Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by BalugaWhale (Mid Stakes)

why you bet the T8 on turn if you are folding to shove? why not bet/call? it seems like he would easily shove with worse, maybe he picked up diamonds with his ace or maybe he has J9 trying to set up some fold equity. he might even have AK that he thinks is the nuts.

you say you want to create an aggressive preflop image, yet you fold obvious opens like Q9ss in CO and Ax on btn. maybe you fold Ax because i winn flips will 3bet you alot, but isnt that a good time to 4 bet him then?

When you have 88 on the right table on the Q9xhh flop, it seems to me that if youre not going to bet when youre ahead, charge draws/overs, get information about your hand and basically use position to your advantage you should just 3bet it preflop.

i liked the video and commentary though it was a little repetative (if thats a word)

1) do more videos!

2) do you have a link to the 2+2 thread or the SN again?

startrak-
T8 i think is an easy b/f on the turn vs this particular opponent (passive) who is unlikely to raise me without a hand stronger than my 2pair. However, I think hes likely to c/c me with a million hands that i beat. Thus, I bet for value, and fold when he comes over the top.
regarding Q9s, i dont even think I realized i folded it? id normally raise that. the point, though, is that preflop image comes more from the people that we reraise than from the open raises we make. open raising doesnt put people in difficult spots the same way that 3betting does.
regarding the 88 hand, im not worried about protection because my hand is pretty weak--i.e. a pair of 8s isnt really worth protecting. I could certainly cbet there, but if i do i cant expect to get called by worse or make a better hand fold, so its not a great bet (my hand might as well be 72). Also, there are a lot of turn and river cards that are better for me than the T and A, so i could certainly pick up a bluff or two checking it back. Once again though, nothing wrong with betting.

hey aspurin,

the thread is by chaostracize. If you search that name, you should find a thread a few months old called "3-betting and a problem of range choice" or something similar to that.

hey aspurin,

the thread is by chaostracize. If you search that name, you should find a thread a few months old called "3-betting and a problem of range choice" or something similar to that.

Here (easy when you have a thread bookmarked )

A Bad Habit of 3-betting and Range Choice - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?p=3008817#post3008817

hey aspurin,

the thread is by chaostracize. If you search that name, you should find a thread a few months old called "3-betting and a problem of range choice" or something similar to that.

dave already posted it. nm

Cool, thanks for answering.
I guess we just disagree about the T8, you would have to have a very strong read to lay that down. I think you had like 400 in the pot by then so to fold for the 600 youd have to be right close to 100% i would assume.

i guess this isnt as applicable to 5/10 as it might be to lower stakes, but the preflop raises does matter i think. especially to the multitabling regulars who only relies on your HUD stats and isnt necessarily paying enough attention to the table dynamics. i agree that 3betting does create even more pressure and more aggro image, but a lot of players mistakenly assume you 3bet a lot if your stats are 28/23 you know?

Often players bluff more when they have more money invested in the pot. He might think that if you didnt have any showdown value you would have bet at some point, so hes not going to try and bluff you if turn and river blanks and just show down his A high. I think theres a decent chance youll get called on flop by AhK or something similar. If you bet flop youre still controlling the pot size cause he will check to you on most turns. He has almost no 9s in his range and he bets most Qs and you might be able to barrel him off TT/JJ, i dunno.. i just think its an easy flop bet.

Baluga that was a very nice video! The psychology is what catched me most, very enjoyable to hear tips/ways to play a certain image , to bad you didn't get to stack a few players.
Hope to c some more vids from you, and as i aspire to become better hope to be able to affort you as my coach!
Gl at the tables

i really enjoyed this video

Great video had a ton of great content/ideas.

baluga, after watching 10 minutes of this video i stopped. you were going to bet fold that 10 8 hand LOLOLOL, when your hand looks so weak and he could be shoving a decent ace there for value? you talk about all this image bs, yet you fold q9s, you fold an ace on the button when folded to you, and there is even an extra 5 bucks out there. you should NOT be making videos.

baluga, after watching 10 minutes of this video i stopped. you were going to bet fold that 10 8 hand LOLOLOL, when your hand looks so weak and he could be shoving a decent ace there for value? you talk about all this image bs, yet you fold q9s, you fold an ace on the button when folded to you, and there is even an extra 5 bucks out there. you should NOT be making videos.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Baluga - good video thus far (20 minutes in), you're really good at explaining your thought processes for it being your first video.


Everyone else - I believe this is the post he was talking about regarding 3betting T9 or KQ: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=146036&highlight=

you should NOT be making videos.

LOLOLOL at this IMO.

Really great vid, hope to se alot more soon.

lol @ "fgators syndrome".

this video was better than i anticipated. :S

I would prefer if we could just let people continue to 3bet like monkey tho.

baluga, after watching 10 minutes of this video i stopped. you were going to bet fold that 10 8 hand LOLOLOL, when your hand looks so weak and he could be shoving a decent ace there for value? you talk about all this image bs, yet you fold q9s, you fold an ace on the button when folded to you, and there is even an extra 5 bucks out there. you should NOT be making videos.

explain?????
as for the BS stuff (u like to call it) i don't think it fits in these forums, we or hehehe all players might make mistakes but hey stop the BS thing or get banned IMO.
now,,,,,,contribute or shut up.

finally

Great vid, I feel alot more comfortable with this less commited style of play. Cant wait for next vid.

Really good video, really enjoyed seeing a different style played out with some awesome commentary. It would be great to see a series from you in the next season's line-up where you record a long 4-tabling session, and then afterwards overdub your commentary, so we can see a fuller version of your image building techniques in action.

All in all, great video with plenty of food for thought. Thanks.

Nice vid

good video , dont worry about that troll

yayyy balugas first vid

Andrew RULEZ!!!

nice video
how come u didnt open T9o on the button 16min in the video on the left table?

thanks for the love guys
zwolfe-
a few things. There is a big difference between facing a c/shove from a good, aggressive player on the turn there and facing a c/shove from a passive player. Two pair looks great vs someone aggro. On that board, it looks pretty bad vs someone passive. I didnt think the player in that hand was likely to shove A+draw or J9. Even if he could, he needs to have a draw wayyyy more often than a stronger hand because of equity--i explain this concept in the vid. Im not sure why I folded Q9s, ill have to rewatch it.

As for Axo otb and T9o otb, as I said in the video, these certainly could be raises, but one thing my students will tell you-- i dont really love offsuit cards, and I don't feel like I'm missing much from leaving some of them out.
remember guys, this is NO-Limit, and the blinds don't really matter.

Baluga - you don't have to beat around the bush, just tell 'em already. The key to NLHE is making flushes, and you can't do that as easily with offsuit cards.

That's one happy looking dog

best video i've seen in a while!

Very nice. Thank-you.

Baluga - you don't have to beat around the bush, just tell 'em already. The key to NLHE is making flushes, and you can't do that as easily with offsuit cards.

I disagree you can make 2 flushes with offsuit cards and only 1 with suited. Didn't think of THAT now did you?

This was a very interesting video with intersting concepts and another style of playing as used to see.
Hope to see more from you.

im not trying to be a dick here, i really liked the video.
if you came into this session readless, i dont see how you can categorize him as passive and non bluffy after the basically first thing you see him do is pot it into 2 players not as pfr and then just check fold turn. this shows he was at least semibluffing the flop. That combined with the unlikelihood of him having 888 or TTT cause of your holding and how often he really pots it with a strong made hand on that board which is one that hit your UTG raising range pretty hard. im not that familiar with this - but i think youre getting better than 2:1 on the turn and given how drawy the board just got and how likely i think he is to ship in AJ+ i thinks its a really easy bet/call.

I've been wondering if and when you'd do a ghost vid. definitely worth the wait. really high quality vid and looking forward to future ones.

startrak-
haha dont worry man, in my view youre not coming off as a dick. Now, to your points--

you may have noticed I didnt play with a HUD. That's because I don't play with a HUD, i get my reads from easier stuff. For example, with this particular villain, I had played one orbit and he had either limped, minraised, or done both in that one orbit before i started recording. I think he may have been on another table with a half-stack as well. Right off the bat, my read is going to say "passive" until proven otherwise.
I think his potting into 2 players is either top pair, a monster, or air. Had the pot been HU, i wouldve raised here and tried to get it in with an A, but with the fish behind it seemed better to call and see the turn (hoping the fish came along). Once the turn card comes, and he checks, I think his most likely hand is now an A (which i'm pretty sure he won't c/r unless he 2pairs on the turn), followed by air, followed by monsters. If i don't think he c/r air or an A (which is apparently where we disagree), then i have to fold if he c/r.
Another thing to think about is to consider the equity of his hand vs mine. If he has, say AJo he has 8 outs. That's best case scenario. If he has A7 with a FD, he has 23 outs and is a favorite vs me. My point, as i tried to explain in the video, is that just being ahead most of the time isnt enough-- the equity has to work out. And, in that case, I'm pretty sure it doesnt, as i'm drawing close to dead when behind, and hes always drawing live.

Say this is his range for check shoving the turn, you still have odds to call. You might not think he ships AQ/AJdd on turn, but I gave him calling every A8o preflop, its still not even close. you have to remove AKo in this range for it to be close, and even then shouldnt this be swayed towards a call and the proper adjustmest can be made after that considering how close it is, he is a fish and might spazz out even though hes passive and how likely it is that you make a mistake by folding?

this is prolly a dead topic right about now, so agree to disagree and thanks for taking the time to answer.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,320 games 0.005 secs 264,000 games/sec

Board: Ac Td 8s 6d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.500% 42.50% 00.00% 561 0.00 { Th8h }
Hand 1: 57.500% 57.50% 00.00% 759 0.00 { TT, 88, AKs, AdQd, AdJd, ATs, A8s, Ad7d, Jd9d, AKo, ATo, A8o }

from my microstakes experience and coaching, i agree with the statement in the video that most people dont bet/fold enough against passives. also, great vid overall, very interesting way to think about the game and its actually caused me to remember some stuff from our coaching that got buried a long time ago!

Watched the first half of this during breakfast, def liking the discussion of image and 3betting. I think you did miss some obv opens in LP, however I am pretty sure you normally make these. I know from experience that when making a video, especially when you're deep in thought trying to explain something, you can make some little mistakes on the tables that you normally don't. I have noticed this in my videos, as I will get lazy with bet sizing, or just autofold some hands because I am all wrapped up in my oration. Good video Baluga, looking forward to future vids!

I enjoyed this video very much and hope you make another one soon. What you talk about in this video is something that I've been intuitively trying to do at lower stakes (not as much because even regs are making a lot of preflop mistakes) and your commentary help develop my thought process into something more tangible.

People bring up the T8 hand and say check/folding the turn is bad (maybe it is maybe its not) but the KQ hand where you fold the flop and ran into two sets was pretty sick. That's a spot where I pretty much always call because, hey, I has TP2K against bad players and I'm getting like 32450926435874 to 1 lolz.

Also the hand where you fold TPWK on the T9x board to the overbet from the player that had overbet AA earlier in the session was example of a hand I sometimes call when I'm not playing my A game. Its something that I think a lot of lower stakes players struggle with and that's folding hands that have very poor relative value against villain's range of hands.

Sometimes I have to tell myself, folding is ok, they give you a fold button for a reason, use it!

One of the better videos i think on the site. Only thing negative i could say is i think u raised the buttton to tightly. Saw u fold like A9o and k8o etc on the button whivh should be ez rasies IMO. Other wise great video

I haven't really watched the video yet but I trust it's a solid vid, thanks for making this baluga.

I have to be a nit here, the end of one of your replies,

remember guys, this is NO-Limit, and the blinds don't really matter.

I have to disagree with this wholeheartedly. When it all boils down to it, I'd think our goal would be exactly that: winning the blinds.

sure AMT. on its most basic level, poker is about winnning the blinds. If there were no blinds, nobody would play without AA.
So lets compare limit and no limit. In limit, you risk a small amount for a potentially huge payoff with little drawback when you steal the blinds. risking 2 small bets to win 1.5 small bets is a good deal.
in NL, the game is about implied odds and reverse implied odds. Winning 1.5bb is nice, but not really the goal. CTS wrote once that he doesnt play loose from the button to win the blinds, he plays loose from the button to play pots with the blinds. So basically, i think winning 1.5bb is nice, but I know that the really important stuff happens postflop.
Thus, when I fold a hand like K8o, its very much on purpose-- that hand sucks horribly to play postflop, even if i can make 1.5bb by taking the blinds.
On the other hand, Q9s should have been an obvious raise and i dont know why i missed that.

goldseraph is right by the way, its easy to make small mistakes while youre trying to explain larger concepts.

Very good video, enjoyed it alot. Good discussion, you convey your thoughts well. As far as missing some opens, I think that's just because your busy discussing things and just miss it. I notice if im on the phone or whatnot I'll play tight and miss those just from being kind of distracted, not a big deal.
Edit: I also think 2 tables is perfect for videos, any more is too many, and one is too few, imo.

That was like the Citizen Kane of poker videos, really great stuff.. I think of all the vids I've seen I got the most out of this one.. and that's saying a lot since there weren't that many post flop spots.. I really like how you explained image and what to do against different player types and will try to implement that next time I play, thanks for a great vid.. more plz.

Very interesting concepts, you also explain really well. The second you started about how is my equity when ahead vs equity when behind I instantly thought about the overpair vs big draw/set situation where most of us (or I at least) still instantly stack off. I've seen this in other vids the "He has a draw here a lot" mentality even though it's a flip against a combo draw.

I still sometimes have issues with my image if I get a run of good/decent hands, where my image gets influenced by my cards rather than myself actively controlling image. I think should adjust quicker and possibly stay away from marginal spots.

Great way to put into words what we lower stakes players still try/think about/experiment with. Keep 'em coming.

Very good video and an interesting fresh angle on 3betting etc, made me question some of the official mantra, which is always a good thing.

I hate this video! It only takes an hour to watch, but I need to spend way more time thinking about the stuff ;-)

Thanks for opening my eyes to a different strategy. Can we expect more videos from you in the near future?

hey guys,

thx for the feedback. to be perfectly honest i didnt think was as good as I could do in terms of videos, as youre right--not a whole lot did happen. I didn't get into too many cool or interesting spots, so I talked in abstracts most of the time.

I think you can expect at least a few more vids in the future, probably at varying limits.

Andrew

I've played in these particular games for over a year and well....please just stfu b/c I agree with almost everything you say and just plz plz shhhhhhhh. srsly, v good video.

I really liked your commentary about image and the difference between an image you create as opposed to an image you have because you are running good/bad

i think you missed a few +EV btn/co opens which would also build an aggressive image as well

as for the guys complaining about lack of action, this is the reality of 2 tabling for an hour/100 hands of poker, off the wall action isn't guaranteed and he definitely shouldn't force it and it's not like hes going to keep remaking videos until he makes an action packed video

great video, very intresting thoughts/ideas.

Very nice!

Got to say, this is one of the most thought provoking midstakes vids I have seen in a while.

Excellent.

baluga, what is ur thought process on bet sizing in 3bet pots. Jw why you usually bet a larger amount then most players and how you choose a particular betsize. Board texture, stack size, psychology? Thanks

great video, perhaps the greatest video ever on DC!(IMO)

more plz

youre right about not too many interesting spots came up, but wth, the commentary was superb dude!

and plz if u make another video in the future, do it at 5/10 or above plz, thx!

I got a whole new view on 3betting pre and the reasons to do so. Cant wait to see your next vid.

A couple times you refer to flatting QQ KK and always 3bing AA because it can cooler more stuff.
Ofcourse I can´t disagree with that statement
However KK for example is a great hand preflop, if an ace comes to the board you can't really CR a lot of flops with it anymore and your handvalues goes down a lot compared to preflop. (also lose loads of value against QQ JJ who'd pay you off if you'd 3b pre)
I think that's something to keep in mind before flatting KK preflop, also KK still coolers a lot of his range.

An excellent illuminating vid, should be watched (or listened to) more than once.

One of the best videos i've seen so far.
I really liked the type of "concept video" where you talk about the concept in theory and then just take hands that come up and take them as a example for this concept and how your game within that concept would change if your history was ...,etc.

10/10 imo.

Very nice video Baluga, keep up the good work!

Wow, amazing video, hope you do plenty more.

How come you raise the river with J,2o when you hit your two pair??? I don't see a single hand that we beat calling that river raise. Another thing that confuses me is that if we raise and he folds and you just muck, you are not establishing any kind of image.

very very good video

Wow that was unbelievable. I am just moving from the standard winning small stakes strategy and after doing fine at 400nl and some 600nl am only now finally really understanding why 3betting a EP TAG raiser with AQ and JJ without history sux so much. To hear someone as good as you say that we can do it with AK/QQ also is nice to hear after everyone always saying that we have to raise there all the time.

Youre articles were also amazing.

You helped my game alot. Thank you. Hope to see more of your stuff.

your words per minute rate is right up there with Andre3000's in Bombs over Bagdad.


great video btw.

Very thought provoking video despite the fact that many great situations failed to come up. I got a lot out of this. Thanks much baluga.

to be perfectly honest i didnt think was as good as I could do in terms of videos, as youre right--not a whole lot did happen. I didn't get into too many cool or interesting spots, so I talked in abstracts most of the time.

In my opinion, that's even better!
Great video, thanks!

..

Hope somebody will read this:

The AQ hand at 12:30:
Baluga gave all the right reasons for not barreling that board. But why cbet this flop at all? We don't have much fold equity because all his pocket pairs look really good on that board. Plus we're ahead of all of his random overcards. Doesn't betting just fold out all his worse hands? He has 6 outs (often less) so we shouldn't be too worried about giving him free cards either.
Also he is unlikely to bluff us since he is passive. So I think we can check this down a lot and have the best hand at showdown a fair amount of the time.


I don't play these stakes but I think the player types are the same. And in this spot I'd rather wait to flop a pair and send this guy to valuetown.

he is unlikely to bluff us since he is passive

Thats why checking is bad. It doesnt matter what we have, we just bet for him to fold. As Andrew said he expects that bad player to have a lot of unimproved overcards and to check/fold them. Plus if the guy has pair he usually just check/calls and we see a river/showdown often.
Against aggresive player though, whos gonna ch/r a lot, checking back would be better, cuz we can induce some action.