Episode Five
Episode Five
Whitelime plays some $.5/1 PLO while Vanessa observes and gives her thought process. Episodes focus on much of the discussion and critiques of whitelime's game from episodes 1 and 2.
tags: vanessa selbst whitelime omaha plo $100plo fslexcduck 2-tabling
This Series: 2 X 6
Vanessa shows whitelime how to not lose $300k playing PLO in this small stakes PLO series! The transition from NLHE to PLO is difficult, but it's a road Vanessa walked down herself. Watch her analyze whitelime's leaks and follow his progress. Can an elite high stakes No Limit player make the leap to Omaha? Tune in and find out!
Previous Video: Episode Four | Next Video: Episode Six
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Comments for Episode Five
- titleist203
- Deuce High
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3 posts
Joined 02/08
very nice video, i like what your guys are doin. ok, obv brag for me, been playin mid stakes plo for a while now, i like the concepts you guys are covering, but throwing in some higher stakes videos, like 2/4-5/10, would be awesome. recentlyi built a sick stack on one table...http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm184/titleist203/2.jpg
- actionjacson
- Deuce High
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17 posts
Joined 03/08
still .50/1 wtf please go higher
- mvoss
- Deuce High
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90 posts
Joined 02/07
still .50/1 wtf please go higher
Why? This is meant as an introduction to PLO IIRC, there's no reason to play higher than this.
Best episode so far IMO.
- jxrFR
- Deuce High
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15 posts
Joined 03/08
Great series, I hope you take it up through the levels. I do have a general strategy question. I've seen videos from a couple very successful online PLO players & thier 6-max pre flop play is very different from yours. For example about 10mins in on the button with JsJh8sKd you said you would maybe open fold. According to propokertools that is an 83 percentile hand. The other vid authors open roughly 35% from the button, hands that are way weaker than JJK8r. And then they CBET mostly if they are strong or weak, bet 3-bet or bet fold mostly. A lot more like they are playing holdem but with a very good understanding of PLO equity. Could you elaborate on this difference in pre flop? You must have very tight pre flop stats?
- jxrFR
- Deuce High
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15 posts
Joined 03/08
about 17 minutes in, QcQhKdTc UTG. I understand that a small raise pre flop is best, but given the way it played out isn't the flop a check-raise or fold? (also effective stack is 137bb & many times it's less than 100 so the situation post flop is similar to a re-raise of a 1/2 pot open so that the flop situation is worth discussing)
I understand what you said about check raise not having fold equity but is that why you would check-raise in PLO? To me check-raising in re-raised pots allows me to get the money in when I think I have good equity & want to eliminate my opponents positional advantage as well as commit myself to the hand. Plus you sometimes get free or cheap turn cards OOP (with hands that may improve but can't take heat on the flop) because your opponent doesn't want to get check-raised or is trying to bait you to check-raise by making a small bet.
We don't know what the pre flop re-raiser has but it is very likely that he has AA and some kind of coordination or a hand similar to yours that could easily have hit harder. In the actual hand you have 34% equity, but it could have been a lot worse & you're OOP. Are you really deep enough to go for implied odds OOP when you don't know what to hit or what you can bluff? Even if you knew that he didn't have hearts he isn't necessarily going to fold, there is a lot of money in the pot.
- beachbum
- Deuce High
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14 posts
Joined 01/08
In the AK hand toward the end where you flop the nut straight on a rainbow board and you smooth call the flop lead, if the board is twotone as opposed to rainbow are you more inclined or less inclined to raise here? Or, does it not matter a whole lot?
- Cblanks
- Deuce High
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99 posts
Joined 03/08
jxrFR, i am playing 1-2 plo and the style you are talking about does work a little better when 2-6 tabling i think, i recently began to 9-table 6max and have found their style to be much more appropriate. i have to 2 and 3 barrel less than before which is actually where i was making a ton of money. Vanessa was laughing when they bet 1.6 into roughly 90$ i think but its amazing that people do just call down to these stack sizes w/ draws and then fold to 1/60th pot on the river. i assume their thinking is that we have top 2 or a set so y put a draw all in when they can see the next card for a little less. maybe this is because they are out of money
- actionjacson
- Deuce High
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17 posts
Joined 03/08
understandable, but would be nice to see a series higher after this for sure
- tapped_out
- Deuce High
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31 posts
Joined 01/08
I really haven't followed this series but decided to check this one out for entertainment purposes.
Are you really advocating folding KJJs8s on the button if it's folded around(10 minutes in)....that seems really weak. Maybe I'm a loose donkey who overvalues hands but I would almost always open raise that on the button unless there's a aggro monkey who 3 bets a ton in the blinds(then I would limp)
- fslexcduck
- Exec Producer
- Pair of Deuces
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141 posts
Joined 10/07
hey sorry guys, i've been out of town and haven't had a chance to get to rewatch the video and address the responses specifically. i will do that this weekend.
as far as the other questions, i'm advocating tight preflop play mostly as a beginning strategy. if i advocated folding KJJ8ss on the button when folded to me, I don't know why I did that... position is enough to definitely justify a raise there. And I definitely become more aggressive preflop as I understand table dynamics better (especially at very tight tables), but it should be based on position more than anything else I guess. Most of the tight folds tend to be UTG here.
As with any game, you can open up once you understand table dynamics and can adjust to the players - if they're tighter, open wider... if they're looser, open tighter. Pretty self explanatory. But as far as the basics of PLO, I'd advocate playing on the tighter side because you're going to gain a lot more equity on later streets from tight preflop play than you might in other games.
- Beckham
- Deuce High
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5 posts
Joined 04/08
In the hand where you flop topset on KJ3 board, you make a sneakybet and then get it in versus jacks. How would your play be if you were holding AQT3 with say two backdoordraws?
- TianYuan
- Deuce High
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16 posts
Joined 12/07
Kinda late but gotta ask, why is AQ55dddx a fold in the sb? Am I overestimating the value of having a suited ace with a great price? Like, I realize 5s are rarely gonna overset anyone but given the price..
- TianYuan
- Deuce High
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16 posts
Joined 12/07
Also, you limp AAXX rainbow/rags UTG but when you had like KKXX rainbow you open folded (you were in a better position even). I realize that there's one less situation where you can overset someone (and I guess people might try to rep AA more than they'd try to rep KK) but is that the only reason you play one hand but not the other?
Oh and deuces needs an edit button (maybe there is one, I can't find it tho).
- fslexcduck
- Exec Producer
- Pair of Deuces
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141 posts
Joined 10/07
The value of the suited ace is often not worth it, especially out of position, compared to the reverse implied odds of being overset and not being able to get away. Once again, this is advocating a tight preflop point of view but it's important.
With the rag AA, there's a situation where you'll be able to isolate and play a pot with unimproved AA, depending on the action behind you. With KK and rags, you can't even isolate because you'll be losing to AA too often with significant action behind you, so it just isn't nearly as valuable a hand. I'd open kings with raggy side cards in many positions, but early-ish with loose players behind is not an enviable place to play the hand.
- fslexcduck
- Exec Producer
- Pair of Deuces
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141 posts
Joined 10/07
Beckham, can you remind me the action on the hand?
- TianYuan
- Deuce High
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16 posts
Joined 12/07
The value of the suited ace is often not worth it, especially out of position, compared to the reverse implied odds of being overset and not being able to get away. Once again, this is advocating a tight preflop point of view but it's important.
With the rag AA, there's a situation where you'll be able to isolate and play a pot with unimproved AA, depending on the action behind you. With KK and rags, you can't even isolate because you'll be losing to AA too often with significant action behind you, so it just isn't nearly as valuable a hand. I'd open kings with raggy side cards in many positions, but early-ish with loose players behind is not an enviable place to play the hand.
So, for #1, as you get more experienced, is it then worth a complete? Not sure if being "unable to get away" just means you really never can or if it's more of an experience issue.
For #2, you mean if it goes something like raise, reraise we can just cold 4bet? Or can we get enough of our stack in with a limp RR if someone raises and there's a caller or two? (I'm assuming this is what you meant by isolating)
Also I'm not beckham but.. the KJ3 hand went like this (42:45 intot he video): open Ks9dKcTc UTG, called by CO and SB (150bb deep effectively), flop comes Kh3dJc and we bet out 10 into 13, CO raises us and we tank/raise and he sticks the last bit in.
Thanks for the answers btw, like the series =]
- fslexcduck
- Exec Producer
- Pair of Deuces
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141 posts
Joined 10/07
For the AA hand, yeah I mean mostly I'm talking about the situation where there is a raise and a 3-bet behind, which isn't completely rare in aggressive games. Also if we get to a favorable flop (T33r or something similar) we can call bets postflop with AA being reasonably sure it's the best hand and not having overcards that could kill us (such as would be the case when we call bets with KK).
As far as the AQT3 situation... if someone makes a large raise, it depends on stacks is all you can really say when deciding between sticking it in and calling to see the turn. If you have no fold equity at all, waiting for a non-board pair can't be too bad of an idea against someone who will show up with a set in that spot every time.