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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (Mid Stakes)

Time Link to 00:04:03

What do you think about bluffraising the River here?
Since that Hand is probably right at the bottom of our range here and since there are so many draws coming in I like it to get hands like KT, AK,K9, T9 to fold . Not sure if that might not be enough Kombos tho and idf he even folds these hands

Time Link to 00:09:07

Would you fold a Hand like A8o or A9o or QJo preflop?
Since most likely your dominated by one player and the other one has a PP. ANd sometimes one has AK-AJ and the other one a high PP and your crushed.

Time Link to 00:14:49

Is calling in the SB with 85o vs a MP2 limper and a pretty aggro guy in teh BB standard for you?
I think its too weak to call preflop especially keeping in mind that BB is pretty aggro and therefore will either raise quite a bit preflop or bets the flop at least a fair percentage of the time.

However if we are even c/c c/f a pair, what hands can we credibly peel on the flop and not fold on the turn ( under the assumptions that we're donking or c/r our vast majority of Kx hands or better) and thinking that BB would raise hands like KT-AK, probably any PP >55. SO I think a CD on blanks would be better to prevent Villain from having an easy time just betting twice ( ok not sure if he'll find out about that)

Would you still c/c if BB checks and MP2 bets or would you c/r instead?

Time Link to 00:18:51

So you're saying your checking any hand on that Turn?
Don't you think that betting the Turn might be better to induce bluffraises on the A? ( sure I know it's player dependant but against a default somewhat aggro reg)
Or do you think that this does'nt outweight the resulting difficulties to tweak our range that our check isnt' a c/f and our bet isn't only a b/3bet?

Time Link to 00:22:50

would you therefore also raise with a PP and then check behind the Turn a decent amount of time ( since Villain then is most liekly to either c/r with an Ax or to fold with 6outer which might call a riverbet)?
or do yo think that getting a 6 outer to fold is better than giving a freecard with the intension to call every River?

You are probably going to "balance" that play by also raising with KQ etc as a "bluffcatcher" to check the turn and call any River, right?

Time Link to 00:30:12

you say that bluffraising would be a bad timing. But our perceived range improves pretty often on the Turn. Most of teh time me make a flush and he could fold Pairs without a Spade.
Sure we would raise most of our Ax and Kx hands preflop so we don't have ´the nut or 2nd nutflush that often but still we have the Qsx and Jsx flush in our range.

what would you do with the Asx and Ksx here? would you call the turn to raise the river or prefer raising directly? Is there abig difference between Asx and say Ksx, Qsx or Jsx?
Or let me put it that way what flush would you need to 3bet the Turn (River) in Sb's shoes?

Time Link to 00:31:58

My Problem with call call fold is that SB might make a thin Vbet oop with sth like 88-JJ and makes us fold a better hand.
Additionally he limped before so he might not be a rational player so I dislike folding KK. Or maybe I'm jus ta SD-Monkey

What do you think about bluffraising the River here?
Since that Hand is probably right at the bottom of our range here and since there are so many draws coming in I like it to get hands like KT, AK,K9, T9 to fold . Not sure if that might not be enough Kombos tho and idf he even folds these hands

In general i dont think this is that good of an idea. In theory sure, but youre asking for him to fold a king getting like 9:1, not to mention that that particular river just smacks his entire semibluffing range.

Would you fold a Hand like A8o or A9o or QJo preflop?
Since most likely your dominated by one player and the other one has a PP. ANd sometimes one has AK-AJ and the other one a high PP and your crushed.

I dont open A8o utg and rarely A9o, and if i did open A9o it would be for almost the sole purpose of playing a pot against either of the blinds, in which case i wouldnt fold even if im likely to be dominated. Would probably play pretty cautiosly.

Is calling in the SB with 85o vs a MP2 limper and a pretty aggro guy in teh BB standard for you?
I think its too weak to call preflop especially keeping in mind that BB is pretty aggro and therefore will either raise quite a bit preflop or bets the flop at least a fair percentage of the time.

However if we are even c/c c/f a pair, what hands can we credibly peel on the flop and not fold on the turn ( under the assumptions that we're donking or c/r our vast majority of Kx hands or better) and thinking that BB would raise hands like KT-AK, probably any PP >55. SO I think a CD on blanks would be better to prevent Villain from having an easy time just betting twice ( ok not sure if he'll find out about that)

Would you still c/c if BB checks and MP2 bets or would you c/r instead?

Not sure if you misread the action or what, but if its the hand on the river i defended for 1 raise with 34s vs utg raise and an aggro player iso`ed in late position, in which case i would play tons of suited and connected hands. 85o would be right on the cusp i guess, i would always fold 84o and always call 86o, but given that i know the raiser to be very aggressive and sd bound and people who limp utg ususally arent that good, i dont have a problem defending. Also the utg player had shown to be pretty passive and honest so far, meaning i could probably use my relative position and shut him out of the flops i liked with a cr, also knowing that the preflop raiser always c-bets 3handed.

Time Link to 00:33:48

I like raising the flop here aswell (especially since we won't turn a bluffcatcher into a bluff like it might look on the first sight). I'm just not sure how to preoceed on future streets if SB folds and we're HU against BB, would you check back alot of turn ( any Turn except a 4,5,7,9) ? and what would you do on an A? b/ca since villain most likely donked out with an A or just b/ca since it's the only Ax < than two pair that can call down or do you think about checking the turn and calling any river ( or maybe even raising the river against a pair).


What do you think Villain should do on an A holding an A: donking out or c/r?

So you're saying your checking any hand on that Turn?
Don't you think that betting the Turn might be better to induce bluffraises on the A? ( sure I know it's player dependant but against a default somewhat aggro reg)
Or do you think that this does'nt outweight the resulting difficulties to tweak our range that our check isnt' a c/f and our bet isn't only a b/3bet?

Not checking every hand on that turn, but its a good balance play with some value hands, since its a card we should check with alot of our range because its just so likely to hit our opponents range. So the hands that DD mentioned in the video are great candidates for sometimes checkraising again, simply because a) some villains might blind bet here with hands that dont have an ace but still beats our 4 high (like QJ KT etc), and b) not everybody raises every Ax combo on this turn when we bet. Ofcourse if you know that your opponent raises every single top pair and some flopped slowplayes no matter what, then you should happily bet looking to 3bet with all your value hands. But thats when i gets tricky what to do with your 89s and 45s etc, which is why checkraising is a great mixup play sometimes. Im not so sure that all too many people bluffraise this spot either.

would you therefore also raise with a PP and then check behind the Turn a decent amount of time ( since Villain then is most liekly to either c/r with an Ax or to fold with 6outer which might call a riverbet)?
or do yo think that getting a 6 outer to fold is better than giving a freecard with the intension to call every River?

You are probably going to "balance" that play by also raising with KQ etc as a "bluffcatcher" to check the turn and call any River, right?

I think youre misunderstanding the concept here. When we have a bluffcatching type of hand like a medium pp and strong highcard hands like KQ in position here, we shouldnt be raising since our primary target with those hands on this kind of board would be to induce bluffs from our opponent. We could/possibly should raise alot of our strong value hands along with some weak backdoor semibluffs, hands like any ace or three, and stuff like 45s, 46s, 56s, hands that have little equity now but can continue semibluffing if we catch something on the turn. When we play some of our hands like that it becomes pretty hard for our opponent to continue from the flop if he has something like QT, KJs or whatever. Most people just blindly call the flop raise because wtf how can anybody raise something on this board, and then they fold ALOT of turns. This isnt really the type of board that we should be floating in position simply because its so easy to be drawing almost dead to any Ax, and we will so often just get barreled on the turn anyway.

What to do when we`re out of position is something else, i think like DD said we should be checking ALOT of our range on the turn when he does call the flop.

you say that bluffraising would be a bad timing. But our perceived range improves pretty often on the Turn. Most of teh time me make a flush and he could fold Pairs without a Spade.
Sure we would raise most of our Ax and Kx hands preflop so we don't have ´the nut or 2nd nutflush that often but still we have the Qsx and Jsx flush in our range.

what would you do with the Asx and Ksx here? would you call the turn to raise the river or prefer raising directly? Is there abig difference between Asx and say Ksx, Qsx or Jsx?
Or let me put it that way what flush would you need to 3bet the Turn (River) in Sb's shoes?

I dont care that much for bluffraising this board. Im going to be semibluffraising alot of my 1 spade hands on the flop and alot of my pairs as well, and when some passive straight forward guy bets twice on this kind of board im pretty happy just to let him have it. If youre gonna bluffraise every single time the board gets scary, its going to get very expensive and get you very little credit and it would make your bluffcatching range almost equal to nothing.

In general i dont think this is that good of an idea. In theory sure, but youre asking for him to fold a king getting like 9:1, not to mention that that particular river just smacks his entire semibluffing range.

I actually think a bluff raise there isn't too bad against a good player, since they will be less scared to value bet Kx, and our hand is close to the ideal candidate (not quite good enough to call down). but you are right that in practice people have it a lot and call a lot

I dont open A8o utg and rarely A9o, and if i did open A9o it would be for almost the sole purpose of playing a pot against either of the blinds, in which case i wouldnt fold even if im likely to be dominated. Would probably play pretty cautiosly.

I'd probably fold A9o for 2 more and call with QJ, but I think its splitting hairs, I think its fine if you never fold for 2 more with any UTG range hands, but that you sometimes have to do it in full ring or when you open from later position against passive type of players who 3 bet and cap and you have like K7o and stuff

Not sure if you misread the action or what, but if its the hand on the river i defended for 1 raise with 34s vs utg raise and an aggro player iso`ed in late position, in which case i would play tons of suited and connected hands. 85o would be right on the cusp i guess, i would always fold 84o and always call 86o, but given that i know the raiser to be very aggressive and sd bound and people who limp utg ususally arent that good, i dont have a problem defending. Also the utg player had shown to be pretty passive and honest so far, meaning i could probably use my relative position and shut him out of the flops i liked with a cr, also knowing that the preflop raiser always c-bets 3handed.

I think he was asking about completing from the small blind with 85o when there was a limper...I'd always complete it in 1:2 structure, limpers are bad at poker, we want to play pots with them, 85o isn't much but its not total trash either

Really good posts on the other questions psychobingo, I agree with them 100%

I actually think a bluff raise there isn't too bad against a good player, since they will be less scared to value bet Kx, and our hand is close to the ideal candidate (not quite good enough to call down). but you are right that in practice people have it a lot and call a lot

Well yeah against a top mid/highstakes player that i respect and that i feel share that respect for my game i could see myself trying to raise as this would be pretty much the exact bottom of my calldown range (except for maybe A10 and possibly 99 against some people), and against this type of player we can expect him to have something like AK and AA since a good bit of grinders tend to not 3bet those from the BB against early position opens, but against this player who i have marked as not very good and with little history i just see it as wasting two bets when all the draws comes in. Theres something else to consider too, my range for bet-calling and just calling the turn then to raise this particular river is pretty damn narrow, its looking something like KJ, JJ, weak ace high flushdraws and maybe 99. Probably raising every Qx combo, AA/AJ/1010 etc simply because the board is super wet and since its highcardheavy and i raised in early position and he still checkraises, im expecting him to either have good enough to pay off or have a draw, in either case i would want to get that raise in on the turn.

I'd probably fold A9o for 2 more and call with QJ, but I think its splitting hairs, I think its fine if you never fold for 2 more with any UTG range hands, but that you sometimes have to do it in full ring or when you open from later position against passive type of players who 3 bet and cap and you have like K7o and stuff

I also think it has to be pretty close either way, but if i opened A9o utg it probably had something to do with one of the blinds in which case i still would want to be in there even though its not looking stellar when it gets capped. Obviously the scenario you describe i sometimes fold, especially weak Ax and Kx hands against tighter players, but tbh its not really too often.

I think he was asking about completing from the small blind with 85o when there was a limper...I'd always complete it in 1:2 structure, limpers are bad at poker, we want to play pots with them, 85o isn't much but its not total trash either

Yeah totally agree with this. Could consider folding it in say a 5-10 game with 2-5 blind structure, but even then i think i would want to see a flop with the limper.

nice vid

nice vid

+1

I almost feel out of touch watching this stuff

Its been a long time since i`ve played lhe myself, not really sure if im in touch myself: anymore. Turned into a losing player..

very good vid

Time Link to 00:07:29

Even if we can "exploit" our opponent by fast playing the flop, I'm not sure that makes us the most money against his range.

If I give villain a range of AJs+, AQo+,KQs & 99+ and assume he puts in more action with AJ+ when we raise the flop, villain still has about 2/3 of his range that we prefer to induce another turn barrel from.

Also, when we raise the flop, villain generally puts in between 3.5-4BB on the flop & turn (either B/3-b flop B/C or B/C flop C/R/C) with his big hands. However, if we delay to the turn, villain actually will probably put in about 4.5BB with almost his same value range (B flop B/3-b/C).

Given all this, I think delaying to the turn is actually the much more +EV spot given his range and how he plays it post.

Time Link to 00:13:13

I also like just Ch/Folding the flop with 85 for all the reason DD mentions. I think if we call the flop, it has to be with the intention of calling down on blank turn/rivers because our read of the BB is he can have a lot of air/draws. I don't think very many opponents bet this flop, then give up on a brick turn once they are heads up in position.

I dont care that much for bluffraising this board. Im going to be semibluffraising alot of my 1 spade hands on the flop and alot of my pairs as well, and when some passive straight forward guy bets twice on this kind of board im pretty happy just to let him have it. If youre gonna bluffraise every single time the board gets scary, its going to get very expensive and get you very little credit and it would make your bluffcatching range almost equal to nothing.

I think we probably should have a bluffing range in this spot on the turn, although I agree we shouldn't be bluffing this board too often. Even just theoretically, I'm trying to come up with an ideal hand to bluff this turn. I don't think I have a hand worse than bottom pair on this turn after I call the flop. I guess Q2-A2 might be ideal bluffing candidates? given we may improve to TP and be good a small % on the river

My Problem with call call fold is that SB might make a thin Vbet oop with sth like 88-JJ and makes us fold a better hand.
Additionally he limped before so he might not be a rational player so I dislike folding KK. Or maybe I'm jus ta SD-Monkey

(Time 31:58 ) I tend to agree with this. I like the call call fold line much more with say 99-TT.

Time Link to 00:33:21

How close is this turn peel? I think we're getting about correct odds to peel, but we're not closing the action. Lets assume SB isn't too weak passive post and will C/R Jx on the turn here.

I also think a river fold is good. I just don't think we're ahead very often at this point on the river.

Even if we can "exploit" our opponent by fast playing the flop, I'm not sure that makes us the most money against his range.

If I give villain a range of AJs+, AQo+,KQs & 99+ and assume he puts in more action with AJ+ when we raise the flop, villain still has about 2/3 of his range that we prefer to induce another turn barrel from.

Also, when we raise the flop, villain generally puts in between 3.5-4BB on the flop & turn (either B/3-b flop B/C or B/C flop C/R/C) with his big hands. However, if we delay to the turn, villain actually will probably put in about 4.5BB with almost his same value range (B flop B/3-b/C).

Given all this, I think delaying to the turn is actually the much more +EV spot given his range and how he plays it post.

Well, against a poorer playing opponent like this one, reads will trump alot of your assumptions.
If he always b3b`s the flop with AJ+, then we should always raise-call-raise the turn. If he always bet-calls-checkraises the turn with that same range, then we should raise the flop as well. If he goes into check/call mode on the turn with unimproved overcards, then we should also raise the flop.

Not every fish will b3b TPTK on a turncard thats good for our hand. Against a opponent we assume to be solid or atleast better, then i think waiting to the turn is better for our metagame, but even then its not out of the question to raise the flop. After all this isnt really a flop that im peeling with my entire 3betting range.

I also like just Ch/Folding the flop with 85 for all the reason DD mentions. I think if we call the flop, it has to be with the intention of calling down on blank turn/rivers because our read of the BB is he can have a lot of air/draws. I don't think very many opponents bet this flop, then give up on a brick turn once they are heads up in position.

Yeah, in hindsight i agree with that this probably just should be a fold. Small pot, out of position and not many good turn/river combinations for my hand.

Well, against a poorer playing opponent like this one, reads will trump alot of your assumptions.
If he always b3b`s the flop with AJ+, then we should always raise-call-raise the turn. If he always bet-calls-checkraises the turn with that same range, then we should raise the flop as well. If he goes into check/call mode on the turn with unimproved overcards, then we should also raise the flop.

Not every fish will b3b TPTK on a turncard thats good for our hand. Against a opponent we assume to be solid or atleast better, then i think waiting to the turn is better for our metagame, but even then its not out of the question to raise the flop. After all this isnt really a flop that im peeling with my entire 3betting range.

I think its probably fair to assume most villain's won't B/3-b TPTK vs a delay to turn line, but I still think its fair to assume they'll B/3-b their overpairs, at least on most turns that are relatively safe looking. So were only missing value from a relatively small portion of his flop fast play range. I agree that if a villain goes into Ch/C mode on the turn with overs, then we should fast play the flop, but I think in general its more likely they'll 2 barrel the turn with most of their range when they cap pre.

After all this isnt really a flop that im peeling with my entire 3betting range.

I don't really agree with this. Beside a few Ax hands that you might fold the flop with immediately, I think your continuing on this flop with a lot of your range, at least I am.

How close is this turn peel? I think we're getting about correct odds to peel, but we're not closing the action. Lets assume SB isn't too weak passive post and will C/R Jx on the turn here.

I also think a river fold is good. I just don't think we're ahead very often at this point on the river.

I have/had history against this play, which explains my play in this hand. He just has so many hands that he would play this way that i can beat.

I think its probably fair to assume most villain's won't B/3-b TPTK vs a delay to turn line, but I still think its fair to assume they'll B/3-b their overpairs, at least on most turns that are relatively safe looking. So were only missing value from a relatively small portion of his flop fast play range. I agree that if a villain goes into Ch/C mode on the turn with overs, then we should fast play the flop, but I think in general its more likely they'll 2 barrel the turn with most of their range when they cap pre.



I don't really agree with this. Beside a few Ax hands that you might fold the flop with immediately, I think your continuing on this flop with a lot of your range, at least I am.

Well yeah after thinking about it a little bit i guess this is a flop i would continue on a pretty decent amount, but i still dont mind fastplaying against some player types. Obviously my standard is to delay until the turn, which i believe is what happened in the video.

Turned into a losing player..

Would be interested to know what kind of data you used to come into that conclusion.

Would be interested to know what kind of data you used to come into that conclusion.

330k hands from last January until today. Granted i havent played much LHE the last 6 months or so, if any. But still. Breakeven player at 10-20 (big sample), 1.40bb/100 loser at 5/10 (bigger sample), almost 2bb/100 @15-30 for around 33k hands and a series of runbad sessions @ 30-60 and a tiny portion 50-100.

Ok, thanks...seems like a large sample. If that's mainly from the early months of the year, you were putting in some huge volume at that time.

Ok, thanks...seems like a large sample. If that's mainly from the early months of the year, you were putting in some huge volume at that time.

Actually i double checked now, i have only played about 75k hands of LHE this year. I did play an awful lot in the second half of last year, sort of a desperate attempt to make SNE. Barely managed to break even with the rakeback and mostly end up having losing months, and then slowly dropping pace.

Your average 15-30/30-60 game at that time had a lineup like 50-100/100-200 just months before, and the same goes for the 5/10-10-20 games, they had a lot of the same players. I thought most of the regulars in those games had multiple leaks and alot of them played quite poorly, theyre still regs that have a clue, and playing the volume required just became too hard. Ofcourse youve never heard of this before, but i know i ran extremely poor for this entire duration. I mean no matter how good i ran before or how my game turned for the worse, to go 7-8 years without having concecutive losing months to not managing to put together a string of winning days is just bizarre.

I mean, 2bb/100 loser at 5-10 is pretty huge, although i never used to be able to beat that particular stake in the past either. 5-10 was pretty much the only game that ran constantly, games even as low as 10-20 broke pretty much instantly once the fish left.

I guess i developed a really good strategy/had a good way of playing 2 years ago, and then the regs in general found a way to combat that. Its either that or i just ran THAT bad. Which if im completely honest, im not which one i believe the most. How are the games these days, do you play PS?

if you never had consecutive losing months in 7-8 years then it seems likely you were running above expectation for that time period, which always makes the runbad hurt worse later. but without that survivor bias at the beginning a lot of us wouldn't be here at all.

Well i might have had, but atleast they were very few. Even so, if i ran good for 7 years and then collected all the runbad i was supposed to have in that time into about a years time, thats pretty sick. Some biblical sh*t right there

Agree with your assessment of the Stars games. Never really played there before they switched to .eu so I don't know the playerpool that well. They seem to have the hugest fish, but also a bunch of world class players grinding in the low double digits games... things get pretty swingswongy when the edges are small, and I'm not particularly interested in trying to find out how I fare against the general lineup. 1st, it would take a million hands to be sure, and 2nd, I have a gnawing feeling I wouldn't like the results anyway.

I`ve been a pretty decent winner there the past 3-4 years before last year, ofcourse there were more fish and the better regs usually played higher. Even though i dont think that the regs are so much world class, theyre still good and i expect most of them to be winners or atleast rakeback grinders with a decent grasp of the game. Only reason i still played there last year was due to lack of action elsewhere, and i didnt really have the funds to split my roll up for multiple sites. It`s been a rough year.