Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by Joe Tall (High Stakes)

Time Link to 00:17:25

Your ten plays. He did not river you.

stop semibluffing with showdown value

Time Link to 00:02:17

You're bluffing...

.....


If you're raising for value, it's probably a little thin, but not the worst ever. I'd probably just call call generally though.

I'm gonna make you listen to me analyze stud8 so you know how it feels.

Time Link to 00:03:47

see nina's comment.

Time Link to 00:18:55

Yeah that's not a great turn to bet even, honestly. I'd just c/c the turn usually. Against some very straightforward/foldy guys on the flop, you can just c/f the turn.

Time Link to 00:02:04

I suppose the others already said the exact same thing, but I can't let you get away with saying "pretty standard bluff spot" when you have 3rd pair. If I just said to you "Joe I am gonna try to get my opponent at 10/20 huhu online to fold 2nd pair or better" that would seem pretty suicidal wouldn't it?

I suppose the others already said the exact same thing, but I can't let you get away with saying "pretty standard bluff spot" when you have 3rd pair. If I just said to you "Joe I am gonna try to get my opponent at 10/20 huhu online to fold 2nd pair or better" that would seem pretty suicidal wouldn't it?

yes

I suppose the others already said the exact same thing, but I can't let you get away with saying "pretty standard bluff spot" when you have 3rd pair. If I just said to you "Joe I am gonna try to get my opponent at 10/20 huhu online to fold 2nd pair or better" that would seem pretty suicidal wouldn't it?

Agreed.

Time Link to 00:11:02

You need to read 4 cards faster! He flopped middle set with a T high flush redraw and decided to jam it. When he turned an underfull he played it really well and didn't jam.

Time Link to 00:25:49

This hand is possibly one of the most hilarious razz hands I have ever watched.

Rob

Time Link to 00:28:39

Wow. I'd never fold here.

Wow. I'd never fold here.

You absolutely must fold here. The pot was check through on teh turn and is small. No scoop and not the greatest shot even for 1/2.

You need to read 4 cards faster! He flopped middle set with a T high flush redraw and decided to jam it. When he turned an underfull he played it really well and didn't jam.

Wow, you are right. Such is the tragedy of making a video at the same time and playing HU over 5 games. This player is a DCer, who knew who I was at the time. I did not know who he was, still dont (on DC) but he is a good player.

Wow. I'd never fold here.

After watching the 1st 1/2 I agree w/Joe.

It's a small pot. Vs. an unknown I call here and win 1/2 a bunch but I think vs. this villain I can get away from my hand given the pot size.

Joe I don't mind a turn bet here though. Push out some jacks, get called by some naked lows and our equity is pretty solid.

Edit: I pretty much always bet that turn.

DOUBLE edit: You can call that river I did the math wrong and for some reason though the pot was smaller. It's SUPER thin and given match dynamic I don't mind folding @ all but I think calling is close to good.

Hey, I am Joes opponent in the video and I will try to give some insights from my point of view.

First of all, as you have mentioned in the comments, I had an information advantage in the video, over you as I knew much more about how you play than the other way around.

My main game is HU LHE and I think I have an edge over you here, since you made same questionable plays. (Which others have already pointed out already in the comments)

It should be clear that you have the edge in the Stud games, but it probably is not nearly as big as you thought while playing against me in the video.

Overall I guess I played tight in the non holdem games and almost a little bit timid, where I have chosen the save/ passiv line (not putting in more action, instead just calling down.) It turns out, that I have given you too much credit in several spots for a stronger range than you actually had.

During the video I was under the impression that you would have an more accurate glimpse of my ranges in certain spots, but this was obviously very naive thinking from me. Since I was a total unknown for you I guess you underestimated my play in some spots and I overestimated your plays in some spots (Giving you more credit as I thought you see me as a somehow thinking player, but you didnt adapt the way I thought you would – at least at the beginning of the video)

All in all I ran good in this video and you probably didint play your A game (recording and commenting in real time, familial distractions ;-), and so on.)

Well, I made a lot of comments to some of the hands in the video, and I hope it is not too overwhelming, but on the other hand thats what the comment function is for.
So I hope I did contribute something to the discussion.

Time Link to 00:00:14

I am not really sure if this is a great card for you. Although the 2 counterfits my naked A2xx hands, they are only a small part of my range, since I would 3bet alot of A2xx hands preflop. On the other hand I could have a lot of made lo hands with flush and straight draws that are freerolling against your hand. In fact you did read my hand as a baby flush on the river, so if you put me on that hand why raise the T?

Time Link to 00:10:45

Flop is obvious an easy cap (given 4 card handreading abillities :-P) with second set flush redraw and blockers vs the strong Combodraws. After your T raise, altought the likleyhood of JT is greatly reduced and you would not always 3bet J6 on the flop, I I really was concerned that my underfull was not good vs your range. Combined with the fact that a hand like the actual hand you had has ten outs and is not that far behind I just called down.

Time Link to 00:12:49

I had KQ67dd and didnt raise my K hi Flush on the turn, as I thought your betting range on this lo coordinated board contains almost no hi only hands that I am ahead of and most of your lo hands dont fold ever. On the river the A was a good card for me as it counterfits many of your lo hands and so I bet in the hope of getting a bad counterfited lo to fold, what actually did happend.

Time Link to 00:15:00

The 8 was actually a bad card for me as I was rolled up from the beginning. It was probably a mistake do not slowplay this hand...

Time Link to 00:23:32

I had trip 5s and thought you would not give me credit for it. So my plan was to b/3b 5th street. On 6th street I thought there was a high chance that you would bet if I check so I went for the c/r.

Time Link to 00:26:02

Really a strange Razz hand, and I probably made a mistake in not betting 5th or 6th street, but your board seemed so strong and it makes no sense to check except from having to bricks in the hole, but you would not raise (brick,brick)A vs a 6 on 3rd. So I was concerned of a c/r.

My hand was (85)6925(A) and I thought I can make a valuebet with my 96 to get paid off by a worse nine. I didnt expect to get a better hand to fold.

Time Link to 00:28:27

I had a hi only hand and you would have been good for the lo.

My plan was to c/r T when a save non lo cards hit but you foilt my plan. Probably should have c/r F.

Time Link to 00:31:03

I had AA and wasnt considering folding, but raising. I choosed the save line in calling down and raising when I make two pair. On the River I made Aces up and made a valuebet.

Time Link to 00:32:37

A really nasty spot to be in and obvious very opponent dependant how to play it. But I think against opponents who peel this kind of Flop very light - since it doesnt hit your 3bet range at all - the better play would be to make a second barrel to fold out parts of my light peeling range.

But you probably considered my peeling range not that wide and more Showdownable as it actually is.

In the actual hand I catched a 3 on the Turn and made a thin valebet against your A hi range.

Time Link to 00:34:28

I made a loose peel on the F mostly with the intention of giving up on the T unimproved. On the River an easy valuebet against your mostly likley hands (A hi/ small pairs).

Considering the fact that your 3betting range in LHE is relativley tight in comparison to other HU LHE players the peel with J9 is probably a mistake.

Time Link to 00:35:33

Do you really expect me to fold a pair of 4s when all the Straight and Flush draws bricked off.. ^^
Definitly check behind River and maybe check behind T/ call River unimproved / raise River when improved.

Time Link to 00:35:46

I think this would be a good spot to attack this try A hi flop with a GS.

(You would even get more respect from me for really having an Ace here since your PF calling range contains a lot more Aces in comparison to other players that 3bet preflop a lot wider than you)

Time Link to 00:36:11

Is this really a fold? I guess its reasonable to fold (72)5 vs. an A as in a previous hand. But isnt folding 753 against a J in S8 a bit too tight? Since my range is much wider than a pair of jacks, you can catch some very good cards (4s and 6s) and if your board develops well, I am hard pressed to continue if I dont have a pair of Jacks (and sometimes even if I have the pair). And if you brick you can just fold 4th. So the hand should be easy to play and should not have reverse implied odds.
Is there something I dont consider in such situations?

Time Link to 00:37:49

An interesting hand and I was alittle suprised as well on the river when the pot went my way, but obvious for different reasons. So let me explain my thought process in this hand:

First of all I played really tightly straightforward in the stud games and didnt make any spewy moves. I tried to avoid marginal spots since you would have an edge there. So I partly avoided situations where I play my (scary) board to get outplayed by you. I though you were very well aware of this fact (and you partly were, as you definitley point out repeatedly that I nit it up in the stud games). So I was really surprised when you "overplayed" your two pair hand in this spot.

When you bet 4th street into my board, when I hit a very good card for my range, I have to think that you gave up most on your 3rd street steals, so that your range consists mostly of pairs, trips and maybe some straight draws. Even more so when I raise 4th and you call.

On 5th when I hit another very good card and you lead into me, this means for me that you must have a really strong hand that isnt too concerned about potentially getting freerolled (and by that I mean stronger than 2 pairs so hi trips or a hi straight) since I thought you would realize that my range in this spot is most of the time really strong (made lo straight, made lo with straight draw, lo pair with lo draw and straight draw, trips). A range against which two high pairs are a underdog.

I raised 5th nevertheless and as you just called I was less concerned of a hi straight. After you lead on 6th again the most likley hands I put you on were hi Trips, that waited for a save non lo card on my board, so I called in the hope to improve and checked behind the River and expected to loose to better trips (It made sense for me, that you would check trips on the River since I probably would not pay you off with two lo pairs.)

All in all I think you overplayed your hand in this spot a little bit, but maybe I gave you too much credit for a monster and you obviously had me on a much wider range - Since you considered for at least a second I would play a lone pair of fours with (T4) in the hole this way ;-)

Time Link to 00:39:40

Is it really correct to fold (84)9 and call (74)9? Surely The playability with a 7 is much higher but I ran a simulation on pokertools and If you give me a range of (9- 9-)7 (two unpaired holecards 9 or lower, which is a really tight range and I think in reality my range is much wider) (84)9 has 46.21% and (74)9 has 47.41% Equity so they are relativ close...

Time Link to 00:40:21

I think this fold is really tight. If I have a range of (8- 8-)46 (which again is on the tighter site of my range estimation) you still have a little bit more than 40% Equity getting 5 to 1..

Time Link to 00:45:46

Funny ;-) Half a Second after saing "Hate the Turn", raising it anyway.

Time Link to 00:46:18

An other quesionable play in LHE. What do you want to accomblish by c/r bottom pair in that spot?

I will fold all my bluffs that are nearly drawing dead against you, which whom i might bluff again on the turn. I will 3bet you with my stronger hands - and draws like QJ are hands you are not that far ahead. So you only get value of weaker 9s and sometimes from smaller pocket pairs / K hi's.

On the River I considered valuebetting my pair of Ts since I thought it is very likely that I have the best hand (or chop with other Ts) but decided against it, since I (mistakenly) thought the mostly likely hands that can pay me off (pair of 9s) are not in your F c/r range.

Time Link to 00:00:14

I am not really sure if this is a great card for you. Although the 2 counterfits my naked A2xx hands, they are only a small part of my range, since I would 3bet alot of A2xx hands preflop. On the other hand I could have a lot of made lo hands with flush and straight draws that are freerolling against your hand. In fact you did read my hand as a baby flush on the river, so if you put me on that hand why raise the T?

The link should go to the hand @00:09:14

Hey, I am Joes opponent in the video and I will try to give some insights from my point of view.

First of all, as you have mentioned in the comments, I had an information advantage in the video, over you as I knew much more about how you play than the other way around.

My main game is HU LHE and I think I have an edge over you here, since you made same questionable plays. (Which others have already pointed out already in the comments)

It should be clear that you have the edge in the Stud games, but it probably is not nearly as big as you thought while playing against me in the video.

Overall I guess I played tight in the non holdem games and almost a little bit timid, where I have chosen the save/ passiv line (not putting in more action, instead just calling down.) It turns out, that I have given you too much credit in several spots for a stronger range than you actually had.

During the video I was under the impression that you would have an more accurate glimpse of my ranges in certain spots, but this was obviously very naive thinking from me. Since I was a total unknown for you I guess you underestimated my play in some spots and I overestimated your plays in some spots (Giving you more credit as I thought you see me as a somehow thinking player, but you didnt adapt the way I thought you would – at least at the beginning of the video)

All in all I ran good in this video and you probably didint play your A game (recording and commenting in real time, familial distractions ;-), and so on.)

Well, I made a lot of comments to some of the hands in the video, and I hope it is not too overwhelming, but on the other hand thats what the comment function is for.
So I hope I did contribute something to the discussion.

Thank for so much for joining us! Great meeting you at the tables!

Is it really correct to fold (84)9 and call (74)9? Surely The playability with a 7 is much higher but I ran a simulation on pokertools and If you give me a range of (9- 9-)7 (two unpaired holecards 9 or lower, which is a really tight range and I think in reality my range is much wider) (84)9 has 46.21% and (74)9 has 47.41% Equity so they are relativ close...

Is it really correct to fold (84)9 and call (74)9? Surely The playability with a 7 is much higher but I ran a simulation on pokertools and If you give me a range of (9- 9-)7 (two unpaired holecards 9 or lower, which is a really tight range and I think in reality my range is much wider) (84)9 has 46.21% and (74)9 has 47.41% Equity so they are relativ close...

FWIW - In this session I felt you were playing the Razz round extremely tight. I would play 849 vs nearly anyone or an unknown.

Just to let you know in PPT you need to have all 3 cards within the (xxx) to analyze them as unpaired. So, (9-9-)7 allows pairing the 7 in the hole card range.

Hand Pot equity
(9-9-7) 60.18%
849 39.82%

Hand Pot equity
(9-9-7) 57.64%
749 42.36%

Giving you a random card (K thru A)
Hand Pot equity
(9-*7) 51.75%
849 48.25%

Hand Pot equity
(9-*7) 49.58%
749 50.42%


Hand Pot equity
(T-T-7) 56.14%
849 43.86%

Hand Pot equity
(T-T-7) 53.71%
749 46.29%

I am not really sure if this is a great card for you. Although the 2 counterfits my naked A2xx hands, they are only a small part of my range, since I would 3bet alot of A2xx hands preflop. On the other hand I could have a lot of made lo hands with flush and straight draws that are freerolling against your hand. In fact you did read my hand as a baby flush on the river, so if you put me on that hand why raise the T?

For a few minutes I was looking for a T on the board, (T = ten) then I realized you meant TURN, ha.

board: Qs8s6c2d

Vs any-A2 (includes flushes and straight draws, plus all bricks, includes a 3 for nut-low as well)
QdQc7hTh 56.92%
A2** 43.08%

Here is my WORST possible situation to be in:

two cards 8 or less suited in spades, with two random cards (which would include A3, obv)
QdQc7hTh 44.16%
LsLs** 55.84%

Here is something a bit more typical, but still has to be middle-top range.

vs low-suited non-low suited, non-low, low (aka 3sKsTc4d)
Hand Pot equity Scoops Wins Hi Ties Hi Wins Lo Ties Lo
QdQc7hTh 55.63% 211,799 453,831 2,704 0 0
LsNsNL 44.37% 143,465 143,465 2,704 334,612 0

There are times you flop sets, etc, so I am getting the best of it (barely) with a raise.

The 8 was actually a bad card for me as I was rolled up from the beginning. It was probably a mistake do not slowplay this hand...

You played it fine, you'd get a ton of action from me if I spike, the cards just did not fall in your favor to get action. (btw, other players might still peel in my spot)

Really a strange Razz hand, and I probably made a mistake in not betting 5th or 6th street, but your board seemed so strong and it makes no sense to check except from having to bricks in the hole, but you would not raise (brick,brick)A vs a 6 on 3rd. So I was concerned of a c/r.

My hand was (85)6925(A) and I thought I can make a valuebet with my 96 to get paid off by a worse nine. I didnt expect to get a better hand to fold.

You have a 8652A. But it doesnt matter as the pot is so small since bet on the end lays me 3:1, and most of your range is mathematically good on the river.

I had a hi only hand and you would have been good for the lo.

My plan was to c/r T when a save non lo cards hit but you foilt my plan. Probably should have c/r F.

Still a fold in the river, its close w/the pot being so small and cry-calling for half, I hate it. Not knowing what you had but you should definitely play it faster on the flop.

I had AA and wasnt considering folding, but raising. I choosed the save line in calling down and raising when I make two pair. On the River I made Aces up and made a valuebet.

You should bet 6th, no one ever checks 2-pair or better there vs your board. (too scared to give you free cards as you are coordinated)

Do you really expect me to fold a pair of 4s when all the Straight and Flush draws bricked off.. ^^
Definitly check behind River and maybe check behind T/ call River unimproved / raise River when improved.

I hated my bet as soon as I bet it, I talked myself to checking and clicked anyway, lol.

Is this really a fold? I guess its reasonable to fold (72)5 vs. an A as in a previous hand. But isnt folding 753 against a J in S8 a bit too tight? Since my range is much wider than a pair of jacks, you can catch some very good cards (4s and 6s) and if your board develops well, I am hard pressed to continue if I dont have a pair of Jacks (and sometimes even if I have the pair). And if you brick you can just fold 4th. So the hand should be easy to play and should not have reverse implied odds.
Is there something I dont consider in such situations?

You are right.

But I'm really surprised to hear you say, "much wider than a pair of Jacks" since you were playing sooooooo tight, I figured Jacks was near the middle to bottom of your range!

Here is about the loosest range I can give you:
*d*d, J*, 88-AA|Jd 54.77%
3s5d7h 45.23%

You absolutely must fold here. The pot was check through on teh turn and is small. No scoop and not the greatest shot even for 1/2.

What % chance do you estimate that he has a very weirdly played 24 or 62? It's not like it's a huge pot, so that definitely favors folding, but you're getting 3:1, so you need your low to be good about 40% of the time to be +EV, which I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

Rob

I think this fold is really tight. If I have a range of (8- 8-)46 (which again is on the tighter site of my range estimation) you still have a little bit more than 40% Equity getting 5 to 1..

Again, you are pairing your 4 on 3rd:

Hand Pot equity
(8-8-4)6 67.20%
376T 32.80%

My ROI are too big, 6 is the worst card for me to continue against. The chances you have a paired it are low. I pretty sure I have more equity (2-3%) against any other low card other than than the 6.

who makes the little opening videos? This one has to be one of the best.

You should bet 6th, no one ever checks 2-pair or better there vs your board. (too scared to give you free cards as you are coordinated)

Yeah, I will consider this in the future.
That are the spots in Stud Hi I dont know how to play well. Valuebetting one single pair on 6th and on the River well is for sure a crucial skill in Stud.

Again, you are pairing your 4 on 3rd:

Hand Pot equity
(8-8-4)6 67.20%
376T 32.80%

My ROI are too big, 6 is the worst card for me to continue against. The chances you have a paired it are low. I pretty sure I have more equity (2-3%) against any other low card other than than the 6.

Yeah, my Equity numbers seemed to good to be true anyway..

Nevertheless I think I would almost always peel in this spot :-/

Can you maybe explain a bit more in detail why you think RIO are too big?

Did you only fold because you thought I am too tight? Against which kind of opponent would you peel here?

And isnt 3betting 3rd and c/f 4th when you catch bad / opponent catches good bad for metagame, since when I see you doing this can call wider on 3rd street and take away the pot from you sometimes on 4th.

Yeah, my Equity numbers seemed to good to be true anyway..

Nevertheless I think I would almost always peel in this spot :-/

Can you maybe explain a bit more in detail why you think RIO are too big?

There is $52 in the pot and it's $10 for me to call on 4th, $20 on 5th + 6th + 7th = for a total of $70 to see the showdown, assuming you be every street, you will put $60 in as well making the total pot $182. So I'm risking $70 : $182 so we need around 38% equity, we dont have that as the sim I ran:

Hand Pot equity
(8-8-4)6 67.20%
376T 32.80%

Did you only fold because you thought I am too tight? Against which kind of opponent would you peel here?

Yes, as I'm certain it was more like this (where you didnt pair your 6):

Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
(8-8-46) 72.78% 435,861 1,622
376T 27.22% 162,517 1,622

I would peel versus a very aggro stealer who bluffs much more and even then, you can see it's thin.

And isnt 3betting 3rd and c/f 4th when you catch bad / opponent catches good bad for metagame, since when I see you doing this can call wider on 3rd street and take away the pot from you sometimes on 4th.

First, I only 2-bet, and second, if you hit and I dont, I'm in a world of hurt, you are thinking too much like a holdem player, there are plenty of times to get creative to throw your opponents off, but when the board has you dead, there is no room.

Wow this is really cool to follow along with TheFools comments and Joe's responses... TYVM to both of you!

Time Link to 00:06:02

We're 48% vs **|Ad (I assume he's raising 100%). Getting almost 2.5:1 here can't we call and try to pickup good relative to him? I understand it's a RIO situation but us having a 3 card 7, 2 flush and 2 card 1 gapper makes it seem like there's a lot of good 4th cards we can pickup.

We're 48% vs **|Ad (I assume he's raising 100%). Getting almost 2.5:1 here can't we call and try to pickup good relative to him? I understand it's a RIO situation but us having a 3 card 7, 2 flush and 2 card 1 gapper makes it seem like there's a lot of good 4th cards we can pickup.

Yeah, it's a little tight, this was a live play video and I guess I was making the point more than breaking it down a bit more as you did here.

What % chance do you estimate that he has a very weirdly played 24 or 62? It's not like it's a huge pot, so that definitely favors folding, but you're getting 3:1, so you need your low to be good about 40% of the time to be +EV, which I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

Rob

Ya totally agree with this, I wouldn't be folding here and I think barreling the turn is fine with decent equity, great implied odds, folding some better hands (although this is a v.small consideration), and not getting cr too much

Time Link to 00:43:29

As you have little/no fold equity on 6th was your plan to follow through on 7th as a bluff if you missed?

Also what kind of hands would you expect him to fold on 7th? I'm really unsure of calling ranges here.

As you have little/no fold equity on 6th was your plan to follow through on 7th as a bluff if you missed?

Little tough to answer this now without watching the whole match, but yes my bet sets up a bluff on 7th, however, this may be ill advised.

Also what kind of hands would you expect him to fold on 7th? I'm really unsure of calling ranges here.

UI 8s, if that was my plan, really a match-dependent moment.