Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (High Stakes)

Great Video please continue the series.

Time Link to 00:20:27

Donkbet it like a fish

Loved the video, DeathDonkey's explanations make perfect sense.

Please, Please, Please more "live" video's and discussion like this one!!!! The online/multi-table video's are good but don't really have the same feel.

I realize you two were monsters posting on 2+2 back in the good old days, so hearing these discussions is awesome. Feel free to drag BBB, JoeTall, etc into a "live" review session. Hearing what we're supposed to be thinking about at the table is pretty eye opening.

Thanks for the vid, but please, please, please more...

I agree, please bring more videos that talk about Live Poker and not online poker since that is no more. Bring coaches like Mike L. and OTR15 please besdies DD, obviously.

Time Link to 00:46:01

I agree with the fold since the villain has taken an strong enough line to make us think our hand is beaten, but how much equity do we need to continue? We're getting about 11-1 right now, and I'm guessing another bet is going in on the river (so 12-2?).

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
1,540 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 4749
Hero:TdTs 13.38% (184 wins, 44 ties)
Villain:77,99-AA,Js9s,Qs9s,Ks9s,As9s 86.62% (1,312 wins, 44 ties)

Are we just assuming his range contains a lot more sets and overpairs than the possible pair+spade draw?

I agree with the fold since the villain has taken an strong enough line to make us think our hand is beaten, but how much equity do we need to continue? We're getting about 11-1 right now, and I'm guessing another bet is going in on the river (so 12-2?).

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
1,540 trials (Exhaustive)
board: 4749
Hero:TdTs 13.38% (184 wins, 44 ties)
Villain:77,99-AA,Js9s,Qs9s,Ks9s,As9s 86.62% (1,312 wins, 44 ties)

Are we just assuming his range contains a lot more sets and overpairs than the possible pair+spade draw?

Yeah pretty much, I feel like I raised that point to Doug and he felt confident this type of villain would not overplay the pair + flush draw, and was weighted heavily towards the overpair / set type of hands that make the most sense for a presumably slightly too passive player. Can never be sure but that was the read. You are def right that if the combo draw type hands all make sense too, you probably have to continue and call river on a non spade.

In the JT hand, you talk about how you want to bet the turn because we've created a bloated pot and we need to "protect our hand". This concept doesn't seem to apply to me here in the sense that, sure maybe one of the opponents has a flush draw, but he's always calling the turn anyway, so sure we're getting in money while we're ahead of his range, but we're hardly protecting. The big problem here is that we have JT on KJTK vs TWO opponents on a board that should hit both of their ranges. There's just no way we're doing well enough against BOTH opponents here to make betting good. Often we'll be up against Kx and a flush draw, or Kx and AJ, or AQ and QJ, etc etc etc. It seems impossible to me to make the case that we have enough equity vs both of them to make betting good.

Another benefit to checking is that if Seat 9 bets and Seat 2 raises we have a trivial fold without putting another dime in the pot. If we check and Seat 9 bets and Seat 2 calls, it's probably still an easy c/f. If Seat 2 folds, maybe we can call turn / evaluate river.

I just have a hard time finding ranges for TWO opponents here where one of them doesn't have us drawing dead or deadish very often.

I guess we just disagree? There are plenty of hands we beat, and our two opponents both need to hold them, its a parlay, but its not the craziest thing ever. The pot is big, its time to be optimistic, we can pretty easily fold to a raise, and giving a free card the times we are ahead is a really bad mistake.

Good stuff as always and I'd also be interested in seeing a series with you updating your friend on the ways of LHE.

Hm

I guess I just don't see why giving a free card the times we are ahead is so bad. It's not like any draws are folding to our turn bet anyway, so under an optimistic situation in which we are ahead of both players, sure we'd like to get value on the turn when we have good equity, but it's not the end of the world if we miss a bet there, as they still likely have a pretty good number of combined outs.

Ultimately it seems like we should only bet when we have at least 33% equity to win the pot on the turn. Given how often I expect us to have 0 or 0ish% equity, we need to have really good equity the times we are not drawing dead. Maybe I'm being pessimistic about how many times we are drawing dead (or deadish, to AJ or AQ). Certainly if we knew that we were never drawing dead we'd have good enough equity 3 ways to fire. But I don't see how giving a free card the times we're ahead is such a big mistake when no draws are folding, and we have to be drawing dead at least some reasonable amount of the time.

Don't mean to beat a dead horse here; the video is very good, this is just one spot I pretty strongly disagree with

Also I appreciate you taking the time to always respond to comments / questions / criticisms, and also appreciate that your videos are always thorough and packed with analysis. Keep it up.

I think you make some good points fwiw, and I now think its closer than I thought at the time. Perhaps I am guilty of trying to avoid a difficult river decision by just firing the turn and then checking behind river if that's an option