why you bet the T8 on turn if you are folding to shove? why not bet/call? it seems like he would easily shove with worse, maybe he picked up diamonds with his ace or maybe he has J9 trying to set up some fold equity. he might even have AK that he thinks is the nuts.

you say you want to create an aggressive preflop image, yet you fold obvious opens like Q9ss in CO and Ax on btn. maybe you fold Ax because i winn flips will 3bet you alot, but isnt that a good time to 4 bet him then?

When you have 88 on the right table on the Q9xhh flop, it seems to me that if youre not going to bet when youre ahead, charge draws/overs, get information about your hand and basically use position to your advantage you should just 3bet it preflop.

i liked the video and commentary though it was a little repetative (if thats a word)

startrak-
T8 i think is an easy b/f on the turn vs this particular opponent (passive) who is unlikely to raise me without a hand stronger than my 2pair. However, I think hes likely to c/c me with a million hands that i beat. Thus, I bet for value, and fold when he comes over the top.
regarding Q9s, i dont even think I realized i folded it? id normally raise that. the point, though, is that preflop image comes more from the people that we reraise than from the open raises we make. open raising doesnt put people in difficult spots the same way that 3betting does.
regarding the 88 hand, im not worried about protection because my hand is pretty weak--i.e. a pair of 8s isnt really worth protecting. I could certainly cbet there, but if i do i cant expect to get called by worse or make a better hand fold, so its not a great bet (my hand might as well be 72). Also, there are a lot of turn and river cards that are better for me than the T and A, so i could certainly pick up a bluff or two checking it back. Once again though, nothing wrong with betting.

hey aspurin,

the thread is by chaostracize. If you search that name, you should find a thread a few months old called "3-betting and a problem of range choice" or something similar to that.

Here (easy when you have a thread bookmarked :) )

A Bad Habit of 3-betting and Range Choice - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?p=3008817#post3008817

Cool, thanks for answering.
I guess we just disagree about the T8, you would have to have a very strong read to lay that down. I think you had like 400 in the pot by then so to fold for the 600 youd have to be right close to 100% i would assume.

i guess this isnt as applicable to 5/10 as it might be to lower stakes, but the preflop raises does matter i think. especially to the multitabling regulars who only relies on your HUD stats and isnt necessarily paying enough attention to the table dynamics. i agree that 3betting does create even more pressure and more aggro image, but a lot of players mistakenly assume you 3bet a lot if your stats are 28/23 you know?

Often players bluff more when they have more money invested in the pot. He might think that if you didnt have any showdown value you would have bet at some point, so hes not going to try and bluff you if turn and river blanks and just show down his A high. I think theres a decent chance youll get called on flop by AhK or something similar. If you bet flop youre still controlling the pot size cause he will check to you on most turns. He has almost no 9s in his range and he bets most Qs and you might be able to barrel him off TT/JJ, i dunno.. i just think its an easy flop bet.

i really enjoyed this video

baluga, after watching 10 minutes of this video i stopped. you were going to bet fold that 10 8 hand LOLOLOL, when your hand looks so weak and he could be shoving a decent ace there for value? you talk about all this image bs, yet you fold q9s, you fold an ace on the button when folded to you, and there is even an extra 5 bucks out there. you should NOT be making videos.

you should NOT be making videos.

LOLOLOL at this IMO.

lol @ "fgators syndrome".

this video was better than i anticipated. :S

I would prefer if we could just let people continue to 3bet like monkey tho.

finally

Really good video, really enjoyed seeing a different style played out with some awesome commentary. It would be great to see a series from you in the next season's line-up where you record a long 4-tabling session, and then afterwards overdub your commentary, so we can see a fuller version of your image building techniques in action.

All in all, great video with plenty of food for thought. Thanks.

good video , dont worry about that troll :)

Andrew RULEZ!!!

thanks for the love guys
zwolfe-
a few things. There is a big difference between facing a c/shove from a good, aggressive player on the turn there and facing a c/shove from a passive player. Two pair looks great vs someone aggro. On that board, it looks pretty bad vs someone passive. I didnt think the player in that hand was likely to shove A+draw or J9. Even if he could, he needs to have a draw wayyyy more often than a stronger hand because of equity--i explain this concept in the vid. Im not sure why I folded Q9s, ill have to rewatch it.

As for Axo otb and T9o otb, as I said in the video, these certainly could be raises, but one thing my students will tell you-- i dont really love offsuit cards, and I don't feel like I'm missing much from leaving some of them out.
remember guys, this is NO-Limit, and the blinds don't really matter.

That's one happy looking dog

Very nice. Thank-you.

This was a very interesting video with intersting concepts and another style of playing as used to see.
Hope to see more from you.

I've been wondering if and when you'd do a ghost vid. definitely worth the wait. really high quality vid and looking forward to future ones.

Say this is his range for check shoving the turn, you still have odds to call. You might not think he ships AQ/AJdd on turn, but I gave him calling every A8o preflop, its still not even close. you have to remove AKo in this range for it to be close, and even then shouldnt this be swayed towards a call and the proper adjustmest can be made after that considering how close it is, he is a fish and might spazz out even though hes passive and how likely it is that you make a mistake by folding?

this is prolly a dead topic right about now, so agree to disagree and thanks for taking the time to answer.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,320 games 0.005 secs 264,000 games/sec

Board: Ac Td 8s 6d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.500% 42.50% 00.00% 561 0.00 { Th8h }
Hand 1: 57.500% 57.50% 00.00% 759 0.00 { TT, 88, AKs, AdQd, AdJd, ATs, A8s, Ad7d, Jd9d, AKo, ATo, A8o }

Watched the first half of this during breakfast, def liking the discussion of image and 3betting. I think you did miss some obv opens in LP, however I am pretty sure you normally make these. I know from experience that when making a video, especially when you're deep in thought trying to explain something, you can make some little mistakes on the tables that you normally don't. I have noticed this in my videos, as I will get lazy with bet sizing, or just autofold some hands because I am all wrapped up in my oration. Good video Baluga, looking forward to future vids!

One of the better videos i think on the site. Only thing negative i could say is i think u raised the buttton to tightly. Saw u fold like A9o and k8o etc on the button whivh should be ez rasies IMO. Other wise great video

sure AMT. on its most basic level, poker is about winnning the blinds. If there were no blinds, nobody would play without AA.
So lets compare limit and no limit. In limit, you risk a small amount for a potentially huge payoff with little drawback when you steal the blinds. risking 2 small bets to win 1.5 small bets is a good deal.
in NL, the game is about implied odds and reverse implied odds. Winning 1.5bb is nice, but not really the goal. CTS wrote once that he doesnt play loose from the button to win the blinds, he plays loose from the button to play pots with the blinds. So basically, i think winning 1.5bb is nice, but I know that the really important stuff happens postflop.
Thus, when I fold a hand like K8o, its very much on purpose-- that hand sucks horribly to play postflop, even if i can make 1.5bb by taking the blinds.
On the other hand, Q9s should have been an obvious raise and i dont know why i missed that.

goldseraph is right by the way, its easy to make small mistakes while youre trying to explain larger concepts.

That was like the Citizen Kane of poker videos, really great stuff.. I think of all the vids I've seen I got the most out of this one.. and that's saying a lot since there weren't that many post flop spots.. I really like how you explained image and what to do against different player types and will try to implement that next time I play, thanks for a great vid.. more plz.

Very good video and an interesting fresh angle on 3betting etc, made me question some of the official mantra, which is always a good thing.

hey guys,

thx for the feedback. to be perfectly honest i didnt think was as good as I could do in terms of videos, as youre right--not a whole lot did happen. I didn't get into too many cool or interesting spots, so I talked in abstracts most of the time.

I think you can expect at least a few more vids in the future, probably at varying limits.

Andrew

I really liked your commentary about image and the difference between an image you create as opposed to an image you have because you are running good/bad

i think you missed a few +EV btn/co opens which would also build an aggressive image as well

as for the guys complaining about lack of action, this is the reality of 2 tabling for an hour/100 hands of poker, off the wall action isn't guaranteed and he definitely shouldn't force it and it's not like hes going to keep remaking videos until he makes an action packed video

Very nice!

baluga, what is ur thought process on bet sizing in 3bet pots. Jw why you usually bet a larger amount then most players and how you choose a particular betsize. Board texture, stack size, psychology? Thanks

youre right about not too many interesting spots came up, but wth, the commentary was superb dude!

and plz if u make another video in the future, do it at 5/10 or above plz, thx!

A couple times you refer to flatting QQ KK and always 3bing AA because it can cooler more stuff.
Ofcourse I can´t disagree with that statement
However KK for example is a great hand preflop, if an ace comes to the board you can't really CR a lot of flops with it anymore and your handvalues goes down a lot compared to preflop. (also lose loads of value against QQ JJ who'd pay you off if you'd 3b pre)
I think that's something to keep in mind before flatting KK preflop, also KK still coolers a lot of his range.

One of the best videos i've seen so far.
I really liked the type of "concept video" where you talk about the concept in theory and then just take hands that come up and take them as a example for this concept and how your game within that concept would change if your history was ...,etc.

10/10 imo.

Wow, amazing video, hope you do plenty more.

very very good video

your words per minute rate is right up there with Andre3000's in Bombs over Bagdad.


great video btw.