Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by BigBadBabar (Mid Stakes)

hi guys, it was a pleasure working with pyg on this series and bringing you some 6m lhe content. we appreciate your time spent watching and commenting on these vids! as always, the DC community rocks. looking forward to your comments both on this vid and in series to come.

happy holidays ahead of time,

BBB

Thanks for a great series. I have to say, I subscribed to deuces in small part to the roshambo at the beginning of episode one and PygmyHero's "your rock was a dog to my range" comment.

I can't believe you guys teased that joke for like 10 minutes.

Time Link to 00:14:11

Really cool spot, with the turn being a T I like betting twice when the river bricks off but, if the turn was the T I would pretty much always c/f the river when it comes a blank

Just thinking that he has a bunch of one diamond hands that he will play passive

Time Link to 00:18:28

I REALLY like checking the river when we hit our 9, we don't have to bluff anymore and we're not getting to many worse hands to call us

he might get desperate for his last bet with QJ or w/e he peels with

I think betting would be really bad

Time Link to 00:21:16

BBB, go to options in the client and you can select to have normal cards at all table sizes

Time Link to 00:21:48

I really like this check behind
I think it's a good hand to have in your range to be giving up (assuming he bets) with since you're going to be betting the turn twice with soooo many hands on this drawy texture

Time Link to 00:40:36

omg epic

Time Link to 00:03:30

Hi guys,

Is this a standard bet on the turn? Does it make sense to check and hope to induce bluffs or thin bets and avoid getting raised? I am not sure how much value we have in a bet and it seems the villian will be folding here quite often with hands that he otherwise don't have many outs against us. We are ahead of a lot of Queens, but the villian may bet this for us anyway. We are ahead of smaller pocket pairs but they may fold to our bet. We do get value from some weak peels that have now turned into flush draws on the turn.

What would be your plan if you were raised on this turn?

Thanks.

Time Link to 00:05:00

BBB mentioned several of the reasons why I would prefer to raise QJ here such as building pots in position, be able to take free cards if we choose, etc. I would also ad that we will get paid off more often when we flop top pair with the Queen or Jack since we have built a bigger pot.

Just because you raise this preflop doesn't mean you have to C bet always or continue at all with this hand.

Time Link to 00:00:26

I don't love the raise here. I think players donk here with pairs, and Ace high hands here a lot and are never getting away from there hand on a paired board like this. I agree, this is rarely a ten but it is also rarely complete air.

On the flip side, you will usually be good if you hit your Q or J on the turn so I don't completely hate it. I like it better if you had a diamond in your hand.

I REALLY like checking the river when we hit our 9, we don't have to bluff anymore and we're not getting to many worse hands to call us

he might get desperate for his last bet with QJ or w/e he peels with

I think betting would be really bad

I think betting is the better play here. By the time we get to the river I think his most likely holding is a hand like a smaller pair we beat but might check back on the river. If he has an Ace or 5 he is going bet anyway but we can't lose much more since he is short stacked if we bet and he raises. Short stacked players will sometimes call down here with K,Q, or J high. If I knew this player was the bluffy type, I would CR the river.

Time Link to 00:20:00

I think capping here with A3s would be bad. Your going to be OOP, behind equity wise and in a basically dry pot post flop. Even if we get the button out with a flop bet, our hot n cold equity against the all in player can't be much better than even.

sick avatar babs

Time Link to 00:31:39

I volunteer to be the odd man!

And who doesnt know B.C.

grogg 4tehwin

I can't believe you guys teased that joke for like 10 minutes.

this is my standard m.o. - tilts pyg's face off

Really cool spot, with the turn being a T I like betting twice when the river bricks off but, if the turn was the T I would pretty much always c/f the river when it comes a blank

Just thinking that he has a bunch of one diamond hands that he will play passive

yea i was definitely considering that upon a second look. good point. it's weird how many potential 3barrel spots came up in this vid.

I REALLY like checking the river when we hit our 9, we don't have to bluff anymore and we're not getting to many worse hands to call us

he might get desperate for his last bet with QJ or w/e he peels with

I think betting would be really bad

yea pyg and i have a fairly spirited argument about it iirc... or at least we disagreed on it

BBB, go to options in the client and you can select to have normal cards at all table sizes

ty

Hi guys,

Is this a standard bet on the turn? Does it make sense to check and hope to induce bluffs or thin bets and avoid getting raised? I am not sure how much value we have in a bet and it seems the villian will be folding here quite often with hands that he otherwise don't have many outs against us. We are ahead of a lot of Queens, but the villian may bet this for us anyway. We are ahead of smaller pocket pairs but they may fold to our bet. We do get value from some weak peels that have now turned into flush draws on the turn.

What would be your plan if you were raised on this turn?

Thanks.

i see your point. at the time my thought was to bet for value and protection thinking he can call with lots of draws like flushdraws or onecard guts. some guys will even roll their eyes and call worse pairs here since the ace is a good/common double barrel card.

i think defensive checkcalling is reasonable here vs a laggy guy who will bet almost (or) atc when checked to but will also raise a super wide range when i bet. vs a passive or unknown guy i probably am betting more than checking, just because i am always suprised by the peels guys make, and also cuz i'd bet here with most of my range to begin with

if i'm doing the math right (i'm tired) i'd be getting about 27:4 if he raises right, so about 6.75 to 1? figure 4 jack outs slightly discounted to maybe 3.5, 2 queen outs are cleanish, outs on tens are pretty dirty but i'd call on them, so maybe 1 out there, plus sometimes i have the best hand vs a semibluff or outright bluff, so i'm looking at a call if he raises and then re-evaluate on the river imo

BBB mentioned several of the reasons why I would prefer to raise QJ here such as building pots in position, be able to take free cards if we choose, etc. I would also ad that we will get paid off more often when we flop top pair with the Queen or Jack since we have built a bigger pot.

Just because you raise this preflop doesn't mean you have to C bet always or continue at all with this hand.

yeah good point, inflating pot sizes causes opponents to chase a bit more than usual which means when they make a second best hand we often get 'extra' value from our hand. being in position is quite nice

Time Link to 00:00:26

I don't love the raise here. I think players donk here with pairs, and Ace high hands here a lot and are never getting away from there hand on a paired board like this. I agree, this is rarely a ten but it is also rarely complete air.

On the flip side, you will usually be good if you hit your Q or J on the turn so I don't completely hate it. I like it better if you had a diamond in your hand.

the timestamp goes to me pwning a giraffe

I think capping here with A3s would be bad. Your going to be OOP, behind equity wise and in a basically dry pot post flop. Even if we get the button out with a flop bet, our hot n cold equity against the all in player can't be much better than even.

well yeah that's what we were debating. let's assume the 3bettor is reasonable tag. what kind of range can we stove up for him? what hands are you 3betting there and how does a3s do?

sick avatar babs

ty imo

hammerpants ftw

Time Link to 00:52:24

*Chuckles* @ BBB. but, seriously, this is pretty standard for me here w/ ATC, could this in any way be a leak? My mentality behind it is if we're only raising w/ the value part of our range here and knuckling everything else there's balancing issues, correct?

well yeah that's what we were debating. let's assume the 3bettor is reasonable tag. what kind of range can we stove up for him? what hands are you 3betting there and how does a3s do?

I would think the TAG might eliminate some of the mid suited connectors since he is isoing an all in player. I think his range should be something like: A7o+ KTo+ A4s+ QTs+ JTs+ 44+ K9s+. He has good equity with any Ace here, however, I am thinking he needs to be a little tighter since there are players still left to act after him. The same applies for pairs.

In reality, the TAGs range appears to be closer to A2o+ 22+ K9o+ A2s+ JTs+ K7s+ from seeing the showdown. Even against this range you only have about 44% equity HU. When you throw in the other player, your overall equity is about 30%

What would be your 3b range if you were the TAG here?

Time Link to 00:50:58

I think given you had evidence that this player is passive, and you had an intiuitive feeling you were crushed, and the fact that you may be drawing dead and have to avoid many bad river cards, and are simply not ahead of enough hands you hope to be ahead of, like an Ace with a heart kicker lower than your nine, and the pot is not super big but if you call, you will be putting in another bet on the river most likely.....This should be a fold.

This has to be the longest sentence ever. I am no English major as you can see.

Time Link to 00:55:17

I would CR this flop. Depending on how loose the BBs calling range is preflop you have decent to good equity. The button has bad relative position to you and will be forced to laydown better hands quite often in this protected pot when you bet the turn.

Time Link to 01:03:02

Sick hand for sure. I would probably have called the fop CR and of course call the reraise. If it had come back capped to me I would dump it thinking I was drawing to a chop at best and would still be sandwiched between the two aggressors in a huge pot on the turn.

Pygmy brings up good point about folding this on the flop. Lets face it, the player on your left has a monster based on our read. The problem is that the player whom CR doesn't necessarily have a big hand. In fact, might donking with a nut straight be a decent play for him, planning on 3 betting?

All this being said, I think folding the flop is the play weighting my decision heavily on the most likely holdings of the button which either have us crushed or drawing thinly because he has the cards we need.

The other problem with continuing here is that you will often times talk yourself into a call on the river in such a huge pot when you are clearly beaten.

*Chuckles* @ BBB. but, seriously, this is pretty standard for me here w/ ATC, could this in any way be a leak? My mentality behind it is if we're only raising w/ the value part of our range here and knuckling everything else there's balancing issues, correct?

there are at least two schools of thought here, maybe more

one is to raise atc in bb when sb completes

another is to just raise value hands + some playability hands for balance etc (what i currently do w/o reason/info to raise atc - which i did have here as pyg pointed out - but i missed it)

i'm sure a third is just to raise value hands but for me being in position and liking suity and connecty i kind of expand my value range in my head and click the raise button without thinking about it

I think given you had evidence that this player is passive, and you had an intiuitive feeling you were crushed, and the fact that you may be drawing dead and have to avoid many bad river cards, and are simply not ahead of enough hands you hope to be ahead of, like an Ace with a heart kicker lower than your nine, and the pot is not super big but if you call, you will be putting in another bet on the river most likely.....This should be a fold.

This has to be the longest sentence ever. I am no English major as you can see.

i came super close to pulling the trigger on this fold as well

Sick hand for sure. I would probably have called the fop CR and of course call the reraise. If it had come back capped to me I would dump it thinking I was drawing to a chop at best and would still be sandwiched between the two aggressors in a huge pot on the turn.

Pygmy brings up good point about folding this on the flop. Lets face it, the player on your left has a monster based on our read. The problem is that the player whom CR doesn't necessarily have a big hand. In fact, might donking with a nut straight be a decent play for him, planning on 3 betting?

All this being said, I think folding the flop is the play weighting my decision heavily on the most likely holdings of the button which either have us crushed or drawing thinly because he has the cards we need.

The other problem with continuing here is that you will often times talk yourself into a call on the river in such a huge pot when you are clearly beaten.

pyg strongly maintains that he would fold the flop. i will say that he, when we started discussing it, immediately started thinking further along in the hand than i did. what i mean is that i wasn't looking at the hand in a holistic and long-term-enough-connected kind of thing like he was where he was already looking at all the likely action that was going to go in, and how that reduced my odds both effective and implied for the rest of the streets of the hand.

so i think that makes it 2-1 in favor of folding

I would think the TAG might eliminate some of the mid suited connectors since he is isoing an all in player. I think his range should be something like: A7o+ KTo+ A4s+ QTs+ JTs+ 44+ K9s+. He has good equity with any Ace here, however, I am thinking he needs to be a little tighter since there are players still left to act after him. The same applies for pairs.

In reality, the TAGs range appears to be closer to A2o+ 22+ K9o+ A2s+ JTs+ K7s+ from seeing the showdown. Even against this range you only have about 44% equity HU. When you throw in the other player, your overall equity is about 30%

What would be your 3b range if you were the TAG here?

well to some extent i would argue that he should loosen up, precisely -because- there are players behind him, and he really really wants to get at the ai shorty who probably has a super wide range. or at least, that's my first hunch. i agree with you that i am having a tough time coming up with a stove range where it's like LOLpunishing him. but at the same time i get lots of ranges where we're in the 40something% equity range. and we 3b the button with those kinds of hands all the time against an aggro co opener so i guess i feel like this situation is pretty similar.

Thanks for a great series. I have to say, I subscribed to deuces in small part to the roshambo at the beginning of episode one and PygmyHero's "your rock was a dog to my range" comment.

I can't believe you guys teased that joke for like 10 minutes.

IT WAS A DOG TO MY RANGE!!!!!

Really cool spot, with the turn being a T I like betting twice when the river bricks off but, if the turn was the T I would pretty much always c/f the river when it comes a blank

Just thinking that he has a bunch of one diamond hands that he will play passive

Yep, I think that's all pretty reasonable. I'm glad you brought that up as the T non- turn is a hypothetical we didn't go into. I agree with your thoughts.

I REALLY like checking the river when we hit our 9, we don't have to bluff anymore and we're not getting to many worse hands to call us

he might get desperate for his last bet with QJ or w/e he peels with

I think betting would be really bad

First of all you're borderline cheating by bringing this hand up and NOT mentioning that villain only had 1.25 bets on the river. This spot DOES play differently when he has a full stack, which BBB mentioned in the vid. I might tend to x/c more in that sort of spot.

I see this spot as:

Villain vbets pretty well/perfectly when we're behind.

I agree he might desperation bluff if we check BUT I think he might also desperation CALL with as little as K/Q high when we bet. Overall I have trouble imagining this factor would be a hugely winning argument for either side (bet or check).

I guess the place I disagree with you is the calling range. Worse pocket pairs: 88, 77, 44-22 = 30 combos. Yeah he doesn't have them 100%, but toss in some 6x, K high hands / random stack offs. I believe the total number of combos we beat (whatever it may be) compares favorable with Ax hands (keeping in mind that those are reduced as some may have given more action / raised effectively AI on the turn).

Hi guys,

Is this a standard bet on the turn? Does it make sense to check and hope to induce bluffs or thin bets and avoid getting raised? I am not sure how much value we have in a bet and it seems the villian will be folding here quite often with hands that he otherwise don't have many outs against us. We are ahead of a lot of Queens, but the villian may bet this for us anyway. We are ahead of smaller pocket pairs but they may fold to our bet. We do get value from some weak peels that have now turned into flush draws on the turn.

What would be your plan if you were raised on this turn?

Thanks.

I'm glad you pointed this one out - I actually feel like BBB and I missed it a little bit at the time of the vid. Looking at it now I think I do actually prefer a x/c on the turn for the reasons you state.

As played, if we get raised getting ~7:1 I'd call with what I assume are often good two pair / gut outs (because he'll have Ax so often) and make a very unhappy river decision.

I think capping here with A3s would be bad. Your going to be OOP, behind equity wise and in a basically dry pot post flop. Even if we get the button out with a flop bet, our hot n cold equity against the all in player can't be much better than even.

Okay so I re-listened and I think it sounds like I am more in favor of the cold cap here than I am. So let me be clear here - I think this is a fold. When BBB went back to it and I said something like, 'it's reasonable,' I didn't really mean I though cold capping was reasonable here (which may be how it sounded). I more meant it's reasonable to look it, think about it, etc. It's not a turbo-muck.

Time Link to 00:52:59

OMG - I can't believe we had to pause here for joke screening.

*Chuckles* @ BBB. but, seriously, this is pretty standard for me here w/ ATC, could this in any way be a leak? My mentality behind it is if we're only raising w/ the value part of our range here and knuckling everything else there's balancing issues, correct?

I think there's some merit to raising ATC - it's a very RAWR approach and possibly profitable. But it might not be the most profitable approach.

I wouldn't worry too much about balancing - generally when we're even thinking about this sort of strategy we're going to be facing a very weak player.

Also, to some extent both of your points ignore that a flop will come down. That is, if we always PFR we might only have a small edge (or worse). But if we check and flop something we may be able to put in money post flop with a MUCH larger edge. Hence, greater profitability (possibly).

The balance thing is similar in my mind - we could be checking a VERY large range PF and then mixing up our stabs, semi-bluffs, vbets well post flop.

Time Link to 00:58:21

So the reason I gave BBB this look of utter horror is because he made a statement about the ABSOLUTE strength of our hand (i.e., 'we have a pair of aces'). To me the vastly predominant factor was the RELATIVE strength of our hand. I mean, we got cold-capped and are now facing a x/r.

pyg strongly maintains that he would fold the flop. i will say that he, when we started discussing it, immediately started thinking further along in the hand than i did. what i mean is that i wasn't looking at the hand in a holistic and long-term-enough-connected kind of thing like he was where he was already looking at all the likely action that was going to go in, and how that reduced my odds both effective and implied for the rest of the streets of the hand.

so i think that makes it 2-1 in favor of folding

Yeah, this is a good supplemental point. I do feel this is kind of a spot where a flop error we made kind of compounded and made us make larger (monetarily speaking) errors on later streets.

To reiterate, I like folding here because:
The action strongly indicates our hand is trash
We are not getting nearly the price it initially appears because we are not closing the action
Our two pair / trip outs need to be signficantly discounted
When we hit our gut we might end up only chopping
Some of our outs are likely in our opponent's hand

Interesting and rare spot.

Firstly, great vid again, guys.

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24:53 on the right.

We hold JK

on

A 9 Q, J

I really don't see much reason to bet this turn OOP unless we are trying to induce a raise from Tx or hearts because we know villain raises a ton of turns. I don't think we need to protect our hand. We have value inducing bluffs hu here.
You two even discussed that when you check here you are usually folding. So maybe x/c here with this exact type of hand: weaker pair + gut OOP that doesn't want to be raised but doesn't need protection because of the board and potsize.

---

50:00 A 9

With your read, this would have been a sick b/f on the turn. I agree with above that if you think he never semibluffs here, we need to fold the turn.

The comment, "Should we b/3bet if we had a set here?" was very impactful for me. If we don't really want 3bet a set, meaning his range is only freakin' monsters, we should probably b/f our A-bad kicker/drawing dead a ton on the turn. Powerful tip, imo. Very useful for live play too.

---

more awesome analysis, as per usual...

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58:00 sick AJ hand.

We need to be disciplined and lay this down on the flop (due to all the factors that are talked about). Pygmy gives awesome, accurate analysis of ranges, pot size and how our gut outs are tainted and missing a ton, we don't have IO, and btn's range is always super strong. I would not be happy holding AQ even here, but at least I'd have the best kicker. AJ is way down on the totem pole when heavy betting starts going in on this board, and with spades out there and none in our hand, things get very dirty.

As an aside, when we make ninja laydowns like this (when rarely and accurately applied), we get more action on later hands a lot because villain may remember this hand and just lose his mind trying to make us fold.

Great hand.

---

1:07:00

so I've been playing a lot of huhu lately...

We open Q8 in the HJ, which I think is loose but whatever, and only the BB calls. Flop comes 9J9 and BBB says, "Don't you hate getting x/r on this board?" Considering this is one of the worst hands in our pf range, we have a gutter + some stuff like an overcard and bdFD, and the board is very bluff happy (we get x/r a lot, hence BBB's comment), would you ever consider checking back the flop here in this hu and small pot? I think I would call almost all turns and decide on the river. This may be a spot to raise the turn against some villains who may b/f Ahigh or low PPs at that point, or bet/give-up with worse draws, but I would need to think about the turn more.

Thoughts?

---

gg

ciao

24:53 on the right.

We hold JK

on

A 9 Q, J

I really don't see much reason to bet this turn OOP unless we are trying to induce a raise from Tx or hearts because we know villain raises a ton of turns. I don't think we need to protect our hand. We have value inducing bluffs hu here.
You two even discussed that when you check here you are usually folding. So maybe x/c here with this exact type of hand: weaker pair + gut OOP that doesn't want to be raised but doesn't need protection because of the board and potsize.

Is your plan to just x/c two streets then?

I will say that I'm not sure if this should be a check or bet. Let me lay out what I see as the argument for betting:

In 3b pots I think people call and peel widely. We beat all Jx, Tx, 9x, and hearts (and Kx and other funny peels) - I think that's a decent range we're value betting against.

At the same time, I don't think they bluff a ton (not as much as they should), probably because of the stronger perceived hand ranges. So when we check I think we're kind of inviting our opponent to value bet perfectly (despite villain's river check most guys will vbet Ax and Qx no problem here when you check), and take free cards with draws and worse hands.

Lastly, I'm not sure if being unbalanced when I check here is a problem or not. First off I'm not checking a ton since I'd fire again with a lot of my non-SD range (fighting for a bigger PF pot). At the same time, K-baby, a hand I said I'd give up with, wouldn't be a PF 3b for me.

50:00 A 9

With your read, this would have been a sick b/f on the turn. I agree with above that if you think he never semibluffs here, we need to fold the turn.

The comment, "Should we b/3bet if we had a set here?" was very impactful for me. If we don't really want 3bet a set, meaning his range is only freakin' monsters, we should probably b/f our A-bad kicker/drawing dead a ton on the turn. Powerful tip, imo. Very useful for live play too.

Yeah I think we should have b/f-ed here. I know this came up in another video where I said something like, 'if we've spent all this time acquiring this read and we need to use it when a spot like this comes up.'

By the way, I'm still not convinced we should 3b a set.

58:00 sick AJ hand.

We need to be disciplined and lay this down on the flop (due to all the factors that are talked about). Pygmy gives awesome, accurate analysis of ranges, pot size and how our gut outs are tainted and missing a ton, we don't have IO, and btn's range is always super strong. I would not be happy holding AQ even here, but at least I'd have the best kicker. AJ is way down on the totem pole when heavy betting starts going in on this board, and with spades out there and none in our hand, things get very dirty.

As an aside, when we make ninja laydowns like this (when rarely and accurately applied), we get more action on later hands a lot because villain may remember this hand and just lose his mind trying to make us fold.

Great hand.

Thanks, I'm actually really proud of this one. I think I had a lot of the right factors in mind as the hand occurred (real time to me as the watcher). Of course, I can't guarantee I could have put it all together as the player (since that tends to occlude your perspective a bit), so I don't fault BBB's play here, but I'm going to stick to my first thoughts - it's a fold.

1:07:00

so I've been playing a lot of huhu lately...

We open Q8 in the HJ, which I think is loose but whatever, and only the BB calls. Flop comes 9J9 and BBB says, "Don't you hate getting x/r on this board?" Considering this is one of the worst hands in our pf range, we have a gutter + some stuff like an overcard and bdFD, and the board is very bluff happy (we get x/r a lot, hence BBB's comment), would you ever consider checking back the flop here in this hu and small pot? I think I would call almost all turns and decide on the river. This may be a spot to raise the turn against some villains who may b/f Ahigh or low PPs at that point, or bet/give-up with worse draws, but I would need to think about the turn more.

It's funny - just the other day I had a conversation about the flop check back and how it's starting to crop up at the tables. I'll be honest - I haven't thought about or studied this play enough to be able to say what types of hands you should check back on which boards. I do feel generally that HU our fold equity is generally too high to check back often. It's also very hard to incorporate into your game with anything resembling balance (partly due to unfamiliarity).

I'm not sure what direction it will go - it might become a trend, but I'm not ready to adopt yet. I'm just not convinced it has sufficient strategic merit. That said, I'll admit I didn't really answer your questions, but that's because I don't really have a great answer.

Time Link to 01:04:39

When we check raise JT on 597 vs aggressive opponent, what's the rest of the plan when villain calls rather than 3-bets? We were denied this discussion because of the 8 on the turn.

My guess is bet/fold any heart, bet/call (maybe raise?) 8,J or 10?

My naive guess is that LAGs like to isolate with pocket pairs (sometimes small) and hands with showdown value (potentially with weak kickers) so are we only really worried about overs on the turn A, K and possibly Q.

So, rest of plan might be:

check/fold A,K,Q.

Bet/fold anything else.

?

JK on A9Q,J

Is your plan to just x/c two streets then?

Assuming the river blanks and we have nothing more to think about, yes, sure. Why not? You ask this like you've never considered it.

I will say that I'm not sure if this should be a check or bet. Let me lay out what I see as the argument for betting:

In 3b pots I think people call and peel widely. We beat all Jx, Tx, 9x, and hearts (and Kx and other funny peels) - I think that's a decent range we're value betting against.

Are you b/calling down turn here? I like betting better if villain will raise a wide turn range.

All Ax/Qx/better are beating us. Better is not folding.

Arguments for checking:
We also do not allow crushed hands to fold when we check, possibly inducing in this larger pot. We cannot be raised by better. Worse can still bet for us when we check.

At the same time, I don't think they bluff a ton (not as much as they should), probably because of the stronger perceived hand ranges. So when we check I think we're kind of inviting our opponent to value bet perfectly (despite villain's river check most guys will vbet Ax and Qx no problem here when you check), and take free cards with draws and worse hands.

Random villains are notoriously bad a vbetting. The live example shows this. You're giving people a lot of credit for being able to perfectly vbet us on both the turn and river.

Lastly, I'm not sure if being unbalanced when I check here is a problem or not. First off I'm not checking a ton since I'd fire again with a lot of my non-SD range (fighting for a bigger PF pot). At the same time, K-baby, a hand I said I'd give up with, wouldn't be a PF 3b for me.

Let me just throw something out there. If you always bet/bet after 3betting pf, you're giving me an easier time against you. But, I'm not your average villain.

I don't think checking is necessarily better, but don't fight the urge to talk about it on camera.

If we sometimes x/c,x/c here, we can get free cards on other turns when we check, but these are meta considerations and a bit above the discussion here.

Long story short, I just wanted to bring up this line here for conversation.

gg

When we check raise JT on 597 vs aggressive opponent, what's the rest of the plan when villain calls rather than 3-bets? We were denied this discussion because of the 8 on the turn.

I think we're barreling the turn often because we have J high, and would fire again with any pair that x/r-ed this flop. As you note the A/K/Q seem to be bad cards to barrel, but I think probably everything else we should fire.

I would NOT put 3 bets in on a J or T turn.

Hi BusinessGypsy,

Re; the JK on A9Q,J hand

Assuming the river blanks and we have nothing more to think about, yes, sure. Why not? You ask this like you've never considered it.

I have read this over a half dozen times now and I really cannot come up with any even semi-reasonable interpretation of this where you are not being incredibly condescending towards me. I don't think that sort of attitude has any place in this thread.

If you go back and read your first post you will find you do not propose an alternative turn AND river line. My question was asked simply to clarify what line you would favor in this situation. As a person who asks a lot of questions in their posts I believe you should understand that someone asking a question does not imply they have never considered what they are asking about.

For you to ascribe other motives to my asking seems malicious at best and I want you to know that I do not appreciate it. I suggest that perhaps you should consider using a bit more tact.

Pgymy, I was, in no way, meaning to be malicious. I apologize that you read it as such.

I'm a little surprised by your response here honestly. You and BBB barely even consider x/c,x/c in the vid, so I was just stating my interpretation of the situation.

I feel that I'm one of the most friendly and active members in the low limit vid forums. This feels discouraging.

PS. I give you incredible credit throughout the rest of my posts, so please try to assume I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I apologize for the poorly worded sentence.

ciao