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Poker Video: Misc/Other by DeathDonkey (Mid Stakes)

wow surprised about the discussion for folding 3468 utg

Time Link to 00:15:52

dd how do u play the exact vicentziu hand he has (23478) ott? c/r/call down or c/r/break or c/c/c/c?

wow surprised about the discussion for folding 3468 utg

that hand is usually a fold utg (havent watched video)

Time Link to 00:37:43

villain raises here (with these levels of passivity) exactly no5+
so we pay 2 more bets to see his wheel and loose a bet to no2 (which he doesn't cap) and get 1 bet for value from no4,no5 and i like slides decision a lot should be +1BB ev

Time Link to 00:39:32

thats an interesting theory chat. i thought patting lighter is better ip cause its much easier to play like when we get raised we can break etc otherwise he can raise while drawing etc

Time Link to 00:02:15

i would call and draw 2 here. i dont feel obliged to 3bet/draw 1/snow just because we have an 8 with our 7644. IME scarecrow is never l/f'ing either so its gonna be 3ways.

Time Link to 00:13:35

Im personally never breaking the 8 off 8753. you can only catch a 2 for a better draw and im happy enough to make an 87 and get to showdown/win.

Time Link to 00:18:51

Id be a little tempted to bluff raise if he bets as many of his 9's as i think i remember. he'd probably call me fairly lightly, but SIide will get more respect than me

Time Link to 00:27:15

i think jassi just called in sb and drew 1 which even for a guy as passive as he is probably means he's drawing pretty rough. saadleb is also kinda unlikely to raise unless he is pat so i feel ok peeling here but it is close.

Time Link to 00:37:14

Im with you DD, but id be vbetting even wider than 96's. im really sad if b/c is correct and i hope SIide played it poorly. i mean, who cant raise/call #6 there?

Time Link to 00:45:22

i think this hand is a little too strong to freeze and i would be value raising it usually.

villain raises here (with these levels of passivity) exactly no5+
so we pay 2 more bets to see his wheel and loose a bet to no2 (which he doesn't cap) and get 1 bet for value from no4,no5 and i like slides decision a lot should be +1BB ev

This particular villain was very passive, weak tight. So snowboard's range is probably close to correct. I'd say as a default against 90% of opponents at this level, this should be a 3-bet & crying call.

i would call and draw 2 here. i dont feel obliged to 3bet/draw 1/snow just because we have an 8 with our 7644. IME scarecrow is never l/f'ing either so its gonna be 3ways.

I agree that 3-bet, draw 1 is just setting us up for trouble. Scarecrow is also very aggressive postdraw and will just make our life hell when we play hands like this.

I think the decision to call and draw 2 or fold is close. If the isolator had opened from a later position or was a poorer player I think peeling once is fine.

Im personally never breaking the 8 off 8753. you can only catch a 2 for a better draw and im happy enough to make an 87 and get to showdown/win.

I tend to agree with a this. All our opponents ranges a wide and I think making a reasonable 87 is generally going to show a profit in this spot.

I also think I would break 8754 and draw to 2 to 754 rather than draw 1 and snow.

Time Link to 00:14:43

Bit surprised at the amount of heat I got from this fold. I agree its an open given the poor players in the blinds, but its got to be close to the worst hand I would open. I think 872 is generally a fold and kinda view 843 & 862 as about equal in starting hand strength and can go either way in the HJ.

Time Link to 00:15:37

I decided to fold the 8742x because of how weak tight I had seen vincent play. When he checks the flop in this case, his range is still his entire 1-c range that bricked and not just the weaker part of that range. Also, I think his lead here is just a made hand that he thinks is good.

I've seen bad players donk bet/3-bet here with 7s thinking they'll win a ton of bets, though not sure if this is the case in this spot.

Time Link to 00:21:32

Again, this must be close to the bottom of your defending range (assuming the Btn isn't a nit). 862 seems like a standard fold.

thats an interesting theory chat. i thought patting lighter is better ip cause its much easier to play like when we get raised we can break etc otherwise he can raise while drawing etc

I think the main deciding factor for me was just how passive straight forward our opponent is here. We basically have no fear of getting played back at unless villain has made a strong hand. I think in general, continually patting a smooth 97 in this spot against competent opponents is probably going to make our range too weak and give us trouble later in the hand.

Regarding patting lighter in position, I think you also have to consider your implied odds when your deciding whether to pat or break. When you pat rough your basically giving up any chance to get in a nice raise when you over take your opponent, or even just simply being able to value bet the river when you make a hand. If we're in a situation where our draw and our pat hand have roughly the same equity, I think we should strongly consider breaking in position.

Bit surprised at the amount of heat I got from this fold. I agree its an open given the poor players in the blinds, but its got to be close to the worst hand I would open. I think 872 is generally a fold and kinda view 843 & 862 as about equal in starting hand strength and can go either way in the HJ.

I think killing a deuce makes 862 a bit better than 843 but I'd probably open both in hijack, its not a huge deal obviously I would probably play a lot of borderline hands given how juicy those games looked.

dd how do u play the exact vicentziu hand he has (23478) ott? c/r/call down or c/r/break or c/c/c/c?

Probably CR and break, CR call down against more aggressive villains.

I decided to fold the 8742x because of how weak tight I had seen vincent play. When he checks the flop in this case, his range is still his entire 1-c range that bricked and not just the weaker part of that range. Also, I think his lead here is just a made hand that he thinks is good.

I've seen bad players donk bet/3-bet here with 7s thinking they'll win a ton of bets, though not sure if this is the case in this spot.

Fair enough, makes sense

Again, this must be close to the bottom of your defending range (assuming the Btn isn't a nit). 862 seems like a standard fold.

Yes for sure, I think I probably draw my line between 258 and 268

Time Link to 00:24:13

You say here that it is worth more to see a few deuces than other wheel cards when snowing. I presume that is because the less likely they are to have a deuce, the rougher their draw likely will be. However, once someone has decided to play a hand, I feel like there's a decent chance they already have a deuce. Therefore, if we start picking up non-deuce wheel cards, shouldn't that be slightly better in that it is more likely that they started with a deuce and are now looking for non-deuce wheel cards? To clarify, based on "normal" starting hands, won't our opponents be looking for non-deuce wheel cards more often than deuces? And shouldn't that mean that picking up non-deuce wheel cards is more valuable?

In contrast, seeing 3 deuces preflop seems more valuable in that there's less of a chance that someone enters the pot to begin with.

Granted, at these stakes and specifically w/ some of these players, having a deuce is not as big of a concern for starting hands for them, but I'm speaking more in general terms.

In general people constantly amaze me at how they get sucked into a hand with a crappy hand with no deuce, so blocking the deuces is still worth the most. Main reason is that early on they are not that worried, but then when you are drawing less cards than them or pat (snowing or not) they will think "wow I played a weak hand to begin with and now I'm further behind than I thought and I have a crappy draw, lets just get out of this mess" and fold. This is usually a good thing for you when its snowy

Makes sense. So you're essentially hoping to see deuces because that increases your fold equity based on your perceived strength and their likely weak hands as a result of not having those deuces. Or when you actually have a hand, then you obviously have the green light to bet more thinly and be more confident in general.

Assuming a competent opponent, I think the value of catching deuces goes down a bit, but then again, a competent player will still have some rough hands in their range as well depending on position, opponents, etc. VS another good player, does that value of catching a deuce go down a bit for you? Or is catching deuces just that much more valuable that it's a good bit better in all scenarios?

Thanks in advance.

i actually kinda prefer to have alot of the mid cards because then people get to the river and brick before folding so you get more value in your snow also some people that are dueceless get suspicious because of that.

One thing is surely true, sometimes even good players will be in a spot where they saw like three deuces, and a good-playing opponent will play a big pot against them and afterwards they will say something like "wow you had the last deuce" like it should be any big surprise. At the end of the day when n good players are in a pot against you, you better see (5-n) deuces before you're sure you've got someone in a bad spot

Hahaha noted!

Hi!

min 16:40 I think you misread the action. Slide defendetd vs an UTG or Hijack open. Isn't that too optimistic? What is the worst hand you would defend here? I fold 82 and 62 but call 2W, 27 and 863+. Is that too tight?

min 26:50 Are you positive that you fold here? he flatted pre so has a weak range I assume.
I probably do overvalue 853 a little bit but I like it more then 753. Also the likelyhood of being jammed is relatively small since the guy left to act drew 2.

min 27:45 Why exactly should he 3bet? what range do you asign us for him making 3bet a good play?
the concept being 3way and 3betting slighter is new to me. being a money dog is evend out by the fact
that the third guy contributes deadmoney to the pot? clearly the third guy is not folding.
also how do you react to a cap in his shoes? I assume you fold but that should not be happening with such a strong hand imo.

Hi!

min 16:40 I think you misread the action. Slide defendetd vs an UTG or Hijack open. Isn't that too optimistic? What is the worst hand you would defend here? I fold 82 and 62 but call 2W, 27 and 863+. Is that too tight?

totally standard defense. folding 82/62 is prob a mistake imo too.

i defend 367 but not 467 there

min 26:50 Are you positive that you fold here? he flatted pre so has a weak range I assume.
I probably do overvalue 853 a little bit but I like it more then 753. Also the likelyhood of being jammed is relatively small since the guy left to act drew 2.

His range isn't weak at all, he called and took 2 from the SB in a tight structure, he most likely has a deuce and two other wheel cards or an 8, then he leads out 3 ways, he now has improved to either a strong 4 card or a pat hand of some sort, that is a very strong range when we hold 348 and bricked. We also aren't closing the action and if the other guy is pat we get jammed, and sometimes guys jam there drawing 1, so its an unpredictable spot, our draw is bad, and we aren't getting some amazing price. Looking back on this video after a few months I think its even more of a fold now than I said in there, I think the call was worse than I stated.

min 27:45 Why exactly should he 3bet? what range do you asign us for him making 3bet a good play?
the concept being 3way and 3betting slighter is new to me. being a money dog is evend out by the fact
that the third guy contributes deadmoney to the pot? clearly the third guy is not folding.
also how do you react to a cap in his shoes? I assume you fold but that should not be happening with such a strong hand imo.

He has an 86 and went 2 to pat first off, he doesn't know us necessarily, plenty of guys in our spot would jam any 875 and better for value, as well as take some shots with some worse hands to make him fold/break/they don't really know what they are accomplishing but they like to be aggressive. Point is, an unknown raiser there can have plenty of hands that 865 is crushing. But that isn't really the main reason, the main reason is the presence of the 3rd guy who took 2 to the face in a smallish pot, that guy is most likely bad since he should fold a wheel draw there IMO, and we need to charge him. We know nobody is likely folding at this point so for every bet that goes in, he is getting 2 bets in the pot from him opponents, he needs 33% equity vs their ranges to breakeven, not 50%, that's what I mean by a "money favorite". Even vs a wheel draw a 865 is crushing with one draw to go, there are no equity calculators for TD that I'm aware of where you can put in a range for the other likely pat guy ("hero" in the video I guess, though I'm writing this all as if the guy with 865 is the hero and we are discussing what he should do), but unless we are literally never raising worse hands for value I'm pretty confident he has 33%.