Episode Two

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Episode Two

In his SSNL preflop primer, sthief09 discusses preflop play in unraised pots, raised pots, and facing 3-bets, and how and when to adjust your play based on the players at the table.

tags: josh sthief09 sthief nlhe ssnl preflop play no limit preflop ipod friendly

This Series: Turning the Corner

Josh's highly-anticipated small-stakes No Limit guide. With all the widely available information on the internet, games are tougher than ever. This trickles all the way down to the small stakes and even micro-limit games. If you're not constantly improving, thousands of players who are will pass you right by, and as a result it's no longer good enough to be merely competent. Sthief09 moves from 50NL to 200NL, teaching you solid fundamentals, and showing you when it's correct to deviate from tight, straightfoward strategy. Whether you're a new player who wants to beat the small stakes games, or you're a veteran looking to increase your winrate and move up, this series will help you turn the corner on your poker game.

Previous Video: Episode One | Next Video: Episode Three

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Comments for Episode Two

BrentonMac
Deuce High
88 posts
Joined 01/08

Hey Josh,

Interesting video. I'll have to watch it a few times for it to really dig in. Any chance you can post your card on your blog?

Cheers,

Posted Mar 15, 2008 9:34pm

Kyro
Deuce High
8 posts
Joined 07/07

I noticed that in the bad column you remove A7s-A6s and A3s-A2s and therefore still open with A5s and A4s from the HJ. Can't see the point there.

And since this is aimed at small-stakes, I think the difference between raising limpers and openraising might be worth talking about at least a little bit.

Posted Mar 16, 2008 9:34am

sthief09
Exec Producer
Set of Deuces
321 posts
Joined 07/07

I noticed that in the bad column you remove A7s-A6s and A3s-A2s and therefore still open with A5s and A4s from the HJ. Can't see the point there.

And since this is aimed at small-stakes, I think the difference between raising limpers and openraising might be worth talking about at least a little bit.



yeah, the wheel cards add a little value in NL. The kicker/other pair difference between A7s and A2s is significant enough that I'd typically prefer the A7s, but A7s to A5s is close enough that the straight potential, along with the big draw potential, makes it a little bette rin my mind.

you mean in bet sizing, or how frequently? I mentioned that in the good situation/bad situation parts. poor playing limpers are a reason to open your raising range up, while tight limpers are a reason to tighten up.

Posted Mar 16, 2008 2:23pm

Natewc
Deuce High
9 posts
Joined 01/08

Great video, really looking forward to the rest of the series. Could you post the starting hand chart. Thanks.

Posted Mar 16, 2008 6:20pm

sthief09
Exec Producer
Set of Deuces
321 posts
Joined 07/07

Great video, really looking forward to the rest of the series. Could you post the starting hand chart. Thanks.




just put up the chart at www.sthief09.com

Posted Mar 16, 2008 8:01pm

Kyro
Deuce High
8 posts
Joined 07/07

you mean in bet sizing, or how frequently? I mentioned that in the good situation/bad situation parts. poor playing limpers are a reason to open your raising range up, while tight limpers are a reason to tighten up.



Frequency. I'm more of a limit player and it's somewhat strange, that every book about limit holdem tells you exactly what to do against 1,2 or 3 limpers, while in NL no one seems to care about them at all.

Posted Mar 17, 2008 10:04am

sthief09
Exec Producer
Set of Deuces
321 posts
Joined 07/07

you mean in bet sizing, or how frequently? I mentioned that in the good situation/bad situation parts. poor playing limpers are a reason to open your raising range up, while tight limpers are a reason to tighten up.

Frequency. I'm more of a limit player and it's somewhat strange, that every book about limit holdem tells you exactly what to do against 1,2 or 3 limpers, while in NL no one seems to care about them at all.




there are a few reasons for this. #1 is clearly that in LHE, if there are 2 limpers to you on the button and you raise, you're all but guaranteed 4 way pot. raising 54s on the button there is just pushing a negative edge that position can't make up for, whereas in NLHE not only does the button have more value, but you have a pretty decent chance of taking down a significant amount of dead money. that leads to another reason, which is that LHE is a showdown game. in that situation with the 2 limpers, and you raise, I'd guess there's going to be a showdown at least 50% of the time. I haven't played LHE in awhile, but that's a 7.25 SB pot even if the blinds fold, and that seems big enough that people go showdown monkey with A high or bottom pair. so if you're raising that 54s, the hand's value is going to run closely with it's crappy equity. in NLHE, with so many fewer showdowns, playability and position trump pot equity, and you push your edge by raising 64s or whatever. that 64s is also offering some great implied odds to higher cards of your suit, so it's best to be raising to clean up the flush draw (not to mention all the weak hands that dominate 64s), or just folding. limp-calling is just a gross spot for anyone to play in. throw in the potential to pick up dead money and 30+ vpip limpers are not a reason to tighten up. loose limpers are a reason to loosen up your raising range, while tight limpers are reason to tighten it.

I rambled and I don't know where to squeeze this in, but our big goal at a 6-max table is to play pots in position with bad players, preferably with initative. I can't think of a more efficient way of accomplishing this than raising limpers.

Posted Mar 17, 2008 1:38pm

snider
Deuce High
13 posts
Joined 01/08

Really liked the episode. I am hoping that you follow it up with some specifics on how you'd handle 3bet pots on several different types of flop, both in and out of position. That is an area of NLHE that I am always thinking about but just am not sure what to do, and it's expensive to learn via trial and error.

Posted Mar 17, 2008 7:37pm

pmhdd33
Deuce High
2 posts
Joined 01/08

Good stuff. I, too, hope some of the future focus of this series (or,an upcoming series) focuses on 3-bet pots. Huge issue for me as I move up in limits.

Looking forward to the next episode.

Posted Mar 21, 2008 7:03pm

spliff
Deuce High
14 posts
Joined 01/08

Very good video.

I am a bit confused as i recall you saying that we should call a raise very seldom from SB, because of BB being more inclined to squeeze + BB is getting good odds to call too.

You then said that you would call with AJ and middle pair.

Unless BB is a habitual squeezer we have to call with all pockets asuming opener has 100 BB's because of implied odds, right.

As to BB getting price to call is only an extra plus, since there are 3 instead of 2 possible stacks that we can stack - or am i missing something ?


I play on Ongame where there are far more 5.max tables than 6.max; should i disregard UTG in the chart and treat UTG in 5.max like HJ in 6.max - HJ on the chart is pretty much my UTG range in 5.max anyway.

Thanks for a great vid; helped me alot; specially the part regarding 3-betting (i have called and 3-bets and been 3-betting way to much OOP) :) and about good/bad situations.

Posted Apr 3, 2008 10:04pm

sthief09
Exec Producer
Set of Deuces
321 posts
Joined 07/07

Good stuff. I, too, hope some of the future focus of this series (or,an upcoming series) focuses on 3-bet pots. Huge issue for me as I move up in limits.

Looking forward to the next episode.




episode 6 is entirely devoted to 3-bet pots

Posted Apr 3, 2008 10:14pm

sthief09
Exec Producer
Set of Deuces
321 posts
Joined 07/07


I am a bit confused as i recall you saying that we should call a raise very seldom from SB, because of BB being more inclined to squeeze + BB is getting good odds to call too.



right

You then said that you would call with AJ and middle pair.



I'd usually 3-bet the AJ, but yeah 99-66 I call a lot

Unless BB is a habitual squeezer we have to call with all pockets asuming opener has 100 BB's because of implied odds, right.



well, I think this is something that a lot of people have realized within the last 6 months. if the button opens, and we have 22 in the SB, are we really getting the correct implied odds to justify calling? a button opener can have such a wide range that he's often not putting any more than one bet in the pot. then throw in that facing a raise from the sb is one of the worst situations you can be in preflop, and it's really not such an auto call. if you have a fishy BB who will often call but rarely 3-bet, then you can call. but otherwise I think you should typically be 3-betting or folding. if you have 66 you can call because you have pretty nice pair value, and you're not just checking and folding every non-set flop like with 22. some people 3-bet me with 88-55. I find myself outplaying them a lot because those hands just don't play all that well in 3-bet pots. I kind of like 44-22 because you're rarely in a spot where you're that tempted to get your stack in. either you flop a monster, or you flop nothing and just have to decide whether to bluff or not. sometimes after 3-betting 77 it can be tougher to get away.


As to BB getting price to call is only an extra plus, since there are 3 instead of 2 possible stacks that we can stack - or am i missing something ?



there's some good and some bad. the bad is that it's harder to win without improvement. with 22 I'd rather have it 3-ways. with 77, I'd rather headsup (but I'd also prefer a small pot so I don't 3-bet it much). you don't flop a set that often, and you don't figure to stack someone all that often, so the pair value is important.


I play on Ongame where there are far more 5.max tables than 6.max; should i disregard UTG in the chart and treat UTG in 5.max like HJ in 6.max - HJ on the chart is pretty much my UTG range in 5.max anyway.



more or less. you can loosen up slightly since it's a shorter game which should have a more aggressive dynamic, but I don't know anything about that network.

Posted Apr 3, 2008 10:28pm

spliff
Deuce High
14 posts
Joined 01/08

Top answers - really cleared things up for me.

Thanks a lot

Posted Apr 4, 2008 4:03pm

Luisma
Deuce High
7 posts
Joined 04/08

The video stops for me around min 9, (flash).

Posted Jun 15, 2008 2:53pm

Luisma
Deuce High
7 posts
Joined 04/08

The video stops for me around min 9, (flash).


Nvm was my pc

Posted Jun 15, 2008 3:31pm

Trillos
Deuce High
9 posts
Joined 06/08

good video, thanks

Posted Jun 21, 2008 11:46am

cobby
Deuce High
60 posts
Joined 05/08

Hey there. Watched this episode and I'm really astonished how much basics I just didn't know or how applied it in a total different way.
I have some questions which im not sure how to handle.

1. You say that a good situation is, when you can isolate a bad player. Further we don't want to play OOP. I always struggle with that, because on the one hand i often find myself playing against fishes, but unfortunatelly out of position. So is this a good situation, or a bad one (because they are very loose and call a lot, so that im mostly playing oop; nevertheless they are fishes i want to play against...)
So do you have a rule of thumb or some guidelines how much i should loosen up my range. Or shouldn't i do this at all, even when im possibly up against a loose fish (or more..)
btw: generally: if i have some good situation "factors" and some "bad situation", how do i know if i should loosen/tighten up? According to good s. factors i should loosen, according to the bad s. factors i should tighten up. What is more important. Any general rules for that? What has to be considered?

2. You said that you should call with bigger pockets and AK when you get 3bettet by a tight player. Let's say he 3bets us w/ AA-JJ, AK (which is tight xD); why should i call with AK? Show should this ever be +EV? My AK is totally stroke by his range???

Phew, i hope i can get some good answers from you. I'm looking forward to that.
Thx!

Posted Jun 23, 2008 12:39am

bholl
Deuce High
1 post
Joined 07/08

Hello I'm really liking the series so far.

Is there a print out available for the hand chart?

Thanks

Posted Jul 9, 2008 10:53pm

NinjaNico
Deuce High
4 posts
Joined 07/08

neither the online nor the mp4 version seems to have sound

Posted Jul 27, 2008 2:51pm

NinjaNico
Deuce High
4 posts
Joined 07/08

nevermind had my sound muted ^^

Posted Jul 27, 2008 2:52pm

xcesswee
Deuce High
2 posts
Joined 08/08

The video cuts off at the 18 minute mark. Does this happen to anyone else?

Posted Aug 5, 2008 6:05pm

Entity
Founder
Quad Deuces
2856 posts
Joined 11/06

The video cuts off at the 18 minute mark. Does this happen to anyone else?


Nope, downloads fine (Flash version) for me through the entire vid (just tested).

Rob

Posted Aug 5, 2008 6:25pm