Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by DeathDonkey (Mid Stakes)

Time Link to 00:00:23

Hi guys,

DD do you agree with OTR that you should never fold anything you would open with on the button in this situation after it is capped?

Time Link to 00:11:58

I think this should be a clear bet on the turn by the SB against DDs OR/flop peel range. True, the BB may be thinking that DD will wait for the turn to raise, however, on this particular board there are very few of those hands that he would/should be doing this with. I feel there are far more hands that will call another bet or check behind here. In fact, I think with DDs holding, he should raise the flop for reasons OTR stated.

I think you can eliminate hands like KK,QQ,99 since DD would cap these preflop. He may just call KK sometimes in this scenario but early on in the session I'd think he would be capping and he would play this fast on this flop anyway. BTW, I don't claim to have a great read on DD, I think this is how some good players would play it. I also think he would raise the flop with all hands K9 or higher as well as some combo draw type hands like QT, QJ etc.

I don't think DD will be bluffing if checked to here often since BBs check looks defensive. The hands he could get BB to fold like 66,77,88 are too few in number in my opinion to make a bluff worth while. Therefore, I think most bets from DD on the turn will be for value. Since there is pretty good possibility that the turn may get checked through and given the strength of the BBs hand he should definately bet.

Time Link to 00:17:31

I like BBs CR on this river. I think this is a great way to get extra bets from aggressive thinking players. As you guys mentioned, most players would donk an Ace here and most players would also bet the turn with AQ. Once the BB checks this river his hand is highly underrept which means DD has every reason to believe his hand is good and he should bet. Also, from the BBs POV DDs turn bet looks like it is for value or possibly a draw both of which are hands DD will probably bet on the river either for value or a bluff.

I think given WTF aspects of the CR and also the fact that it is early in a session against tough players it seems reasonable that DD will bet and call down lightly here.

I think it is pretty optimistic to hope that the BB is turning a hand like 98 into a bluff on the river. First of all, there aren't many of those in his range preflop. Second, I think it would be pretty optimistic from BBs POV, that DD will fold anything he is betting on the river that is better.

After further review I would fold the K3, however, I can see how in the heat of the moment this could be a call which makes the villians CR even better.

sick

Time Link to 00:22:24

Would you guys be more inclined to bet a hand like 5s5d on this turn since you may now be able to get 66,77,88 or a pair of 7s to fold?

great video , really enjoyed the breakdown of ranges in the last multiway pot. I agree with OTR's logic that driverseati is never never never good on the turn with AA.

also interesting discussion about just calling two cold in the big blind with everything playable when UTG or UTG+1 opens and sb 3bets.

Time Link to 00:25:04

Wow! this is the difference between playing in tough games against very good opponents and the games I play in. I would never have thought once about checking this river since Ace high seems to call here always even though they beat basically nothing. I am going to have to reevaluate how I play against tough opponents.

Wow! this is the difference between playing in tough games against very good opponents and the games I play in. I would never have thought once about checking this river since Ace high seems to call here always even though they beat basically nothing. I am going to have to reevaluate how I play against tough opponents.

I found this interesting too, cuz id bet this automatically. At this point hands beating us are 8x and hands that payoff are 99; there are 6 combos of 99 and depending on his 3betting range, if he 3bets A8s-Q8s then its 50/50 if looser then it d be a losing value bet; though its weird cuz he donked into a preflop capper.

Hi guys,

DD do you agree with OTR that you should never fold anything you would open with on the button in this situation after it is capped?

Hi motienko, something's wrong with your time stamp. Your question pertains to the action at this point.

I remember the same thing happened in a recent Elephant Tamer episode as well - you asked a question but linked to a VERY early time (still in the intro I think). Not sure why, but I just want to make you aware of it.

Wow! this is the difference between playing in tough games against very good opponents and the games I play in. I would never have thought once about checking this river since Ace high seems to call here always even though they beat basically nothing. I am going to have to reevaluate how I play against tough opponents.

Yeah this is a good point and I remember someone making a similar comment during a previous home game. Actually I think it was DeathDonkey in the immediately prior home game (with fnupple and crew) - I'm not sure if it was in his solo portion or the part he did with Rob.

Anyway, he said that it's interesting to watch how you just don't win as much against good players in some spot and that this is part of what makes them 'tough' (as a corollary I think it's fair to say we are also in danger of losing more in other types of spots). I think this should make sense intuitively - - I mean it's not like good/tough players are actually dealt more good hands / hit their draws more often.

Time Link to 00:48:12

From groth's position one thing that almost always comes up when we check in a spot like this is that we are 'turning our hand face up.' How do you balance the times you check here? I assume you don't have much that is going to x/f. Is this a spot where you'd consider screw-playing something like AK/AA from time to time?

Also, how would you play a hand like 88 here?

Time Link to 01:00:36

I'm guessing that driverseati might have thought he had the PF lead here and thus thought he was just cbetting this flop rather than donking. I mean, he probably knew he put in 4 bets PF and he can see he has aces, so he might have made the not-unreasonable leap that he was the last PF aggressor. To be fair, you don't often cold call 4 bets PF.

That said, of course I think a flop x/r is better here too.

Would you guys be more inclined to bet a hand like 5s5d on this turn since you may now be able to get 66,77,88 or a pair of 7s to fold?

I doubt 77 is gonna fold as it's a set, but in general I think you would be better off barreling the weaker part of your range rather than something as "in between" value/bluff wise as 55.

Maybe this gets mentioned later on in the video, but who is everyone?
I know OTR and DD but noone else.

Maybe this gets mentioned later on in the video, but who is everyone?
I know OTR and DD but noone else.

WHTaft is Ninawilliams
AlexSem is Alexashka
groth911t is a DC coach who plays a bunch of triple draw and was featured in DD's triple draw series
I'm not sure who driverseati is on DC but his name is Jonathan Tamayo who finished deep in the main event this year 22nd or something

Hi motienko, something's wrong with your time stamp. Your question pertains to the action at this point.

I remember the same thing happened in a recent Elephant Tamer episode as well - you asked a question but linked to a VERY early time (still in the intro I think). Not sure why, but I just want to make you aware of it.

Thanks for noticing this. I am not sure why this has happened. I was referring to a situation where we open on the button and the Sb reraises and the BB caps. OTR sais he never folds here with any hand he opens.

I doubt 77 is gonna fold as it's a set, but in general I think you would be better off barreling the weaker part of your range rather than something as "in between" value/bluff wise as 55.

Ya but just think if he did fold his set when we bet 55. That would be huge!

Thanks for noticing this. I am not sure why this has happened. I was referring to a situation where we open on the button and the Sb reraises and the BB caps. OTR sais he never folds here with any hand he opens.

motienko, I had it happen to me once recently - I think in a What to do When episode. I can't recall the exact sequence of events but I know it was some combination of watching, checking the thread for previous comments, refreshing to check new comments (and thus re-starting the video and fast forwarding), and then posting. Is that at all consistent with what you were doing?

Anyway, the bottom line is I was trying to comment on something midway through the video, paused at, say, the 13 minute mark, and my comment went to ~30 second into the video. I'm wondering if the same sort of thing happened to you.

Obviously I wasn't paying super close attention to the exact order of things as I had never had that problem before, but I intend to in the future. But it hasn't happened again since.

Maybe this gets mentioned later on in the video, but who is everyone?
I know OTR and DD but noone else.

It's weird - from the thread inviting people to join I recognize / know / deduced everyone's Stars screen name except for one - psychobingo. BUT, I know there were some last minute changes in the lineup, e.g., deepsquat could not make it and it seems that groth and/or driverseati replaced him.

But I'm reasonably certain psychobingo can't be driverseati. If bigbluffben1 is right about his real life name then that's not psychobingo. But also, given the volume I know psychobingo plays on FTP I'd be stunned if he were ALSO SNE. That'd be just crazy.

Thanks for noticing this. I am not sure why this has happened. I was referring to a situation where we open on the button and the Sb reraises and the BB caps. OTR sais he never folds here with any hand he opens.

Don't get me wrong, in a lot of game textures, against a lot of sb/bb combos I'd be folding some of my range. But early in this kind of game, my default is to assume that preflop in these wide range situations is going to be laggy/spewy so it'd be hard for me to fold any hand when the ranges should still be reasonably wide, I'm getting a pretty good price, and I have position.

Time Link to 00:39:00

Awesome discussion of cold-calling from the BB vs. capping a Sb 3-bet. Definitely something to think about for any LHE 6max player.

I just upgraded my account again, because of THIS video. Be honored

Don't get me wrong, in a lot of game textures, against a lot of sb/bb combos I'd be folding some of my range. But early in this kind of game, my default is to assume that preflop in these wide range situations is going to be laggy/spewy so it'd be hard for me to fold any hand when the ranges should still be reasonably wide, I'm getting a pretty good price, and I have position.

This makes sense. I noticed in the vid that DD seemed slightly surprised when you said that but never mentioned anything afterward so I was curious about his thoughts.

motienko, I had it happen to me once recently - I think in a What to do When episode. I can't recall the exact sequence of events but I know it was some combination of watching, checking the thread for previous comments, refreshing to check new comments (and thus re-starting the video and fast forwarding), and then posting. Is that at all consistent with what you were doing?

Anyway, the bottom line is I was trying to comment on something midway through the video, paused at, say, the 13 minute mark, and my comment went to ~30 second into the video. I'm wondering if the same sort of thing happened to you.

Obviously I wasn't paying super close attention to the exact order of things as I had never had that problem before, but I intend to in the future. But it hasn't happened again since.

Ya, I do a lot of rewinding and fastforwarding etc. and all the other things. I'll just double check from now on to see that I got it right.

Thanks

Time Link to 00:32:55

OTR you say you would fold 9Ts UTG here. Is this because DD had been opening a ton prior to this and there was a better chance he may get played back at? Or is this too loose for this particular game?

Yay the time link works.

BTW, I love this format. I think it would be cool to do a vid like this Dojo style. It would be interesting to here from the participants about there reads and reasons for playing the way they did. I'm in.

OTR you say you would fold 9Ts UTG here. Is this because DD had been opening a ton prior to this and there was a better chance he may get played back at? Or is this too loose for this particular game?

Yay the time link works.

Pretty much the first thing you said. DD can't help himself though. I understand.

Awesome discussion of cold-calling from the BB vs. capping a Sb 3-bet. Definitely something to think about for any LHE 6max player.

What is the reasoning behind making this play. I have always thought that not capping in MW pots with these big hands was a definate mistake.

BTW, I love this format. I think it would be cool to do a vid like this Dojo style. It would be interesting to here from the participants about there reads and reasons for playing the way they did. I'm in.

+1

Time Link to 00:12:46

Hi Guys,

Can you go over your thoughts on the river value bet, once the Ace hits on the river? I suspect I am way too much of a nit 3 betting in the SB, so perhaps that is the issue? Can you please tell me how wide a range you would be giving the SB to 3 bet you here preflop?

I've run a few stoves, and every time I get to the Ace falling on the river, our equity plummets into the mid to high 30's. Would this not imply that we definitely DON'T want to be getting raised on this river? ( unless you really COULD bet/fold perhaps? ) Would a check-call be OK here instead?

This is just a type of spot I want to tighten up for playing 6 max. I mean, a SB 3 bet range is going to be largely big broadway cards here. To value bet this river, shouldn't we hope to be good 50%( better put, getting PAID, 50% of the time ), more if we are concerned with getting raised?

Thanks!

Hi Guys,

Can you go over your thoughts on the river value bet, once the Ace hits on the river? I suspect I am way too much of a nit 3 betting in the SB, so perhaps that is the issue? Can you please tell me how wide a range you would be giving the SB to 3 bet you here preflop?

I've run a few stoves, and every time I get to the Ace falling on the river, our equity plummets into the mid to high 30's. Would this not imply that we definitely DON'T want to be getting raised on this river? ( unless you really COULD bet/fold perhaps? ) Would a check-call be OK here instead?

This is just a type of spot I want to tighten up for playing 6 max. I mean, a SB 3 bet range is going to be largely big broadway cards here. To value bet this river, shouldn't we hope to be good 50%( better put, getting PAID, 50% of the time ), more if we are concerned with getting raised?

Thanks!

We're in position. I agree that it's a check.

As for reads: Only reads I had were on OTR and DD from the amount that I've played w them. I was in between 1 or 2 hu matches at the same time and wasn't really paying attention. Probably was the reason for my Q9o call vs driverseati.

It's weird - from the thread inviting people to join I recognize / know / deduced everyone's Stars screen name except for one - psychobingo. BUT, I know there were some last minute changes in the lineup, e.g., deepsquat could not make it and it seems that groth and/or driverseati replaced him.

But I'm reasonably certain psychobingo can't be driverseati. If bigbluffben1 is right about his real life name then that's not psychobingo. But also, given the volume I know psychobingo plays on FTP I'd be stunned if he were ALSO SNE. That'd be just crazy.

Just to clarify this, psychobingo didn't end up playing. I don't think driverseati posts here much if ever, but I've coached him some and we talk poker some so I asked him if he wanted to play. Groth is known for being a triple draw coach here but he made supernova elite in 2009 mostly with LHE play, so he is interested in LHE and getting better at it. So it was all seriously LHE people's just not the ones originally planned.

Time Link to 00:59:35

Doesn't betting out give a good opportunity to bet/3bet after cold calling a 4 bet and being first to act postflop.

Also, I could also be up against a pair plus the Ah enough that calling with that enormous pot I think.

Time Link to 00:49:43

Should OTR bet this river if Groth had checked? I would think this would be a good check back since since an Ace is certainly in Groths range and he would probably fold smaller pairs.

Time Link to 00:50:43

Is this really that bad of a fold given the aggressivenes of this game?

Doesn't betting out give a good opportunity to bet/3bet after cold calling a 4 bet and being first to act postflop.

Also, I could also be up against a pair plus the Ah enough that calling with that enormous pot I think.

I don't think your donk would be bad against a typical lineup. I often donk in situations like these with two pair or better with the intention of b/3b and not allowing any free cards. Your OVP is probably strong enough to do the same. However, It's much less likely against this lineup that the flop will be checked through. Also, I think DD conceded that he made a mistake by raising the flop, so in actuality you wouldn't have had the opportunity to 3 bet. Weaker players won't be as likely to put you on a range and will just be playing to the strength of there hands.

Since the pot is big and your hand isn't as strong as two pair or a set I think you need to make the play that will best protect your hand. I think CR the flop is the better play although I don't think donking is that bad since you do put the two players in between you and DD in a tough spot.

Regarding the turn play. I think it would be quite optimistic to think Nina has a pair plus Ah as played. I am wondering if just check/calling down would be that awful here. I say this assuming we have a very strong read that Nina has a flush most of the time. The pot is huge and we would like to get to showdown but not have to pay 3 bets. Once you bet the turn and get raised it is hard to think that you aren't beat and drawing dead. I also don't think DD would make any plays here trying to fold you off a better hand so you shouldn't worry about that.


I would budget two more bets for the rest of this hand.

EH! The more I think about it, I think bet/folding is the best play.

My comments:

I agree A9o is a fold. But this is a nit game and nobody knows me... So I raise, lol. 77 3bet given that I'm unknown and supposed to be good = wat? It's one of those "but do you 3bet 88? what about 99? what about TT?"

You're going to be in terribly tough spots on almost any multiple high card flop/turn/river... So I'd actually fold 88 and 3bet 99 because I figure people open 77+ and so the times I'm dominating other PP makes up for all the times I'm completely fawked. But 3betting anything less than 99+/AQ in sb vs utg is break-even or loser in my opinion.

97s in BB vs but/bb 3bet. I'm surprised to hear people think this is close. It is only close imho if button is either supremely loose or supremely easy to play against. Otherwise you're going to be getting in tough spots with dominated pairs and backdoor draws so often...

I'd cap 98s. but not 78s because it's marginal to cap these hands assuming button doesn't just fold to 4bets all the time to begin with.

-

Would be nice to see Driverseati's explanation for AQo hand. It made no sense to me and I'd end up calling down as DD did, simply because when in doubt, just call

67o call vs utg = bad and this hand shows precisely why.

AJo donk is an expert play and worth discussing if anyone wants to.

Calling in bb with Q4o. Wat?

Calling in bb with J6s. Wat?


Can you guys go a bit more into why c/r A2s on 2h5c6c vs button is bad? I don't get it.

Getting OTR to donk bet river with K high It's an expert hand.


On the whole - I think the game's going to get more interesting in part to and I'm looking forward to it Want to talk about that A2s 256 asap

On the whole - I think the game's going to get more interesting in part to and I'm looking forward to it Want to talk about that A2s 256 asap

Basically if you c/r A2 in this spot, your c/c range isn't nearly strong enough on the flop; therefore, it's going to be super simple to play against you when you c/c the flop (bet turn, bet river) since you're folding 100% of your c/c range that doesn't pair up at some point in the hand.

AJo donk is an expert play and worth discussing if anyone wants to.

Really? I think it's very bad. I'd like to know why you think it's expert. I assume you mean when you have AdJx on the ddd board in the capped pot.

97s in BB vs but/bb 3bet...

I'd cap 98s.

So it's close but probably a fold, which is what we said .

Getting OTR to donk bet river with K high It's an expert hand.

Only expert cuz I'm an idiot Hope you weren't counting on that.

Doesn't betting out give a good opportunity to bet/3bet after cold calling a 4 bet and being first to act postflop.

Also, I could also be up against a pair plus the Ah enough that calling with that enormous pot I think.

Two things:

First, I think that, since the pot is, at this point enormous, it's much better for you to c/r to get hands with a heart or a pair to fold. Not that b/threebet doesn't have an okay amount of value (aces are hard to mess up too much), but at this point I'd consider getting stuff like underpairs with a heart to fold to be a victory.

Second, you're only getting about 8-1 on a cd from the turn. I say "only" because the pot is so fing big at this point that it doesn't seem like it is possible that you're basically getting less than 10-1 to cd nina.

Also, Nina is never playing a hand like Ah7s this way. First he'd have to call preflop, which he wouldn't. Then he'd have to call two more on the flop the second time around, which is debatable and probably would be a fold. Finally, he'd have to have the wherewithal to turn his hand into a bluff, which, I'll grant you, he probably has the capability of doing, but wouldn't do every time. So starting with preflop, I think Nina has a bluff here less than 2% of the time. In truth, I think it's probably approaching 0. Not a knock on Nina, I just think this is one of those spots in LHE where a good player shouldn't ever have a bluff.

Is this really that bad of a fold given the aggressivenes of this game?

I don't think it's the worst, but I have way less experience playing from the HJ than almost anyone at the table. Probably with DSi's image (a bit on the snug side), it's a slight mistake.

Should OTR bet this river if Groth had checked? I would think this would be a good check back since since an Ace is certainly in Groths range and he would probably fold smaller pairs.

I think I said in the video that I was planning on chking back since Groth's hand, in my mind, was pretty face up. I also think I should have folded to his donk for the same reason. C'est La Vie.

Doesn't betting out give a good opportunity to bet/3bet after cold calling a 4 bet and being first to act postflop.

Also, I could also be up against a pair plus the Ah enough that calling with that enormous pot I think.

you really shouldn't be able to b3b. DD's raise with KQ is pretty bad. I don't think I'd even raise AK in my spot or his.

Basically if you c/r A2 in this spot, your c/c range isn't nearly strong enough on the flop; therefore, it's going to be super simple to play against you when you c/c the flop (bet turn, bet river) since you're folding 100% of your c/c range that doesn't pair up at some point in the hand.

Isn't this easily balanced by waiting with some hands to c/r the turn? That and I don't c/r bottom pair on every flop, I just do it on this particular one.

Thinking about it a lil bit more, I guess if I call flop and don't c/r the turn, I must be super weak, and that makes it easy to play against me. Kind of? I rarely just call flops against button steals in BB, is that a mistake?

And how would you play against someone that consitently c/r the flop against you. If you're stealing 50-55% you're not hitting that often and you can't be too happy half of the times when you are. Just calling let's people check the turn when weak and catch up far too often imho. Especially when that third club lands and then you really don't want to be giving free cards to Ax3c

Really? I think it's very bad. I'd like to know why you think it's expert. I assume you mean when you have AdJx on the ddd board in the capped pot.

I think it's expert because the capper could easily have AQ/AK. Now imagine he is holding AQo without the diamond. What's his play and what does it seem like I have, betting into him?

It's a huge pot and I'm calling to the river guaranteed. POTENTIALLY one small extra bet, gives me the option of taking this pot down with the worse hand.

This is 1/13 so it doesn't have to work often and he really shouldn't be raising TT/JJ in that spot anyway. So I'm getting raised by QQ+ and getting called by TT/JJ/AQ/AK.

Pokerstoving
TT+ 44% equity
My hand 41%
Original raiser 13% (I gave him 15% PFR)

Dunno if that matters, but when people say the play is bad, I don't know... We have equal equity AAAAAAND I'm introducing folding equity into the equation. Seems the superior play to me.

Just added AQ+ to the TT+ equation and I am now AHEAD of the capper with my AJo. Booya.

Isn't this easily balanced by waiting with some hands to c/r the turn? That and I don't c/r bottom pair on every flop, I just do it on this particular one.



And how would you play against someone that consitently c/r the flop against you. If you're stealing 50-55% you're not hitting that often and you can't be too happy half of the times when you are. Just calling let's people check the turn when weak and catch up far too often imho. Especially when that third club lands and then you really don't want to be giving free cards to Ax3c

So you want to c/r the weaker part of your range and c/c a stronger part? Seems problematic to me in general. First of all, you miss way way too much value doing this since this board texture will induce a ton of action on later streets. Second of all, it puts you in retarded spots later in the hand because, to be honest, you aren't doing very well against your opponent's continuing range past the flop.

I play people who do this all the time in the run of my normal sessions. The correct response is to wait for the turn with your whole range and semi-bluff a healthy amount. This way your range is strong, but also relatively balanced. This kind of play works well against weaker opponents because they don't adjust well to this constant c/r strategy (usually by reacting in an unbalanced manner), but against stronger opponents who know how to deal with it, it's going to cost you imo.

I think it's expert because the capper could easily have AQ/AK. Now imagine he is holding AQo without the diamond. What's his play and what does it seem like I have, betting into him?

It's a huge pot and I'm calling to the river guaranteed. POTENTIALLY one small extra bet, gives me the option of taking this pot down with the worse hand.

This is 1/13 so it doesn't have to work often and he really shouldn't be raising TT/JJ in that spot anyway. So I'm getting raised by QQ+ and getting called by TT/JJ/AQ/AK.

Pokerstoving
TT+ 44% equity
My hand 41%
Original raiser 13% (I gave him 15% PFR)

Dunno if that matters, but when people say the play is bad, I don't know... We have equal equity AAAAAAND I'm introducing folding equity into the equation. Seems the superior play to me.

Just added AQ+ to the TT+ equation and I am now AHEAD of the capper with my AJo. Booya.

So then c/r. I still think c/c is better but just betting is imo the worst option. The problem here is that your range is totally unbalanced here. Remember, you're donking into a preflop capper in a multiway pot. This is the only type of hand you can have that might conceivably want to play this way. This is one of the few spots where, if I have AQ or AK, I'm happily raising for value since you never have anything when you play this way.

So you want to c/r the weaker part of your range and c/c a stronger part? Seems problematic to me in general. First of all, you miss way way too much value doing this since this board texture will induce a ton of action on later streets. Second of all, it puts you in retarded spots later in the hand because, to be honest, you aren't doing very well against your opponent's continuing range past the flop.

I see what you're saying, I'm just not sure what the solution is.

Being put in tough spots is the name of the game it seems when defending BB. How is that avoided? By Call/call/folding bottom pairs? What else would I be calling with to balance that since I'm almost never just calling a flush draw.

In short - what do you do if you don't mind sharing? You have me confused

For example:

A75 rainbow. You have 56 what's your play?
Q47. You have 46. Or A5 what's your play?

Does backdoor fd matter? For instance you have Ahigh backdoor fd on Q47 would that change the way you play the hand?

So then c/r. I still think c/c is better but just betting is imo the worst option. The problem here is that your range is totally unbalanced here. Remember, you're donking into a preflop capper in a multiway pot. This is the only type of hand you can have that might conceivably want to play this way. This is one of the few spots where, if I have AQ or AK, I'm happily raising for value since you never have anything when you play this way.

See in my opinion I'd donk QQ+ without the flush draw here every time since giving a free card would be a complete disaster. It seems you figure I'd have AJ fd but I figure I'd have QQ+ as well.

Heads up I'd go for c/r. 3way against a smart opponent I recognize he'd check his AQ/AK and since I have the A, he's even more likely to do so.

I think the way the hand played out - he figured I was on a FD as well, so maybe my assumption that I can rep QQ+ here is completely wrong, making this play bad indeed.

See in my opinion I'd donk QQ+ without the flush draw here every time since giving a free card would be a complete disaster. It seems you figure I'd have AJ fd but I figure I'd have QQ+ as well.

Heads up I'd go for c/r. 3way against a smart opponent I recognize he'd check his AQ/AK and since I have the A, he's even more likely to do so.

I think the way the hand played out - he figured I was on a FD as well, so maybe my assumption that I can rep QQ+ here is completely wrong, making this play bad indeed.

I mean, I guess our assumptions are just different. I assume no one is checking any part of his range once the pot gets this big, even on a board texture like this.

I see what you're saying, I'm just not sure what the solution is.

Being put in tough spots is the name of the game it seems when defending BB. How is that avoided? By Call/call/folding bottom pairs? What else would I be calling with to balance that since I'm almost never just calling a flush draw.

In short - what do you do if you don't mind sharing? You have me confused

For example:

A75 rainbow. You have 56 what's your play?
Q47. You have 46. Or A5 what's your play?

Does backdoor fd matter? For instance you have Ahigh backdoor fd on Q47 would that change the way you play the hand?

I call all of these intending to cd mostly. I would probably just c/c down in your spot depending on board texture as well. I'd be more likely to fold A5 on the river depending on my opponent. I also call with my sd type draws and semi-sd type draws to answer your balance question

Time Link to 01:03:42

Agree with Jeremy here -- I think the fact that Nina is raising with you left to go after you raised the flop effectively reduces driverseati's equity to ~0% here. Nina's a great player but I don't think he's sick enough to have KxJh preflop, call the flop, raise the turn as a bluff and bet the river against what looks like two super strong hands given flop action.

It becomes a more interesting decision when Chris doesn't overplay his hand on the flop but given flop action I think Jeremy is dead on.

Rob

I call all of these intending to cd mostly. I would probably just c/c down in your spot depending on board texture as well. I'd be more likely to fold A5 on the river depending on my opponent. I also call with my sd type draws and semi-sd type draws to answer your balance question

*Blinks* So you're c/r mid pair or better? Isn't THAT easy to play against?

*Blinks* So you're c/r mid pair or better? Isn't THAT easy to play against?

Simple question. Simple answer. No, aparantly.

*Blinks* So you're c/r mid pair or better? Isn't THAT easy to play against?

Why do you think it would be?

Well because then I can simply fold bottom pair to your c/r? Not to mention all of my A highs that don't have 6 outs?

The idea behind c/r wide is that it becomes difficult to tell what you're doing it with. If you're only c/r your premium hands, then I waste no time folding against you.

Or I guess you're going to say that you also mix in flush draws/straight draws in there to balance it? But what about rainbow flops?

Well because then I can simply fold bottom pair to your c/r? Not to mention all of my A highs that don't have 6 outs?

The idea behind c/r wide is that it becomes difficult to tell what you're doing it with. If you're only c/r your premium hands, then I waste no time folding against you.

Or I guess you're going to say that you also mix in flush draws/straight draws in there to balance it? But what about rainbow flops?

I wish ppl just folded bottom pair to me! That would sure be nice

Alex I think he is saying he balances his range with bluffs and not with more marginal pairs.

Alex I think he is saying he balances his range with bluffs and not with more marginal pairs.

This. I'd also like to add that c/r more marginal pairs here isn't generally a hallmark of balanced play, even on dry boards, as your range becomes too value oriented.

*Nods* will thinktank on this

When will you guys make a whole cards game like this for low stakes?

When will you guys make a whole cards game like this for low stakes?

It's already done, this is actually the third game:

Game 1, Part 1

Game 1, Part 2

Game 2, Part 1

Game 2, Part 2

Game 2, Part 3

it's a great video, but it's kind of frustrating that the second part still hasn't been released, since it's been 6 weeks or so. it's like when they show a great episode of [insert your favorite TV show here] and then tell you: "season will continue in 2 months, just sit tight". so any idea when the second part will appear?