Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by sthief09 (Micro/Small Stakes)

DC Shorts: Sthief09 (#9) - Facing 3Bets OOP

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DC Shorts: Sthief09 (#9) - Facing 3Bets OOP by sthief09

Sthief09 and deucescracked.com member, CDA, discuss some situations facing 3-bets out of position.

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Video Details

  • Game: nlhe
  • Stakes: Micro/Small Stakes
  • 26 minutes long
  • Posted about 2 years ago

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Comments for DC Shorts: Sthief09 (#9) - Facing 3Bets OOP

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SavingForBenz

Avatar for SavingForBenz

648 posts
Joined 12/2011

Another great vid! Perhaps for a part 3 could you look at flop play when we have 3 or 4 bet someone light?

Posted about 2 years ago

donkrx

Avatar for donkrx

68 posts
Joined 02/2012

Time Link to 00:12:18

If we didn't hit this flop in this situation, say we had AK or AT with some equity, what do you think about barreling turn and overbet bluffing the river on most cards (bricks and non-flush cards, because AXhh is in his check back range)? It seems like a spot where our opponent is never checking back a really strong hand on the flop, there's just way too much in our range that can call and there's a lot of cards that would either lose him the pot or kill his action. So knowing that he's only checking back AJ type hands and never monsters, it feels like the perfect spot to bet something around $4 on the turn and then overbet the river for like $21 into $13.

Posted about 2 years ago

CDA

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1526 posts
Joined 01/2009

Another great vid! Perhaps for a part 3 could you look at flop play when we have 3 or 4 bet someone light?



****Spoiler******


I think that's in the next vid....

Posted about 2 years ago

zachd2323

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3146 posts
Joined 04/2010

Another great vid! Perhaps for a part 3 could you look at flop play when we have 3 or 4 bet someone light?



Yeah I think this would be interesting as well. Thanks for the video, good stuff as usual!

Posted about 2 years ago

CDA

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1526 posts
Joined 01/2009

Yeah I think this would be interesting as well. Thanks for the video, good stuff as usual!



Won't be any 3betting by me though, as all the hands are situations when I open and face a 3bet.

Posted about 2 years ago

FaceMyAlterEgo

Avatar for FaceMyAlterEgo

421 posts
Joined 07/2010

Time Link to 00:19:44

You argue that our 4bet range would get too wide, if we 4bet A8s type hands a bluf and add 4bet calling with AQ. But exactly due to this fact, 4bet calling AQ becomes better, and since our 4bet calling range is so wide, our wider 4bet bluffing range is protected.

So, vs an adjusting apponent, it would make sence to do both, maybe start by bluffing more, then add more light 4bet calls. It almost seems, as doing only one of both is bad.

Posted about 2 years ago

Prologion

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2093 posts
Joined 03/2010

Is it possible to listen to it only (only audio-version) and getting all the HHs?
I mean, do you explain the HHs-spot enough before talking about the hand or not, so that it is important to watch the vid to get the HHs-situation?

Posted about 2 years ago

VarianceMonkey

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362 posts
Joined 07/2010

Time Link to 00:19:00

Josh, the AClubQClub hand on QHeart7HeartJDiamond6Club9Heart

The concept you discuss about value betting the river because you will feel gross if we check and villain bets. It this the same concept of betting to keep from getting bluffed?

BTW, awesome vid.

Posted about 2 years ago

goldseraph

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1450 posts
Joined 03/2008

Hand 1 with AQo, I usually flat in this spot unless the opponent is super aggro preflop and I'm comfortable snapping off his 5bets. You said that this guy seems to 3bet a very high amount in this spot, but his overall 3bet % wasn't that high, and his 3bet from blinds was like 7 and 12% which is nothing crazy, so yeah I would just flat the 3bet.
AQ plays pretty damn well against a fairly wide 3betting range even oop. If you flop an A or Q high flop you just don't fold ever, you can steal once in a while when he gets a real bad flop for his range and doesnt cbet, you also can try c/r-ing sometimes on a flop like TJx, KTx because you have equity vs his calling range, plus fold equity against his Ax hands and the small to mid pp's he was 3betting to 3bet/5bet.

Posted about 2 years ago

goldseraph

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1450 posts
Joined 03/2008

Josh, the AClubQClub hand on QHeart7HeartJDiamond6Club9Heart

The concept you discuss about value betting the river because you will feel gross if we check and villain bets. It this the same concept of betting to keep from getting bluffed?

BTW, awesome vid.



Check calling the river here seems like a good option to me. After you call 3bet oop, he checks thru flop, you bet turn +river what can he really call with here? His range for checking back flop, calling turn should be like AJ KJ JTs J9s TT 99 88 T9s 76s , maybe AK? Am I missing anything? What part of that range can we get value from betting turn + river (and sthief suggested betting pretty big on the river to be balanced with what we'd bluff size). It seems like any one pair hand must fold, so why not check so that he perhaps turns his hand into a bluff, realizing the river is a big draw completing card and that you must have some showdown value to have checked. So then he turns his weak one pairs and AK into bluffs perhaps?

Posted about 2 years ago

mystake

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42 posts
Joined 08/2010

Time Link to 00:17:08

So what hands are you puting him on when he shoves on you on the river? Q9s, J9s that could potentially 3bet bluff pre? These are at least the only hands I could see him having in this spot that he would raise for value. Could we expect our opponent to turn something like JT,KJ or a weak Q (say QT or smt) into a bluff here?

Posted about 2 years ago

Befeltingu

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264 posts
Joined 12/2009

Time Link to 00:17:30

Although you dont expect a lot of people to be bluffing in this spot I dont really see much of a value range that he could have. Maybe he has 99 or slowplayed JJ (which seems unlikely). But I think a lot of his 2 pair hands that he made on the river are just calling also KT and flushes are assumedley always betting the flop. I would probably end up folding also but it is a pretty suspicious line especially sense you bet so small on the river which could have induced something possibly.

Posted about 2 years ago

Befeltingu

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264 posts
Joined 12/2009

Check calling the river here seems like a good option to me. After you call 3bet oop, he checks thru flop, you bet turn +river what can he really call with here? His range for checking back flop, calling turn should be like AJ KJ JTs J9s TT 99 88 T9s 76s , maybe AK? Am I missing anything? What part of that range can we get value from betting turn + river (and sthief suggested betting pretty big on the river to be balanced with what we'd bluff size). It seems like any one pair hand must fold, so why not check so that he perhaps turns his hand into a bluff, realizing the river is a big draw completing card and that you must have some showdown value to have checked. So then he turns his weak one pairs and AK into bluffs perhaps?



I would assume for all the one pair hands that you mention to check back and then trips + 2pair to bet so c/c would only be good if you think he turns hands like TJ into a bluff. Also it is possible he calls you with some of those Jx hands or perhaps KQ on the river thinking that his own range is face up as weak in this spot.

Posted about 2 years ago

AAIcarusAA

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65 posts
Joined 02/2011

Time Link to 00:08:37

So you would just call here correct?
If im reading your HUD correctly you have 8k on this player, do i believe you have a idea of whar hands he is 3 betting here.
I was playing on a site that has a lot of Anonymous tables and i found myself on very awkward spots when i did call oop with this specific hands.
Lets say you call and the board come Q 7 J ( 2tone)and he auto bets . Would u be inclined to call here or raise his cbet?
Im my personal experience, and im a player who is constantly struggling to be agressive, because is not my nature, if i end up just calling 3 streets its almost like poker karma bites me and give him 2 random pair turn or river.
My question is: u said that when you 3 bet , i give him the chance to play perfectly. So on a Q high flop we call twice/give up to 3rd barrel, or we raise flop?
Same apllys to A on k high flops

Posted almost 2 years ago

sthief09

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2961 posts
Joined 07/2007

So you would just call here correct?
If im reading your HUD correctly you have 8k on this player, do i believe you have a idea of whar hands he is 3 betting here.
I was playing on a site that has a lot of Anonymous tables and i found myself on very awkward spots when i did call oop with this specific hands.
Lets say you call and the board come Q 7 J ( 2tone)and he auto bets . Would u be inclined to call here or raise his cbet?
Im my personal experience, and im a player who is constantly struggling to be agressive, because is not my nature, if i end up just calling 3 streets its almost like poker karma bites me and give him 2 random pair turn or river.
My question is: u said that when you 3 bet , i give him the chance to play perfectly. So on a Q high flop we call twice/give up to 3rd barrel, or we raise flop?
Same apllys to A on k high flops




yeah not a good spot. leading the flop is an interesting alternative on QJ7 two-tone. in general I'm not a huge fan of cc cc cc when (1) very few worse hands will value bet 3 times, and (2) it's not a spot villain will 3 barrel that often, unless he's got a hand with significant equity like AK+FD. on the other hand, I have a problem with just planning on calling off 50bb only to fold TPTK on the river getting 3-1.

whenever you're in a spot and think "this line is standard but wow nothing good is going to come out of it" it can be good to explore alternatives. I don't hate check-raising but I don't love it either. leading about 1/3-1/2 pot is interesting.

Posted almost 2 years ago

cpau33

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2601 posts
Joined 11/2009

First hand: AQ in bvb

If, for exemple, vilain has a 3bet % of like 15-20, you said that you would be more inclined to 4bet AQ because you have a lot of FE. So I guess you are 4bet/calling. Do you assume that he can be stacking off lighter than a normal player ? I mean, he can be 3betting like a monkey but just stack off with premium. It wouldnt be better to flat oop w/AQ and good hands since his 3bet range is very wide ? And since we have lots of FE when we 4bet, it wouldnt be better to 4bet him more as a bluff and fold when he 5bets ?

Posted almost 2 years ago

sthief09

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2961 posts
Joined 07/2007

First hand: AQ in bvb

If, for exemple, vilain has a 3bet % of like 15-20, you said that you would be more inclined to 4bet AQ because you have a lot of FE. So I guess you are 4bet/calling. Do you assume that he can be stacking off lighter than a normal player ? I mean, he can be 3betting like a monkey but just stack off with premium. It wouldnt be better to flat oop w/AQ and good hands since his 3bet range is very wide ? And since we have lots of FE when we 4bet, it wouldnt be better to 4bet him more as a bluff and fold when he 5bets ?




yeah, that's the assumption, that he won't 3-bet 15-20% and fold 80-85% of the time he doesn't have a premium. of course it's possible though. if he's going to fold 80% of his hands the first 2 times we do it before he adjusts and starts 3b/5b pocket pairs or worse unpaired hands, then I agree that 4-betting AQ is a waste.

Posted almost 2 years ago

minimalist

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177 posts
Joined 09/2011

Check calling the river here seems like a good option to me. After you call 3bet oop, he checks thru flop, you bet turn +river what can he really call with here? His range for checking back flop, calling turn should be like AJ KJ JTs J9s TT 99 88 T9s 76s , maybe AK? Am I missing anything? What part of that range can we get value from betting turn + river (and sthief suggested betting pretty big on the river to be balanced with what we'd bluff size). It seems like any one pair hand must fold, so why not check so that he perhaps turns his hand into a bluff, realizing the river is a big draw completing card and that you must have some showdown value to have checked. So then he turns his weak one pairs and AK into bluffs perhaps?



Thanks for explaining yourself so well, this is pretty much exactly what I was thinking, and was pretty surprised when it was suggested we bet river (and that large to boot).

Posted over 1 year ago



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