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Poker Video: Limit Hold'Em by BigBadBabar (Mid Stakes)

Time Link to 00:50:07

c/c for all the reasons you stated.

Leading there doesn't have enough upside.

Time Link to 00:39:56

(Left Table) I think if we have aggressive players behind us in this spot, we should consider just folding the flop with bottom pair?

Also, I think turn is a bet planning to fold to any more action. We can fold out UTG's overs and check back the river Heads Up vs flop donker.

Time Link to 00:44:10

(Middle Table) Thinking about our range on this turn, I think we're at close to the bottom with KJ, maybe only K7/Q7s/J6s is worse? I don't like turning our hand into a bluff because people like to call down on these boards, but its interesting that its not a bad candidate.

Time Link to 00:47:47

(I think this is the same spot neket is referencing)

(Middle Table) River seems like a bet is better than a Check. I think his range for checking back the turn are hands like 33-77, some Ace hi & maybe KJ/KQ or 8x. I feel like he's pretty unlikely to bet most of those hands on the river, but could call with them reasonably often. I also don't think he as any air on this river (worse than ace hi) that checks back the turn. FWIW, I think we should be value betting strong 8x in this spot.

Regarding the river raise, I think from a GTO point of view we can't fold KJ because its just way too high up in our (maybe just my) range, but I agree that this is an unlikely spot for villain to bluff raise. Kinda goes back to his range being a lot of hands with marginal showdown value and taggy villains generally don't turn these into bluffs. Given he's an unknown, maybe that makes it a call and we can fold something a little weaker.

c/c for all the reasons you stated.

Leading there doesn't have enough upside.

the KJcc hand? yeah, agree with check/call river

(Left Table) I think if we have aggressive players behind us in this spot, we should consider just folding the flop with bottom pair?

Also, I think turn is a bet planning to fold to any more action. We can fold out UTG's overs and check back the river Heads Up vs flop donker.

i think at 9:1 it's just too good of a price to fold for one more bet. i could maybe see doing it in a live game for example, where you pick up a tell that UTG is going to pop it, or maybe just where UTG ranges in a live fullring game are going to be stronger than in a SH online game, thus it's much more likely to get raised behind us.

yeah agree with turn bet, i think i talked myself around to it in the voiceover

(Middle Table) Thinking about our range on this turn, I think we're at close to the bottom with KJ, maybe only K7/Q7s/J6s is worse? I don't like turning our hand into a bluff because people like to call down on these boards, but its interesting that its not a bad candidate.

i probably fold the flop with q7 and j6 (or bluffcheckraise them more than c/c them) but yeah i see what you're saying. honestly since i mostly fold my weak stuff pre, and call the middle and top stuff, and this is a middle-y board, it's hard for me not to have some kind of piece here, so usually the weakest stuff i have after c/c the flop is going to be ace or king high.

you could argue that something like say a3s, while higher up in the range than kjs, is going to be more difficult to play and probably has about the same level of showdown value vs villain's range. with a doublegut and some overs i'm rarely going to be getting crushed vs his range here, but i think if he does choose to bet then he has a strongish and showdown-bound range where a checkraise doesn't really carry enough fold equity.

(I think this is the same spot neket is referencing)

(Middle Table) River seems like a bet is better than a Check. I think his range for checking back the turn are hands like 33-77, some Ace hi & maybe KJ/KQ or 8x. I feel like he's pretty unlikely to bet most of those hands on the river, but could call with them reasonably often. I also don't think he as any air on this river (worse than ace hi) that checks back the turn. FWIW, I think we should be value betting strong 8x in this spot.

Regarding the river raise, I think from a GTO point of view we can't fold KJ because its just way too high up in our (maybe just my) range, but I agree that this is an unlikely spot for villain to bluff raise. Kinda goes back to his range being a lot of hands with marginal showdown value and taggy villains generally don't turn these into bluffs. Given he's an unknown, maybe that makes it a call and we can fold something a little weaker.

i feel like i just want one bet to go in on this river, and i think i still prefer it as a check/call than as a bet/fold. the king is the card where a lot of his ace highs won't show down now, and it's unlikely i valuebet 2x (or have that many combos of it to begin with). so usually when people bet here they have like 8x, 9x, tx, kx, or stronger (something that made two pair, or whiffed a checkraise, or a bad slowplay, etc). i don't know that the range we've laid out for him is really going to call all that often.

almost seems like check/raise river has some merit (except then what if he 3bets ugh)

almost seems like check/raise river has some merit (except then what if he 3bets ugh)

Wouldn't that be turning a value-ish hand into a hard to believe bluff with a river c/r. Too often I think the villain's calling range for that line is winning.

I still c/c is best because AQ, AJ and K7, (and sometimes JT, QT) are betting for thin value enough to offset the times where AK,KQ and rivered 2pair hands are bet/calling.

almost seems like check/raise river has some merit (except then what if he 3bets ugh)

I guess I don't understand why you think his river value betting range is going to be wider than his calling range in this spot.

I still c/c is best because AQ, AJ and K7, (and sometimes JT, QT) are betting for thin value ...

Beside maybe K7, I don't think any of the hands you listed either bet the river or get to the river this way.

I guess I don't understand why you think his river value betting range is going to be wider than his calling range in this spot.



Beside maybe K7, I don't think any of the hands you listed either bet the river or get to the river this way.

Villain cbet the flop, and checked back a 1 card draw. Why wouldn't he bet a nut overcards after the draw bricked out for thin value?

What i mean to say is that the river K is a good card to bet for the villain considering all the action leading up to that point, regardless of his actual holding.

The draws missed, and the K is more likely to be in his range, than in BBB's.

Because there is no value on the river? Even if there is value, I expect the vast majority of players here to still not go for it. I think if villain bets the river with AJ/AQ, he thinks he's bluffing more often than he thinks he's value betting.

Because there is no value on the river? Even if there is value, I expect the vast majority of players here to still not go for it. I think if villain bets the river with AJ/AQ, he thinks he's bluffing more often than he thinks he's value betting.

Then wouldn't getting those AJ/AQ combos to bet, when they would otherwise fold to a lead all the more reason to c/c?

I guess my question here is what hands do we think the villain will call, that we don't think he'll bet when checked to twice. I'm saying that everything bets here, but not everything calls. I'm guessing that you're saying that everything calls, but doesn't bet frequently enough.

That's more or less it, which explains disagreement on the river action.

That's more or less it, which explains disagreement on the river action.

Slide, I know you have more experience in these situations, at this level. What kinds hands do you expect to see often here checking twice, and calling the river?

Slide, I know you have more experience in these situations, at this level. What kinds hands do you expect to see often here checking twice, and calling the river?

Well he C-bet the flop right? so he only checked back the turn and not the flop as well.

I'd say 33-77, A2, AQ/AJ, sometimes they just call with KJ/KQ too, maybe a hand like Q8. I feel like most opponents are pretty happy to just check down this river card with most of those hands once they check back the turn.

Note: I'm not saying I know for a fact my assumptions to be accurate in this case. I could easily be wrong here.