Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by Joe Tall (High Stakes)

such great 'other games' coverage this season guys.

Worth watching just for Joe Tall actually speechless around the 7m mark!

first HU limit section:

09:03 AK: Turns out that on that turn you have 30% equity against a 35%-40% 3betting range, i assume he leads his entire range on that turn, you are getting 20% pot odds to call his turn lead

09:40 JT on T656: I think this would be closer if you had AT, but with just JT i don't think you can 3bet profitably. Sure he has air and 87 97 etc a fair amount, but calling and inducing a river barrel will get you that extra BB anyway most of the time, and you save yourself bets vs better Ts and 6x and overpairs. Even if we put hands like A5 in his range, there's just not enough of them against the the hands you are behind, and many of these combos will punish you with a cap.

10:05 T2: i betfold that river for value, you beat PPs, 98, J9 etc.

10:37 J9 on 678-A-2: i would much rather a turn raise as a semibluff than a river one

11:07 T7 on 985-T: I think the turn raise is too thin, i would just call down and induce from the single heart hands

2nd set:

- K6o not a fan of the turn checkraise, you are targetting exactly A high here and some of the time this will be checked back on the flop. I doubt any 2x or 4x will fold: the only time they will is when a heart falls on the riv (when you don't really want them to!). You've got a nice hand that can xc the turn and xf the river.

- 24:05 K9 - i don't checkraise this flop for the same reasons as above really. As played if you are going to betcall, i would rather checkcall. But out of all options i like betfold, he is bluffing some of the time but many hands he won't turn in to bluffs - not sure if he's smart enough to turn 4x in to a bluff. But his range is very heavy in single diamond hands.

[edit after watching results: well i never... horrid call by him on the turn, i didnt expect him to have that in his range ]

25:25 - K7s again i don't checkraise this flop, it's not really for value, it's not really a semibluff as better hands wont fold at least before river... interested to see if other, more aggro HU players fastplay this kind of high-card draw

set 3: I play every hand the same, except maybe the 32o checkraise. I think that's fine by default, against this guy I would just checkfold, he is playing back way too much and rebluffing, i would strengthen my ranges throughout and catch the spew (he demonstrates that in this hand by making a pretty bad calldown with AJ high on a bad board. So if he's making calldowns like this I want him to compound his error by having a stronger - more value-orientated checkraise range, and lines in general.)

Great vid, the H portion seems to play much bigger than the other games, would you agree? Much bigger pots, many more showdowns. You pretty much owned him for 40 mins that lose a couple of medium-big HE hands that swings the match.

Time Link to 00:02:54

Joe:

sometimes when you are talking about opening ranges in the stud games you seem to flipflop.

at times its 'he has 100% of hands' and others, like here, you suggest that its likely he has a 4 flush. he has ATC in the hole here, which some portion of the time is a 4 flush or 3 flush, but is like to be 2 random cards.

I've noticed this in other videos too when you defend and a card fits in with the shown board for opponent and you start to see monsters under the bed.

I think its totally different in 8 handed games or in a situation where he brings in and then defends, as its obviously much more likely that he has the cards underneath that a 4th heart (or a connected card) would represent. But in this case, against a super aggro villain, assuming he has anything other than 4 random cards is probably a mistake.

Obviously you know stud WAY better than I do, but this is a trend I've noticed and maybe you can comment on it. I don't want to sound overly negative, as I have learned a lot about stud games from you.

Thanks

Time Link to 00:24:45

folding T5o in a 2/3 structure is a pretty clear mistake even against an aggro 3bettor imo.
you're hand makes ok pairs and you're getting a good price. i don't even think i fold this against him in a 1/3 structure.

Joe:

sometimes when you are talking about opening ranges in the stud games you seem to flipflop.

at times its 'he has 100% of hands' and others, like here, you suggest that its likely he has a 4 flush. he has ATC in the hole here, which some portion of the time is a 4 flush or 3 flush, but is like to be 2 random cards.

I've noticed this in other videos too when you defend and a card fits in with the shown board for opponent and you start to see monsters under the bed.

I think its totally different in 8 handed games or in a situation where he brings in and then defends, as its obviously much more likely that he has the cards underneath that a 4th heart (or a connected card) would represent. But in this case, against a super aggro villain, assuming he has anything other than 4 random cards is probably a mistake.

Obviously you know stud WAY better than I do, but this is a trend I've noticed and maybe you can comment on it. I don't want to sound overly negative, as I have learned a lot about stud games from you.

Thanks

you adjust this a bunch by talking about the ATC more often through most of this video. i had only watched the first couple minutes when i made that comment

Time Link to 00:01:31

raise 3rd here

Time Link to 00:02:46

against a massively agressive player that's opening 100% I can see an argument for 3 betting 3rd if hes capable of raise folding or calling and raising 4th on any good connected card. Gotta balance this with pairs obv

Time Link to 00:07:15

cheno doesnt give a hoot about online poker lol. His plays are essentially always maniac fishy

Time Link to 00:00:59

spew against that 6s board. I mean is he really showing down 5s after you 3 bet?

Time Link to 00:18:03

how are you folding here with a 3 straight and 4 overs to anylikely hand he has? the pot is small but we are giving him free money

15:50 razz hand "i wouldn't doubt if he was full" i lol'd

17:05 (3J)8 NONONONO

how are you folding here with a 3 straight and 4 overs to anylikely hand he has? the pot is small but we are giving him free money

+1

32:30 Stud high. You check/fold 6th street with (8Q)KA69 vs xx9526 after betting the whole way. Don't understand this play at all.

Time Link to 00:17:00

crazy its razz anything can happen 16-1 pretty good odds like you said he could already have a pair in the hole

Time Link to 00:07:07

"I don't know what game he thought he was playing."

Epic

Hood and Blumpster, CRUSHING me w/o time links! Watch this vid please: http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/26-Tool_Time/866-Using_the_Flash_Video_Player

Will get back to your comments in a bit.

Joe:

sometimes when you are talking about opening ranges in the stud games you seem to flipflop.

at times its 'he has 100% of hands' and others, like here, you suggest that its likely he has a 4 flush. he has ATC in the hole here, which some portion of the time is a 4 flush or 3 flush, but is like to be 2 random cards.

I've noticed this in other videos too when you defend and a card fits in with the shown board for opponent and you start to see monsters under the bed.

I think its totally different in 8 handed games or in a situation where he brings in and then defends, as its obviously much more likely that he has the cards underneath that a 4th heart (or a connected card) would represent. But in this case, against a super aggro villain, assuming he has anything other than 4 random cards is probably a mistake.

Obviously you know stud WAY better than I do, but this is a trend I've noticed and maybe you can comment on it. I don't want to sound overly negative, as I have learned a lot about stud games from you.

Thanks

I think what you are neglecting, and what I failed to say, is what I'm holding vs what he is holding. He makes xxQh4h and I hit a gut shot 3-str 8cJc4c9x, I just didnt improve enough, he has one of my 4s, he has my Q (if I make a T for a straight) PLUS he hits a card that 'fits' his 3-flush/4-flush area. It's that combination of events that leads to a fold.

folding T5o in a 2/3 structure is a pretty clear mistake even against an aggro 3bettor imo.
you're hand makes ok pairs and you're getting a good price. i don't even think i fold this against him in a 1/3 structure.

Going to have to agree. FWIW, I actually made this video as the 1st video in the series and have since opened up T5, but folding T4<

you adjust this a bunch by talking about the ATC more often through most of this video. i had only watched the first couple minutes when i made that comment

Coolio and thanks.

raise 3rd here

Yeah, I agree.

spew against that 6s board. I mean is he really showing down 5s after you 3 bet?

Time link busto? Not sure what hand you are talking about.

how are you folding here with a 3 straight and 4 overs to anylikely hand he has? the pot is small but we are giving him free money

Yeah, looking back, I 100% agree.

Time Link to 00:21:35

h

such great 'other games' coverage this season guys.

Worth watching just for Joe Tall actually speechless around the 7m mark!

I end up more than speechless again in this new episode, make sure you check it out! PLEASSSSE use time links!

Hood, I'll get to your comments soon. Probably by tomorrow, sorry for the delay!

Can you explain why you chose to lrr hands like J(66) vs his K http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/3241-Episode-Five?seek=1122 in stud and not 3 ball 22 in lhe? It seems like they have similar value and are likely to play out in a similar fashion.

Can you explain why you chose to lrr hands like J(66) vs his K http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/3241-Episode-Five?seek=1122 in stud and not 3 ball 22 in lhe? It seems like they have similar value and are likely to play out in a similar fashion.

Having 22 in LHE OOP

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
12,585,434,400 trials (Exhaustive)
22 50.33% (6,215,338,932 wins, 238,832,040 ties)
** 49.67% (6,131,263,428 wins, 238,832,040 ties)

vs having (66)J, that is going to be in-position post 3rd street:

ProPokerTools Stud Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
6h6d|Jh 58.75% (352,501 wins, 33 ties)
**|Ks 41.25% (247,466 wins, 33 ties)

Playability really, coming from equity + position, plus in Stud it's correct to complete/fold, not that Chino did that much but he should be, and getting a small chance he'll fold an over card (or two) on 3rd is a huge plus.

set 3: I play every hand the same, except maybe the 32o checkraise. I think that's fine by default, against this guy I would just checkfold, he is playing back way too much and rebluffing, i would strengthen my ranges throughout and catch the spew (he demonstrates that in this hand by making a pretty bad calldown with AJ high on a bad board. So if he's making calldowns like this I want him to compound his error by having a stronger - more value-orientated checkraise range, and lines in general.)

Great vid, the H portion seems to play much bigger than the other games, would you agree? Much bigger pots, many more showdowns. You pretty much owned him for 40 mins that lose a couple of medium-big HE hands that swings the match.

I looked over most of the hands you commented on and do not have any distinct argument to make, I can agree with most of them, yes. Vs a player like Chino, the LHE is going to play very very big. I also pick a lot of lines that are thin and buckle up for that variance. Players like Chino love to see chips fly, and if you take thin lines, your action will get more action. Only really works on this LAGgy subset of players.

32:30 Stud high. You check/fold 6th street with (8Q)KA69 vs xx9526 after betting the whole way. Don't understand this play at all.

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/3241-Episode-Five?seek=1957

My board is so scary and I plow 3 streets, he's not folding. He's got my 6 and 9, and I'm drawing to QKA hopefully? right? A meh-9 outs once, that's if one pair is good, 9:33 at 5:1 pot size, bah, I guess.

Time Link to 00:11:41

Any merit to betting turn? We're in good shape vs his flushdraw/LL** hands, in position so can take free showdowns and have decent implied odds on our scoop outs.

Time Link to 00:13:36

Could we lead river for value and fold to a raise? Seems like we lose the same amount when we're beat and get value from his worse 2 pairs... or are you worried about him raising as a bluff with LL*s*s/Q**s*s type hands?

Time Link to 00:16:12

I was kind surprised you folded here as we have 2 cards below his, but then I found we're only 45% vs a random hand... I'm assuming this would be a raise against a straightforward opponent? What's the highest 3card card (42*) you'd raise here against Chino?

Getting 2.2:1 can we ever limp here vs someone who defends/3bets very light and try to pickup on 4th?

Any merit to betting turn? We're in good shape vs his flushdraw/LL** hands, in position so can take free showdowns and have decent implied odds on our scoop outs.

Not against Chino, I have to see the river, and he'll check-raise this high-only turn with a wide range.

Could we lead river for value and fold to a raise? Seems like we lose the same amount when we're beat and get value from his worse 2 pairs... or are you worried about him raising as a bluff with LL*s*s/Q**s*s type hands?

No folding vs a player like Chino, he has such wide ranges, ever and there is far too much value in a showdown.

I was kind surprised you folded here as we have 2 cards below his, but then I found we're only 45% vs a random hand... I'm assuming this would be a raise against a straightforward opponent? What's the highest 3card card (42*) you'd raise here against Chino?

Very match-dependent, I'd raise a T42, np.

Getting 2.2:1 can we ever limp here vs someone who defends/3bets very light and try to pickup on 4th?

Its really tough to balance a range since he also defends so lightly you are going to get a lot of value by open-completing.

Time Link to 00:16:35

Ahhh! Don't fold this! Even against someone as loose as him. "meh, $6 in the middle, you can have it" is going to cost you a lot in hu razz. The majority of hands end on 3rd street, so if you're missing out on frequent steal spots like this you will lose a lot of edge. Especially at an aggressive limit like 15/30 with a large ante and bring in.

It's not like stud high where there are a ton of combinations he can continue with. Even a maniac understands he has to have a two card ten or better to continue here. Given that, it's mathematically correct to steal just based on fold equity alone, not to mention the fact that you can still take it down on later streets if he flats. It may seem like an irrelevant spot but these small pots really add up in hu razz since the majority of hands end on 3rd street. Get it in good syndrome is lethal if you play a lot of hu.

Loved this though. Lots of action and fun to watch. =)

Time Link to 00:33:09

Can we get away with checking 5th here? Or would that just be too unbalanced? We're obviously behind and don't really have any fold equity after getting raised on 4th. Are you planning to barrel 6th and 7th if you miss to try to get him to fold a pair of queens?

Ahhh! Don't fold this! Even against someone as loose as him. "meh, $6 in the middle, you can have it" is going to cost you a lot in hu razz. The majority of hands end on 3rd street, so if you're missing out on frequent steal spots like this you will lose a lot of edge. Especially at an aggressive limit like 15/30 with a large ante and bring in.

It's not like stud high where there are a ton of combinations he can continue with. Even a maniac understands he has to have a two card ten or better to continue here. Given that, it's mathematically correct to steal just based on fold equity alone, not to mention the fact that you can still take it down on later streets if he flats. It may seem like an irrelevant spot but these small pots really add up in hu razz since the majority of hands end on 3rd street. Get it in good syndrome is lethal if you play a lot of hu.

Loved this though. Lots of action and fun to watch. =)

I still think you are vastly underestimating Chino's ability to fold + his ability to re-steal but I do hear your point.

It was a crazy match, too bad these days are over now.

Can we get away with checking 5th here? Or would that just be too unbalanced? We're obviously behind and don't really have any fold equity after getting raised on 4th. Are you planning to barrel 6th and 7th if you miss to try to get him to fold a pair of queens?

Once I pair my door there is no checking 5th, so many cards get me out on 6th when I bet 5th. Not sure if you noticed and I feel its OK to be result oriented in a video review, but he raised me with complete air on 4th. He does not have to be ahead on 5th, and actually ran off two pair.