Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by threads13 (Mid Stakes)

Time Link to 00:10:07

you guys said that wpr is really tight and the four bet is bad because we wouldnt four bet our big hands vrs a tight range with no bluffs, so we flat our aces vrs a tight player who is raising for value more often and has less bluffs? Can you guys clarify this?

Time Link to 00:57:00

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/3201-Episode-Seven?seek=3406

Not typing "Leave the postflop to the pros, ratboy" in this spot misses huge value.

you guys said that wpr is really tight and the four bet is bad because we wouldnt four bet our big hands vrs a tight range with no bluffs, so we flat our aces vrs a tight player who is raising for value more often and has less bluffs? Can you guys clarify this?

Don't understand the question.

Nice Vid!

Get well soon!

[quote]Don't understand the question.[/quote

You don't understand someone asking you clarify your thought process?

[quote][quote]Don't understand the question.[/quote

You don't understand someone asking you clarify your thought process?[/quote]

Apparently not.

Don't understand the question.
You don't understand someone asking you clarify your thought process?

I think that Nolan is just sick and doesn't feel like he gets paid enough to answer the questions. Thats just my thought process anyway. I'm not trying to be a pain or anything but I was really disappointed with this video as I was excited Nolan was in it and, hoping to hear some thought processes while I learned a lot about big juicy burgers and hand cut potato French fries and the Pancake house. I have yet to find some great videos where they expand on ideas and really get me thinking.

you guys said that wpr is really tight and the four bet is bad because we wouldnt four bet our big hands vrs a tight range with no bluffs, so we flat our aces vrs a tight player who is raising for value more often and has less bluffs? Can you guys clarify this?

I was thinking about this a bit and since wpr 3bet range is so tight basically if he knows we know that then we wouldn't be 4betting with many hands as most of our opening range is crushed by his 3betting range and any hand we 4bet should be basically AA and KK. If wpr thinks hero is out of line he can basically shove anything and take it down as we put him on a tight range to begin with. Also most of the higher PP probably have more value in flatting and playing post flop. Correct me if I'm not on the right track Nolan

~16:30 you fold 88 IP after UTG Raise and MP flat. Why?

~32:30 you call 66 OOP SB. Why?

What's your general approach with PPs at NL400 in an already raised Pot?

I was thinking about this a bit and since wpr 3bet range is so tight basically if he knows we know that then we wouldn't be 4betting with many hands as most of our opening range is crushed by his 3betting range and any hand we 4bet should be basically AA and KK. If wpr thinks hero is out of line he can basically shove anything and take it down as we put him on a tight range to begin with. Also most of the higher PP probably have more value in flatting and playing post flop. Correct me if I'm not on the right track Nolan

I feel like I'm being leveled here. I thought I explained this clearly in the video and frankly I don't think its possible for me to expand on it further. If someone is likely 3 betting you with a tight range, but is also a very good player, they know you aren't going to four bet nut value hands as often as you would against looser players. Take that info wherever you want to go with it.

I'm not sure how much further I can clarify on that.

I feel like I'm being leveled here. I thought I explained this clearly in the video and frankly I don't think its possible for me to expand on it further. If someone is likely 3 betting you with a tight range, but is also a very good player, they know you aren't going to four bet nut value hands as often as you would against looser players. Take that info wherever you want to go with it.

I'm not sure how much further I can clarify on that.

could you elaborate on this a bit?

i sense some hatred going on here.

I feel like I'm being leveled here. I thought I explained this clearly in the video and frankly I don't think its possible for me to expand on it further. If someone is likely 3 betting you with a tight range, but is also a very good player, they know you aren't going to four bet nut value hands as often as you would against looser players. Take that info wherever you want to go with it.

I'm not sure how much further I can clarify on that.

I'm with ya, man. I felt like it was pretty well explained. It is possibly explained a little further...

I was thinking about this a bit and since wpr 3bet range is so tight basically if he knows we know that then we wouldn't be 4betting with many hands as most of our opening range is crushed by his 3betting range and any hand we 4bet should be basically AA and KK. If wpr thinks hero is out of line he can basically shove anything and take it down as we put him on a tight range to begin with. Also most of the higher PP probably have more value in flatting and playing post flop. Correct me if I'm not on the right track Nolan

In a nutshell, versus tight 3-betting ranges we have to have a tight value 4-betting range. When we have a tight 4-bet value range then we have to tight 4-bet bluffing range (maybe even non-existent).

~16:30 you fold 88 IP after UTG Raise and MP flat. Why?

I feel like we discussed this in the video, but it's probably pretty close to a call just do to odds pre against the shorty. It's probably not a big deal either way though.

~32:30 you call 66 OOP SB. Why?

As I explained in the video, I think that his range is tight enough in this spot to set-mine even OOP. I do think it's a bit close though so I don't mind a fold or a call in this spot.

What's your general approach with PPs at NL400 in an already raised Pot?

It's a really broad question so it's difficult to answer in just a in a quick forum post. In a lot of spots OOP against stealers I am pretty unwilling to flat them. IP I am willing to play them to try to take some pots away. I've also been thinking about some other plays and stuff like that they I might discuss in a future video.

I think that Nolan is just sick and doesn't feel like he gets paid enough to answer the questions. Thats just my thought process anyway. I'm not trying to be a pain or anything but I was really disappointed with this video as I was excited Nolan was in it and, hoping to hear some thought processes while I learned a lot about big juicy burgers and hand cut potato French fries and the Pancake house. I have yet to find some great videos where they expand on ideas and really get me thinking.

That's fine.

In this video I don't think we were sacrificing strategy for the intent of discussing biscuits and gravy. Neither of us would do that. We had some dead time and didn't have any strategy to discuss so we shot the shit. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't expect every video to be revolutionary. Sometimes it's good to just have a video be laid back a little.

I feel like I've had a lot of interesting with fellow coaches in the Squadron series. For example, Paddy and I took one hand and spoke about it and how we would play our range in this particular hand for about 15 minutes. I feel like that is expanding on an idea...

Threads/Nolan,

Please watch a JK3A or WOT video and look how they respect members questions . Also is it difficult to create a video without the overlapping? This site set itself apart from other poker training sites with not only content, but video quality. Your video and the way you respond to fellow DC members is a slap in the face to everyone here. Be professional, its not that hard.

If you don't want to answer someone's question, isn't it better to just ignore it? There is no need to put the "As I explained in the video", obv. the person already heard you, and just wanted some expansion of your thoughts. Every question asked here was crystal clear.

Maybe since you admitted you "didn't have any strategy to discuss" (your post) you could answer questions. Instead you choose the counterproductive approach and talk down to members. I wasn't a big fan before, definitely won't be in the future. Be glad other coaches (and founders) are making up for your quality, strategy, and attitude or you would have less money on your paycheck.

That's fine.

In this video I don't think we were sacrificing strategy for the intent of discussing biscuits and gravy. Neither of us would do that. We had some dead time and didn't have any strategy to discuss so we shot the shit. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't expect every video to be revolutionary. Sometimes it's good to just have a video be laid back a little.

I feel like I've had a lot of interesting with fellow coaches in the Squadron series. For example, Paddy and I took one hand and spoke about it and how we would play our range in this particular hand for about 15 minutes. I feel like that is expanding on an idea...

You may not think theres anything wrong with that but I joined this site to learn not to hear about social lives. Thats what Facebook is for fwiw. Also to STxs999 I did feel degraded a bit as my question I left on the last video was completely ignored. I didn't know what to think if it was a bad question or you didn't respect me enough to even answer. I'm just trying to make you guys better coaches as I hope you guys are trying to make us better players.

" Also to STxs999 I did feel degraded a bit as my question I left on the last video was completely ignored"

Good point, I was just thinking ignoring would be better than the way he addressed the question.

I'm not degrading anyone. I didn't understand what the member asked me to clarify upon, sorry. The only people being smug or degrading are you two.

"You don't understand someone asking you clarify your thought process" is certainly a far more degrading statement than anything I have said here. Again, I did not understand exactly what the person would like me to clarify upon and needed more guidance to make sure I could help him.

However, most importantly, bringing what I get paid into the equation and even alluding to the fact that I give poor effort in reaction to my pay is ludicrous, slanderous, and wholly untrue. It is completely classless and unnecessary to even bring something like that up, and a massive personal attack on my character. I am sorry I didn't answer your question on the last video. If you actually took the time to look through my video history (which it is perfectly clear you did not) you will find that I try to answer questions to the best of my ability. I am sorry I had missed yours. To answer it here, no, backraising any pocketpair to a three bet is never good.

If you guys don't like my videos you fortunately have a large selection of other people to watch. I am not the same type of coach as everyone here and you will inevitably find someone you do not like. Unfortunately for me, you guys do not appreciate the style with which I produce videos. There are plenty of others who do however find a way to take something from what I put out. If you are appreciative of JK3A or WOT content that is excellent, because there are probably people out there who prefer other instructional styles over theirs.

Sorry I talked about the midwest, four tabling 9m with ratholers unfortunately leaves a lot of dead time, and I feel the sound of my breathing is less favorable to small talk.

Lastly, stxs999, stating that the way I make videos is a "slap in the face to everyone here" is yet another degrading comment from your corner. I'm not sure where you formed these opinions but it is clear from your posting that it is unlikely you will ever appreciate any of my content, and for this I am sorry. Good luck in your future endeavors.

FWIW I thought these last to FR squadron vids were great. Nolan is a legend in FR games and knows so many tiny things that other people overlook that his videos are always a must watch imo.

very classy response by nolan. i tend to agree that some of the remarks made were more degrading than anything nolan said or didn't say in response to previous questions. not every question will always get answered, sometimes a question or two gets lost in the convo between other questions or just overlooked. some questions may have already been answered in other question responses and thus dont feel the need to get reanswered. my thoughts imo.

Nolan,

"However, most importantly, bringing what I get paid into the equation and even alluding to the fact that I give poor effort in reaction "

You took my post out of context. I was referring to losing members by talking down to them. And read any of Thread's "As I explained in the video," or "I'm with ya, man. I felt like it was pretty well explained" or "I feel like we discussed this in the video" to back up my statement. If you will notice I was talking to both you. Calling me classless by simply calling you out on pathetic display of professionalism is beyond my capacity to address.

Furthermore, the quality I was alluding to was the overlapping, not necessarily the content. The strategy (possibly a shot at Threads for his own self deprecating comment about not having strategy to discuss) was not directed at you. The attitude was definitely directed at both you. I am done with this topic as it does not appear you can take any criticism well. Just keep in mind that most of us here are just trying to improve our game and have a lot of respect for you that are producing videos. People are obviously on different levels or want to make sure they understood what you were saying. Take the questions as compliments that people are interested in what you were saying or respect your game enough that they are trying to get there.

In a lot of spots OOP against stealers I am pretty unwilling to flat them. IP I am willing to play them to try to take some pots away. I've also been thinking about some other plays and stuff like that they I might discuss in a future video.

I'd be keen to see more discussion/vids on plays with PP's to take away pots without necessarily hitting sets. I'd like to see this compared/contrasted with playing SCs in the same spot (given that SCs usually have more chance of improving (equity) if they have hit at least a pair). Also, how does pre-flop Raiser defend against someone making such plays with wide holdings.

I feel like we discussed this in the video, but it's probably pretty close to a call just do to odds pre against the shorty. It's probably not a big deal either way though.

I think in the vid you and Nolan disagreed leaning slightly in opposite directions although you both thought it was close. To me, UTG Raise was a clear call as range was UTG (tight). However, you checked fold loooong before action got to you so you didn't even know what direct odds you were getting implying your thought process was less concerned with direct odds. UTG's stats looked tight. Do you have history that suggests otherwise? In particular the stats here looked similar to the 66 spot later where you called, so:

1. In the 88 spot vs the 66 spot the overall stats looked similar except 88 raiser was UTG (tighter) and 66 raiser was MP (looser) so pls explain how/why you decided the opposite on tightness/looseness? To me the 88 vs UTG + 2 callers was a clear call and the 66 vs looser MP range + OOP was a clear fold so I'm puzzled how you came to the opposite conclusion to the stats/positions. I can only figure the decision was based on specific player knowledge (which was not discusssed).

2. Set odds increase with multiple callers but our likelihood of successfully making a play increases heads-up so are you more likely to call with PP's (eg in the 88 hand) because MP flats giving you higher direct set-mining odds or less likely to flat because you can't really make a play when you don't hit and are 4-way?

I'd just like to say I like the vid and I like all the good-natured banter. I don't think it gets in the way of content at all and it is much better than dry vids. At least I don't fall asleep!

BTW, is it true that people from the mid-west have a scar on the side of their neck from where they remove the extra head at birth caused by all the inbreeding? {joking obviously}

"Pathetic display of professionalism"

???

"Pathetic display of professionalism"

???

I apologize on his behalf. Can we pls take any reply off thread. I'd like to talk about the content.

nonal makes best vids on site imo. i like the off topic convo. doesnt get in the way of the content and is casual in a good way. dont know how to explain it, but it helps me redirect focus. breaks up the repetitiveness that lot of other vids have.

Guys, please, this is not 2p2. Please focus on the task at hand, no personal attacks, judgements, etc.

Thanks,
Joe

You may not think theres anything wrong with that but I joined this site to learn not to hear about social lives. Thats what Facebook is for fwiw. Also to STxs999 I did feel degraded a bit as my question I left on the last video was completely ignored. I didn't know what to think if it was a bad question or you didn't respect me enough to even answer. I'm just trying to make you guys better coaches as I hope you guys are trying to make us better players.

I almost never post but this guy's been getting on my nerves. Instead of bitching about them filling dead time with friendly chatter, why not consider that social networking and getting to know your peers is a crucial aspect of success in every field including poker? Then you'd notice that A)they're doing it right and B)you're doing it wrong


edit: stars regs thread on 2p2, gogogo

I definitely wasn't trying to talk down to people at all. I'm a coach because I enjoy helping people. That's something that permeates throughout my life. Also, it is a goal of myself as a person, not just as a poker player, to not talk down to people... to treat people with respect. So, I'll try to be more aware of how things I could say could come off in the future.

I'm a pretty straightforward guy so if I think I explained something pretty well in the video I'm going to let you know that straight up. Now, if there is something specific that you want me to elaborate on (just to give an example... set-mining OOP... why it would be less profitable than IP... then I can take that and run with it) feel free to point that out and then I can certainly be of more help.

I think in the vid you and Nolan disagreed leaning slightly in opposite directions although you both thought it was close. To me, UTG Raise was a clear call as range was UTG (tight). However, you checked fold loooong before action got to you so you didn't even know what direct odds you were getting implying your thought process was less concerned with direct odds.

Ah yes... I think my checking it was more an example of just lazy thinking than anything. I saw short stacked raised and I just went to click the fold button. I wasn't paying attention to the action... was thinking about something else... or something like that. Not surprising because, as I mentioned, I think this is a pretty lackluster performance on my part.

UTG's stats looked tight. Do you have history that suggests otherwise? In particular the stats here looked similar to the 66 spot later where you called, so:

1. In the 88 spot vs the 66 spot the overall stats looked similar except 88 raiser was UTG (tighter) and 66 raiser was MP (looser) so pls explain how/why you decided the opposite on tightness/looseness? To me the 88 vs UTG + 2 callers was a clear call and the 66 vs looser MP range + OOP was a clear fold so I'm puzzled how you came to the opposite conclusion to the stats/positions. I can only figure the decision was based on specific player knowledge (which was not discusssed).

2. Set odds increase with multiple callers but our likelihood of successfully making a play increases heads-up so are you more likely to call with PP's (eg in the 88 hand) because MP flats giving you higher direct set-mining odds or less likely to flat because you can't really make a play when you don't hit and are 4-way?

It wasn't much of a decision so much on stats as it is on stack sizes. It's an interesting point that you're getting at.

With the deeper stacks in the 66 hand (100bb deep) I feel like we can just call to hit a 6. I think it's close and I wouldn't argue with a fold and, in fact, the more I think about it the more I agree with Nolan.

In the 88 hand we definitely can't call just to hit a set and fold otherwise against the preflop raiser(20bb deep). However, with the 88 hand the other callers give us better and better odds to just go with our hand UI. This is something that comes into play as the stacks get shorter. As the stacks get shorter our immediate pot odds preflop tell a much truer story of the how profitable a call is. When the stacks are really deep then making a call just because of preflop pot odds often is a rather sketchy argument. There is so much money left behind that the preflop pot odds aren't going to have much affect on the play. Some? Yes. Much? No.

To make the example clearer... If we are trying to cry pot odds and call with KTo versus and UTG raiser and 5 callers we really aren't getting enough pot odds 100bb deep. There are some major reverse implied odds that come into play when we are deep way more than implied odds help us so we actually need some really amazing pot odds to make a call. Maybe something like 12-to-1 would actually make me wanna call.

Now, if you make those stacks short our reverse implied odds go way, way down. Sure, our implied odds go down, but we didn't have much of them anyways. So the net affect is that our reverse implied odds go down WAY more than our implied odds do. Overall that's gain for us, meaning we don't need as good of pot odds as we would if we were deeper, so we can then make more speculative calls with less immediate pot odds when the stacks are shorter.

88 plays kinda similarly in this spot although it needs less favorable pot odds simply because it just is a stronger preflop hand than KTo.

I think that also answers your question about odds to set mine... but to elaborate... I don't think we ever have odds to set mine versus a 20bb stack's raise(I suppose it COULD happen... but that would take A LOT of callers ). However, I am more likely to call with multiple callers with 88 because I am going to go with my hand on flops and because I'm getting better odds with the additional callers. I just am getting enough odds when you consider the probability that I win some money postflop and that I have the best hand here sometimes.

If I were just set mining I would prefer to have more callers as I think the bigger pot will help me stack the preflop raiser more often. Also, the multi-way pot may make the raiser play more straightforwardly which could lead me to picking up a few uncontested pots postflop.

wow, what happened here!!!! wtf!!!!

Alright, i'm gonna be the voice of reason here, can't we all just get along and just say sorry and pretend like nothing happened = )

I think chris means well. I think he felt some of the content put out by the decent dc vids wasn't as good as the other content in the past. And some questions left weren't explained or ellaborated on enough that he might have wanted more.

On another note, I don't think as members of this training site should any of us be talked bad upon b/c there is some pretty bad stuff like classless and degraded,etc etc. I don't think any question is a stupid question. We just want to learn more. From what I'm getting out of this crazy thread, I think there was just a misunderstanding and I think we all mean well here and really respect DC, the coaches, and its members and that's why we continue to watch the great vids put out.


Well I had a question:
"backraising any pocketpair to a three bet is never good"
What if there is an aggressive 3bettor? What are we gonna wait for,AA,KK,AK? If he has a pretty aggressive 4 bet stat as well say 4 or 5 percent 4b range. When can we make a stand and get it in w/o waiting for a super premium hand? I guess i've had a lot of trouble in these spots because I'll finally play back with say AK and they'll shove and i'll either be dominated, or flipping with TT,JJ,QQ. Wouldn't we much rather be on the other end of the flip with 88+ against say AK?

Thanks and I hope we can make amends here because you guys are all great guys = )

Well I had a question:
"backraising any pocketpair to a three bet is never good"
What if there is an aggressive 3bettor? What are we gonna wait for,AA,KK,AK? If he has a pretty aggressive 4 bet stat as well say 4 or 5 percent 4b range. When can we make a stand and get it in w/o waiting for a super premium hand? I guess i've had a lot of trouble in these spots because I'll finally play back with say AK and they'll shove and i'll either be dominated, or flipping with TT,JJ,QQ. Wouldn't we much rather be on the other end of the flip with 88+ against say AK?

Thanks and I hope we can make amends here because you guys are all great guys = )

I have tried widening my backraise value range to 88+ vs what is mostly AT+ but it leads to higher variance against the player type that won't fold. You are inevitably in a flip at best. I don't know what to do against the wide 3B'ers without a fold button other than accept the high variance. Unfortunately they seem to run like God. And they don't seem to adjust so they don't slow down if you play back.

Ummm, leave the table?

I think the hate in this thread is pretty ridic.

The explanations given in video were both succinct and easy to understand.

Honestly I think people have tendency to want to be spoonfed information. They're reluctant to do any of the heavy lifting themselves, hoping to passively absorb content from watching a vid and improve because of it.

I'd argue first step when not understanding something you hear should be to hit pause, play it back then stop and think about the spot for a while.
Not understanding something immediately doesn't mean that the video is of poor quality.


Nolan, I really like your videos. There's a lot of great content and you give the impression that you enjoy making them. This moves things along well and keeps the process engaging. FRNL has a lot of downtime unless you're playing a tonne of tables and I appreciate that you guys managed to fill in the dead spots.

+1 for Nolan. Pretty much give his videos 80%+ of the credit for moving me up two or three stakes since I've been at DC.

I don't even play FR, yet I still watch every video Nolan puts out because the insight into his thought processes is invaluable.

+1 for Nolan. Pretty much give his videos 80%+ of the credit for moving me up two or three stakes since I've been at DC.

+2 Nolans videos are always excellent.

Nolan has his own style "tongue in cheek/Jersey Shore/Boston" attitude but I find the banter really entertaining.
His quips about ratholers and the sites being rigged always make me chuckle.

Most videos are so dry so it's great to break it up every now and again.

In life the one thing you learn is you will never make all the people happy all the time.

Nolan/Threads should accept that the vast majority very much enjoy what they are doing.

As for the 88 hand I think it was a good fold, as already explained it was a stack size issue (a SS and a guy with way under a full stack)

The SS will make post flop play difficult when you don't hit a set which negates position somewhat. (less free cards/moves possible)
Plus the half stack flat is probably not a strong range so we probably don't get paid off enough post flop when we hit our set.

Don't hate on Indiana, Nolan.

Great video, guys.

Where is episode Eight??

My Saturday wasn't as good without my FR Squadron fix, it was still a good day due to me winning 7.5 BI's ( gotta thank Nolan for the vids, ty man ) but still need that last episode.

Word.

Just wanted to let fans of FR Squadron know that we're back with two more episodes on Sat April 10 and Sat April 17!

Just wanted to let fans of FR Squadron know that we're back with two more episodes on Sat April 10 and Sat April 17!

You beauty!

LOL at the above discussion. Just catching up on these videos and they're really good, with a good dynamic. Don't think some DC members realize how lucky they are to have Nolan's vids; he crushes SO hard and is also really articulate, which isn't a combination which happens every day in the poker world.

Time Link to 00:53:46

What about overbet shove? Your SPR is pretty low, but even if someone calls, you have 2 overs and backdorrs...

What about overbet shove? Your SPR is pretty low, but even if someone calls, you have 2 overs and backdorrs...

I think the stack sizes are a little too big for an overbet shove. I like where the heart is at though. I think bet/calling is generally better because I don't expect those villains to perceive an overbet shove as stronger than a normal bet.

ah also just reopened browser to add that bet/calling a normal amount is definitely better in my opinion because it adds the possibility that one of them miraculously has a random flush draw and jams it and we actually get our money in good...