question. In general I would say my CRing range on that flop is flush draws, Ax, good Kx hands. I'd probably "peel" with 33-QQ, and the gutshots, and 2x, and with some of those, I'd be calling a turn bet unimproved and possibly showing down. Ooh just realized I'll have weak kings too which are sort of obvious call downs vs LAGgy guys who are capable of 3 barreling.

Exactly, that was just my point. I too will atleast call twice with Kx and alot of the PP`s that i chose to slowplay preflop, obviously this depends on board texture. But shouldnt a decent player recognize your flop call on a board like this to be somewhat showdownbound? I mean it would be very unlikely and horrible to peel here with j9s with backdoor flushdraw and things like that (given that we CR`d the flop), and not that good of a second barrel spot imo.

Rob after watching your side of the vid I think we disagreed pretty firmly in the hand where Pygmy gets his aces cracked. The board was like T842Q, I think BB can CR river with QJ and Q9 often enough to pay this off. In your analysis you completely ignored the possibility BB is CRing a worse hand for "value" which I harped on in my audio. Otherwise stop being so nice to these guys watch mine again where I rip them apart!

Rob after watching your side of the vid I think we disagreed pretty firmly in the hand where Pygmy gets his aces cracked. The board was like T842Q, I think BB can CR river with QJ and Q9 often enough to pay this off. In your analysis you completely ignored the possibility BB is CRing a worse hand for "value" which I harped on in my audio. Otherwise stop being so nice to these guys watch mine again where I rip them apart!

I didn't think (and still don't think) that Hypnotic is checkraising the flop with a gutter, then bet-calling with it when the flush draw comes in, then checkraising the river when he pairs for value. He's not targeting much other than ATs and KTs specifically since I think Pygmy would be folding offsuit Tx hands preflop UTG. And while I had seen Jordan get out of line on earlier streets, I hadn't seen him get horribly out of line on the river and that's exactly what I think he'd need to be doing there for a bet-call on the river to be ok. That said, I think I'd make the call a fair amount of the time but I'm not sure it's a good call at all, and I definitely wouldn't try hard to defend it analytically.

Rob

Some random thoughts on the hands I played:

AK vs gus's 54:
Close river spot imo and looking back at it I probably should payed him off since the flush draw missed. OTOH he has an easy valeubet with anything that has me beat and I don't think he ever expects me to fold anything here. Then again, he would probably fire the last barrel anyway if he had a missed FD, so I guess it's "just a math question" at this point. Needless to say, I'm too lazy to do the math right now.

- i would have called down AK here ...

AQ vs gus's 87:
wtf u folded a pair there??? are you some kind of superuser or have you been playing to much NL lately? ;-)

- thanks to DD for his comment on balancing never realy noticed that myself but ill have an eye on that from now on.
ok so why did i fold a pair here ... to my mind the Q and J are crushing his openraising range from utg and i realy had the feeling that im not good here. but i thought about raising a non broadway turn here. in retrospect the fold is a bit weak + the missed raise on flop but i realy had the feeling that im not good here.

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- my QJs agains Hypnotic on 575 flop BU vs BB

ok this hand is a spew i know but to my mind it was a very good board for him to play back at me with any2 because i was very aggressive during the last hands ... so i tried to represent an overpair here. but i agree its a spew and very very marginal.

- my T9o vs Skeletor BU vs BB

entity got the point i was thinking about ... check to induce a bet on the river ... DD doesnt like this line as i remember. is it something style based or just to marginal overall. i was very sure i had turned the nutz here agains skeletor so i decidet to do something ive learned from dc vids ... but i agree the raise on the river is overplayed and i NEVER thought about what to do if i get 3bet there ... puh good point entity! thx a lot

I love this format!! Players are very advanced though... the leveling / re-leveling / bluffing gets a little confusing.
It would be cool to see a game like this with more straightforward/beginning players imo

I love this format!! Players are very advanced though... the leveling / re-leveling / bluffing gets a little confusing.
It would be cool to see a game like this with more straightforward/beginning players imo

It's funny how these thoughts are always so relative to the person's own experience. Like I think its totally understandable you see this homegame episode and think those guys play pretty aggro, with lots of bluffing, and I felt like it was pretty passive and straightforward

I suppose rounding up some like 50c/1 or lower players to play in a nano-stakes homegame would be a bit different, though personally I'd probably be too tilted to do the commentary hehe.

- my QJs agains Hypnotic on 575 flop BU vs BB

ok this hand is a spew i know but to my mind it was a very good board for him to play back at me with any2 because i was very aggressive during the last hands ... so i tried to represent an overpair here. but i agree its a spew and very very marginal.

What is interesting here is that I thought it was a good board to play back on, and you thought it was a good board for me to play back on as well. We must be looking for the wrong spots then because Chris and Rob both really disliked it.

What is interesting here is that I thought it was a good board to play back on, and you thought it was a good board for me to play back on as well. We must be looking for the wrong spots then because Chris and Rob both really disliked it.

Hehe, this is just a "what level are you on" thing. I feel like the "average TAG" at these stakes is just aggro enough to want to fight for a few pots, and almost invariably choose a paired dry board, where they know their opponent is unlikely to have much.

One thing you have to realize about poker in general is just how everything is so relative. What's a great board texture and great play vs one guy or at one level of stakes is a completely transparent and fishy idea at the next level of complexity.

I was really surprised that the opinions on most of the hands were almost the same, apart from some subtle personality/playstyle differences.

Further confirming my oft-repeated assertion that Rob and Chris play alike 100% of the time. I swear, if I hadn't heard each of them speak I'd think they were the same person with one overly-elaborate gimmick account to split their ~5k post count.

~6:00 fnupple's K8s UTG vs my AK in the SB
I agree fnupple can fold the river here since every hand I could hold got there. At the same time it's a weird psychological spot because you know you'll see the cards later either way, which (oddly) seems to induce people to call and make doubly-sure they're not being bluffed. Maybe we all just want to avoid being shown a bluff.

~8:45 gus OTB with A8o vs my CO open of KTo
Really like your 3-bet here gus. I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you fire the turn again (not saying I disagree, just want to hear it from you).

~10:30 Hypnotic defends A8o in the BB vs Deeps' BTN open of K7o.
So Jordan, I want to hear from you now - why did you c/r the flop? This is one of a handful of hands where I think HUHU play may have been an influence (more on that later).

~12:35 my BB K6s vs Hypnotic's SB open of K6s
Freerolling you SO hard on the flop 52%/48%. You probably should ship me like 8 cents. Instead it tilts me so hard that you got the odd $0.25 since you were more OOP (so of the $0.75 rake you lost a quarter and I lost two). More seriously I actually really like a donk here to prevent me from taking a free card with my bazillion draws on the 9639 turn (54, 75, 87,T7, T8, overcard draw, etc.).

~13:20 fnupple's AK UTG versus gus BB defend of 54o
I agree AK should call here. fnupple, would you fold to a river ?

~15:45 Deep's 74s in the BB versus my KJo in the CO
I agree this is a defend unless Deep thought I was playing super snug at the time, which may have been how it looked to him.

~17:00 fnupple's 98o OTB versus sushis's ATo in the BB
This is the second hand where I believe we see the influence of HUHU play (again, more on that at the end).

~20:00 Deep's 44 OTB versus fnupple's AA in the CO
Love the way both player's did it and can't see Deep folding fours here.

~21:50 gus 87o BB defense versus fnupple with AQ UTG
I can't see any way gus can fold a pair on the turn here unless he's a superuser.

~27:00 gus QJs BB versus Hypnotic Q4s OTB
wtf spew? I totally don't know what happened in this hand and I was pretty sure it was a repeat of a hand from the first Home Game where Jordan made a straight flush on Amaryllis' bottom full house on a board that was eerily similar to this one.

~44:20 lol Entity sympathizing for my bad cards right before I get my aces cracked (which I assume he didn't know was coming).

~53:45 Hypnotic KJs in the BB versus sushi KJo in the SB and Deep OTB with a hand I don't remember
Weird. Reminiscent of the first Home Game also where Jordan has KTs and basically got stuck between my AJs in the BB and bassline OTB with AQ (bassline flops top pair, I have a super draw, hit on the end and Jordan makes two pair while bassline inexplicably raises the river).

Okay, the HUHU thing - so Hypnotic and fnupple are the two HUHU players at the table. I think this leads them to play a few spots just slightly differently. On the hand where sushi flops trip aces and fnupple peels a c/r with 9 high I think this is pretty evident and fnupple has more or less said as much. To a lesser extent I would cite the K8s versus AK hand where we fnupple can't beat any hand in my range on the river.

There were also 2 hands Hypnotic was in that caught my eye. The first is the hand at ~10:30 where Jordan c/r's ace high. I suspect you're making this play with ace high as the best hand? And the second is of course the QJs vs Q4s spew versus gus where you both thought the other was just playing back (to be fair you were both right).

So I don't know how well I can express my thoughts at this time, but I'm generally wondering if your guy's HUHU experience may lead you to play a few spots slightly differently. For example, do you think the fact that ranges and hand strength are shifted in HUHU influences your play in these or other spots?

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the comments.

~10:30 Hypnotic defends A8o in the BB vs Deeps' BTN open of K7o.
So Jordan, I want to hear from you now - why did you c/r the flop? This is one of a handful of hands where I think HUHU play may have been an influence (more on that later).

Honestly, I don't really like the c/r very much. However, it was for value because I liked my hand quite a bit on this flop. However, as mentioned it is a small pot, I am sticking my neck out when behind, and forcing out worse hands who will bluff in a small pot. When I call pre-flop here I like a more passive line. I don't think it is a huge mistake to raise tbh, but there is more value to be had when I don't force out a worse hand. Also, it is not a tragedy to have a 6 outer get there for the villain in a small pot. Even HUHU i think its better played passively when I don't 3bet this pre flop. I will 3bet A8o a fair amount of the time though.

~12:35 my BB K6s vs Hypnotic's SB open of K6s
Freerolling you SO hard on the flop 52%/48%. You probably should ship me like 8 cents. Instead it tilts me so hard that you got the odd $0.25 since you were more OOP (so of the $0.75 rake you lost a quarter and I lost two). More seriously I actually really like a donk here to prevent me from taking a free card with my bazillion draws on the 9639 turn (54, 75, 87,T7, T8, overcard draw, etc.).

I think that HUHU play influenced me a lot on this hand to be honest. I check raised the turn for value because I have a good 6, I am used to people raising the turn with top pair yet semi bluffing the flop aggressively when they have draws, over cards, air, anything. Furthermore, a 3 would also raise the flop often enough and just got counterfeited. Also, when board pairs I am really liking my hand and kicker since I can discount a 9 a little more.

I like the a turn donk here as well. However, I am just not used to people ever taking free cards with a strong draw so it is not a line I employ very often. Chuck has actually been trying to help me find spots to donk turns, but it is mostly because we want to bet-3 bet rather than just to prevent getting free carded.

Most people did not like my c/r here, but the above was what I was thinking when I did it be it right or wrong.

~27:00 gus QJs BB versus Hypnotic Q4s OTB
wtf spew? I totally don't know what happened in this hand and I was pretty sure it was a repeat of a hand from the first Home Game where Jordan made a straight flush on Amaryllis' bottom full house on a board that was eerily similar to this one.

~53:45 Hypnotic KJs in the BB versus sushi KJo in the SB and Deep OTB with a hand I don't remember
Weird. Reminiscent of the first Home Game also where Jordan has KTs and basically got stuck between my AJs in the BB and bassline OTB with AQ (bassline flops top pair, I have a super draw, hit on the end and Jordan makes two pair while bassline inexplicably raises the river).

I seem to get myself in a lot of bad spots in these things. In my defense, both times I have played after being up all night playing in my regular games. The time difference had me playing on zero sleep

~44:20 lol Entity sympathizing for my bad cards right before I get my aces cracked (which I assume he didn't know was coming).

Sorry! I find the different thoughts on the river play to be interesting though.

So I don't know how well I can express my thoughts at this time, but I'm generally wondering if your guy's HUHU experience may lead you to play a few spots slightly differently. For example, do you think the fact that ranges and hand strength are shifted in HUHU influences your play in these or other spots?

Good point, Pygmy. The answer to your question is most definitely yes. The vast majority of playing experience is from HUHU and there's no denying that this has a major impact on my 6max game. I'm still struggling with adjusting to the tighter ranges in 6max. The two hands of mine you mentioned make good examples of that.
If the K8 vs AK hand against you were HUHU i would never even think about folding the river and folding there would be a huge mistake against just about everyone imo. I was aware of the fact that I'm not beating much of anything, but in the end folding TP just felt too gross.
As to the hand vs sushi: As said earlier, this is such a common BS spot in HUHU (especially after sushi just called preflop) that in all honesty I was more likely to bluffraise a blank turn than to muck on the flop. Of course in a 6max game it's much less likely that sushi is just full of it here (primarily because my 6max opening range has so much more SD value than my usual ~ATC HU range, making it less appealing for him to bluff). I guess this means I can safely fold a hand like 98 on this flop. But I still think I should be peeling pretty widely here, just what exactly my peeling range should be is beyond me atm.

I think that HUHU play influenced me a lot on this hand to be honest.

Hypnotic, I think that's OK. After all, you were playing HUHU this hand (with a weird blind structure, but still.)

Thanks guys. Good responses. I know I wasn't totally able to articulate my point about HUHU play as well as I wanted to, but it seems clear you both grasped what I was getting at anyway.

I love this format!! Players are very advanced though... the leveling / re-leveling / bluffing gets a little confusing.
It would be cool to see a game like this with more straightforward/beginning players imo

Adrienne, based only on the first 20 minutes I would actually tend to agree with DeathDonkey and say was pretty straightforward. I don't know whether or not the rest of the game will be the same or not as I only knew my cards and the actions before/after me. I suspect play may get a little more advanced (N.B. mine will NOT) as during this video we're probably all kind of trying to feel each other out. Later on we'll have some established history and reads to utilize.

And that's not at all meant to say, 'oh I'm above the level x play that went on in this video,' it's more that I think there are a number of psychological factors at work here that may alter play at times. Everyone is probably a little bit tentative about stepping out of line in the wrong spot and getting verbally castrated by the DC reviewer (see Q4s vs QJs bluff and re-bluff hand) or getting completely owned on camera. We probably all play at least a slightly different game off camera and at tables where we probably don't suspect we're surrounded by good thinking TAGs.

Sorry guys, Ive been on skiing holiday. Will watch and comment tomorrow. Hopefully you are not through discussing .

Thanks Rob ad Chris for the commnentary! The concept seems cool!

~8:45 gus OTB with A8o vs my CO open of KTo
Really like your 3-bet here gus. I'd like to hear your thoughts on why you fire the turn again (not saying I disagree, just want to hear it from you).

the 3bet in that spot is fairly standard for me. in heads up situations im very inclined to fire the turn again in position because i expect the most opponents to give action on the flop since they are oop and its possible that i check the turn behind. and i represent a somewhat good hand so the turn card hits my range pretty well?

~21:50 gus 87o BB defense versus fnupple with AQ UTG
I can't see any way gus can fold a pair on the turn here unless he's a superuser.

hmm ...
what can i say .. uhmm

i jsut recognized that i missed the flop raise with just a single overcard to my pair ... so the turn was the Q and i think that card + the J hits his UTG range pretty pretty well. so i foldet because i realy felt like im beat here.

and i represent a somewhat good hand so the turn card hits my range pretty well?

I don't think representation matters so much because you simply rate to have the best hand so much -- pretty much just a standard valuebet. That said, if you think that what you're representing is stronger than A8o there, I hope that enters into your thought process when you do get checkraised on that turn and led into on the river.

Rob

ok ...post deleted ;D

interesting spott entity... so i thought about foldin to a c/r on the turn as i played it ... what do u think about that?

I'd call a turn c/r and fold to a river bet, I don't think he has AQ often enough for you to consider your hand "only" a gutshot, so I'd guess you have like 6+ weighted outs and in a pot that big you can't fold. Keep in mind the turn brings two flushdraws so if you think he can semibluff c/r the turn with a wide enough range (I don't think he would, but it's more important what you think in the moment), then you should consider showing down on boards that don't complete those draws.

Rob