Poker Video: Stud/Stud 8 by ceegee (Mid Stakes)

I liked the analysis in the vid. This is actually very well timed as I need to brush up (learn how to play) some of the stud games for the mixed games that run.

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/1039-CeeGee-1-Decisions-on-3rd-Street-of-7-Card-Stud?seek=751

Here, I'm not sure if it was because you were talking and didn't see, but with two T's dead is this a fold instead of a limp? Or our hand still strong enough to play?

Thanks, looking forward to more.

Time Link to 00:13:00

Your reasoning is good here but you forgot some very important things:

1. to FOLD 4th! (for all the reasons you gave about the xxKc9c hand.
2. The pot was also limped, so only one SB went in on 3rd (5 players for .50 each - rake = 1 SB)
3. You are not closing the action, who knows what could happen behind you here.

Must fold 4th in this spot.

Solid vid overall, keep up the good work.

http://www.deucescracked.com/videos/1039-CeeGee-1-Decisions-on-3rd-Street-of-7-Card-Stud?seek=751

Here, I'm not sure if it was because you were talking and didn't see, but with two T's dead is this a fold instead of a limp? Or our hand still strong enough to play?

Oh wow, I even missed that. Yes it's a fold w/two Ts dead there, I'm sure CeeGee missed it. (it is his first vid here after all, good job too, imo)

Woo, good timing. Started playing $1/2 Stud Hi this weekend on Full Tilt. Decided yesterday morning (randomly) to actually find a use for Super System and whose section would be better to look at than the late, great Chip Reese's? I feel like I have a big skill advantage over most of the players I've played so far in terms of basic hand reading etc. Running good I presume but I'm already up over 50BB after a couple hundred hands. There always seems to be at least one big table donator every time I've played.

This video went back over the basics for me but it was good to see I've been doing most things right and just finding areas where I may need to tweak a little, such as memorising cards.

How hard is it multi-tabling this game? I'd imagine more than 3 or 4 tables isn't really feasible if you want to bring your A-game on all of them. What BB/100s are possible? Higher than the usual Full Ring NLHE or Limit Hold'em games? It often feels like you can exploit really bad players a lot easier sometimes.

Thanks for the video. I shall be seeking out Joe Tall's video that you mentioned and hopefully be looking forward to more from yourself.

Ya I missed those 2 dead tens as I was talking while the hand was dealt (I am new to explaining thoughts well while I play ) If you notice the second I start talking about my hand is when both tens just folded.
But ya I agree with Joe Talls analysis here.

How hard is it multi-tabling this game? I'd imagine more than 3 or 4 tables isn't really feasible if you want to bring your A-game on all of them. What BB/100s are possible? Higher than the usual Full Ring NLHE or Limit Hold'em games? It often feels like you can exploit really bad players a lot easier sometimes.

I would say if you are just starting out to 1 table for sure. It may be frustrating as you HAVE to be patient in Stud, but the reward will be great as you will be able to notice patterns much easier at the table. As a general rule I myself rarely play more than 2 tables, but have played up to 4 tables profitably in the past, but I definitely missed opportunities to extract the maximum value. (IE. I played like a robot.)
So I advise 1-2 tables at most for stud games.

On the topic of upcards, figured this was appropriate to include for those that haven't stumbled across it yet; useful stuff on card memory imo.

http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=107599&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&vc=1

http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=107695&an=&page=0&vc=1

nice video sir

keep drinkin THOSE MOUNTAIN DEWS BABY

Thanks CeeGee! Def looking forward to watching this!

Very useful video. It definitely helped my game.

But... every time you stop talking for a second and start a new phrase, you do this really annoying smacking thing with your mouth. There are some really strong ones around the 41:45 minute mark. I had to keep stopping the video and walking away every fifteen minutes or so.

It was mentioned that this was your first video, so you've probably never really heard yourself speak for long periods of time.

Anyway... great content, great analysis, and stop it with the smacking thing.

Ya I kinda realized this after the fact and it was too late =[
I'm really sorry and if it helps I hate it too

CeeGee:

Overall, I enjoyed this video. Well done.

I thought a couple of things were perhaps off a bit:

(1) At one point, holding something like a pair of tens on 4th, you advocated for a fold when the player to your right bet into you showing King-Queen on board and a field of maybe 3 players behind you. While I agree a fold is warranted, you stated that a raise was not advised because we don't want to isolate against a stronger holding. While that may be true on 4th street with a small pot, in general it is probably not good advice: holding a hand that is likely to end up as two pair, we do want to narrow the field as much as possible, even if it means putting in an extra bet to clear the field and get us against a probable bigger pair. This is especially true if the pot is already large.

As a more general point, I didn't think you emphasized nearly enough how important it is to be heads up for certain types of hands. A middle pair with an overcard kicker plays just fine heads up against a bigger pair. But even three-way it loses most of its value.

(2) I thought you played quite aggressively with your 3-flushes on 3rd, without too much differentiation between a big three flush and a small one. I don't like the idea of getting heads up against a big pair with only one overcard in our 3-flush, especially if the overcard is our door card. It's not a terrible situation, but it's not one we really want to produce --- I think you raised in EP once with a J72 three-flush. That strikes me as a bit spewy.

Anyway, looking forward to more videos. Take all this as constructive criticism; overall you did a great job.

sarah

I agree with your ideas about playing a pair of tens on 4th. I should have explained better the idea I started to develop. The main reason for folding is because he catches so well that we are likely big dog to his range especially after he played his queens hand passively just like this one. The problem with raising in a spot like this however is that 1. we are a dog to his range (and most peoples range with these two cards showing)
2. If we are to raise to thin the field its likely better to wait to 5th to see how the hand develops as our hand is pretty janky right now and if we raise and he catches another suit we have invested more money into the pot and the hand becomes more tricky to play. There are a lot of cards villain can catch here that really discourages us from continuing in the hand so TBH if I were to continue (which I am almost never in this spot) I would likely call not raise even with the people behind as they aren't going anywhere anyway if 4th helped their drawing hands. And if we do get it HU (best situation in this spot) we still hate our hand against villains range. The best play is to fold, but I would think in a multiway pot where we don't have a ton of fold equity when we have what looks like two janky cards. fold > call > raise. If we could definitely get it HU I would lean more towards raising, but it's hard to do that in these games. It's better to play the hand more passively (like that in the loose section of 7csfa) Just fold tho.

As for why I played my 3 flushes aggressively, it is because I like to balance my range on 3rd so I tend to be more on the looser side when it comes to 3rd decisions. Live 3 flushes are great hands and if you constantly limp these first in or along with everyone else you will be easily read by good players, also I don't think I raise low door card flushes unless there has been someone that entered the pot already or it is very live and I expect people to call behind me. If I am in a very tight agressive game I may upfront limp a small 3 flush as you are right in saying these hands don't do well HU.

Really enjoyed video. Make more.
One thing I struggle with that I hear you and Joe Tall talk about alot is my opponent caught good or caught bad. Due to my lack of experience I would enjoy some more discussion on hand reading of your opponents and how you should respond to how they catch.

Thanks

I agree with your ideas about playing a pair of tens on 4th. I should have explained better the idea I started to develop. The main reason for folding is because he catches so well that we are likely big dog to his range especially after he played his queens hand passively just like this one. The problem with raising in a spot like this however is that 1. we are a dog to his range (and most peoples range with these two cards showing)
2. If we are to raise to thin the field its likely better to wait to 5th to see how the hand develops as our hand is pretty janky right now and if we raise and he catches another suit we have invested more money into the pot and the hand becomes more tricky to play. There are a lot of cards villain can catch here that really discourages us from continuing in the hand so TBH if I were to continue (which I am almost never in this spot) I would likely call not raise even with the people behind as they aren't going anywhere anyway if 4th helped their drawing hands. And if we do get it HU (best situation in this spot) we still hate our hand against villains range. The best play is to fold, but I would think in a multiway pot where we don't have a ton of fold equity when we have what looks like two janky cards. fold > call > raise. If we could definitely get it HU I would lean more towards raising, but it's hard to do that in these games. It's better to play the hand more passively (like that in the loose section of 7csfa) Just fold tho.

As for why I played my 3 flushes aggressively, it is because I like to balance my range on 3rd so I tend to be more on the looser side when it comes to 3rd decisions. Live 3 flushes are great hands and if you constantly limp these first in or along with everyone else you will be easily read by good players, also I don't think I raise low door card flushes unless there has been someone that entered the pot already or it is very live and I expect people to call behind me. If I am in a very tight agressive game I may upfront limp a small 3 flush as you are right in saying these hands don't do well HU.

Thanks for the comments CeeGee, very informative.

sarah

Great video.

I just wanted to say that I believe this type of format has been the best for me as I try to learn new games. When I see people teach from individual hands in a replayer it definitely helps, but a continuous session is soooo good for me!!! It may be overlooked by non-newbies to a game, but simply seeing what types of hands you are folding on which streets and hearing why is often just as important, or even more, as how to play your good hands. After all, its much easier to play a good hand good than it is to try to play a bad hand good. Anyways, good job and I look forward to more.

Great video.

I just wanted to say that I believe this type of format has been the best for me as I try to learn new games. When I see people teach from individual hands in a replayer it definitely helps, but a continuous session is soooo good for me!!! It may be overlooked by non-newbies to a game, but simply seeing what types of hands you are folding on which streets and hearing why is often just as important, or even more, as how to play your good hands. After all, its much easier to play a good hand good than it is to try to play a bad hand good. Anyways, good job and I look forward to more.

I couldn't agree more. The importance of folding a bad hand in stud is just as important if not more important than playing your good hands.

Time Link to 00:24:38

Seemed fairly obvious that he had a big hand just because he couldn't rep anything so I don't see him bluffing here ever.

Time Link to 00:27:53

How much does deception play a part in what you do with certain hands?

It seems like when you raise here your hand is pretty face up. You either have a hand similar to the one you are holding, a big pair maybe or rolled up.

Seemed fairly obvious that he had a big hand just because he couldn't rep anything so I don't see him bluffing here ever.

We kinda got trapped in that hand. We did have outs to two pair if he had a big pair in the hole or two pair like nines and deuces or fives and deuces etc. The only hand we really hate is if he tripped up here. It's more likely he has a big pair. Don't count out that he may have a 4 straight and wanted to take a free card with a hand like 2345. His range is definitely wider than just strength. He could have hit a 9 with a 3 flush and noticed we hit bad and raised. I do agree we can make an argument for folding the river when he bets so quickly. Now that I know he waited till 5th to check raise I'll make a note and it will allow me to fold in the future.

How much does deception play a part in what you do with certain hands?

It seems like when you raise here your hand is pretty face up. You either have a hand similar to the one you are holding, a big pair maybe or rolled up.

That's enough deception to keep people guessing tho. It helps if we have an over with our flush as well. The way you keep deception when you get raised on 3rd is always 4 betting or always flatting. At the bigger stakes you will often see people 4 bet gutshots just to keep that balance and deception

Ironic that the guy to your right is named CG imo

Time Link to 00:16:04

Well crap. My comment isn't so clever now that you pointed it out as well haha.

Time Link to 00:31:04

"He plays terribly, terribly incorrect" LOL

Thanks CeeGee! Def looking forward to watching this! -TecmoSuperBowl

You know tecmo, usually when I say I am looking forward to watching something I get it done within a year. Just saying

You know tecmo, usually when I say I am looking forward to watching something I get it done within a year. Just saying

Clearly we just have different schedules imo

better late than never imo

Sorry I don't have a time link but I was just going over my notes, and I found a question. You said that you dont want to chase in stud, so take for example that you know a player have a flush and you have trips, isn't it okay to "chase" the fh's as we in most cases will have 6 outs to the best hand?

well it was kind of a broad statement. Sure there are spots where the pot is right to chase if you have the right odds. An example would be if you know they have two pair and you have aces, but the pot is relatively large and he would pay a bet off on the river if you make your hand.

Okay thank you for clearing that up.