---

Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by KRANTZ (Mid Stakes)

Awesomeness.

Time Link to 00:55:22

So if we assume that the villain is folding Jx OTR, is it a good idea to raise the turn with the plan of shoving the river even thou we are not getting too many folds on the turn? And what if we river a K or Q? I would assume we would bet for value, but how much? I would think that it would have to be a small bet to get a call from Jx.

GoGoGoGoGoGo Creative Grinders

like it...

So if we assume that the villain is folding Jx OTR, is it a good idea to raise the turn with the plan of shoving the river even thou we are not getting too many folds on the turn? And what if we river a K or Q? I would assume we would bet for value, but how much? I would think that it would have to be a small bet to get a call from Jx.

I liked Jay's reasons for leading the turn on that card.

Results of first 2 hands????

Results of first 2 hands????

KT hand, I jammed, villain called JTo
67s hand, Jason bet, villain check/called with QQ

But let's not be results oriented

looks like a very promising series!

nice first video, looking forward for more

So if we assume that the villain is folding Jx OTR, is it a good idea to raise the turn with the plan of shoving the river even thou we are not getting too many folds on the turn? And what if we river a K or Q? I would assume we would bet for value, but how much? I would think that it would have to be a small bet to get a call from Jx.

Yes I think that getting Jx to call/fold at least some % is critical to making this line work.
I guess it's a high variance play though, there's just not enough "must fold" hands in his range so once we are relying on the opponent to fold TP+ we usually need to be damn sure.

Also, no gun present.

i'd love to see a live sweat soon
cool series

Yes I think that getting Jx to call/fold at least some % is critical to making this line work.
I guess it's a high variance play though, there's just not enough "must fold" hands in his range so once we are relying on the opponent to fold TP+ we usually need to be damn sure.

with regard to leading the turn in this hand, it seemed like jay's assumption was that his turn betting range on that card is strong. So I think an important question is - do we expect him to fold any Jx+ hands if we lead turn and bet the river?

if we:
A) don't expect him to fold those hands to a turn donk and
B) don't expect him to bluff the turn that often,

then leading the turn is just folding out a lot of the air that we can make fold on the river anyway, but getting called by made hands that we could have folded to had we checked.

thoughts?

Time Link to 00:16:48

i like the c/r idea a lot here

this is a board where he can elect to bluffraise/float a ton, esp given what you say about your opening and cbetting frequencies here (that they are geared entirely to exploit him, ie, get folds).

when you c/r, like jay says, he will bet most of his weak holdings. in addition, with his hands that might have bluffraised or floated (JT, QT, backdoor flush draw, whatever), he is in a much more constrained spot. he can float, but there is less money behind to exert pressure. further, most people simply are not comfortable floating versus unusual lines when they have air and are confused.

he will usually jam or fold, which is really good for us relative to how he would respond to a cbet.

Time Link to 00:23:11

i'm usually a huge fan of shoving against weird turn raises, but almost exclusively when it doesn't make sense.

for instance, KK4x, with or without a flush draw. there are obviously different reasons to raise the turn with nutted hands, but it's nearly always going to be worse than calling if the person betting is decent at all. therefore the person raising either is himself bad or thinks the bettor will play versus the raise worse than he would play the river versus a call.

on this board, i'm not sure how i would play the hands that BB is probably trying to rep, but i don't think it's terribly uncommon to see a slowplay come alive on a particularly coordinating turn card. the other main issue is he doesn't have a ton of hands to turn into bluffs. perhaps a few like AT (which you mention), but i don't think he has a lot to draw from here.

in short, i don't expect this to be a raise/fold from BB

Time Link to 00:26:04

I'd be interested to hear comments about villain's raise sizing on the turn. It looks a lot bigger than the standard turn raises that I think reg's normally make. I could be wrong, but I think I usually see an IP raise of 2.5-3x for both value and bluffs (which would make a raise to 35-42 dollars). Can we make anything of these slightly larger raises when we see them? What's also interesting is that despite making it a large raise on the turn, villain doesn't make it large enough to at least set up a river shove. Any thoughts on the type of info we can infer on these observations?

Time Link to 00:35:02

Ah! What the hell?! I wanted to know what happened!! lol

Ah! What the hell?! I wanted to know what happened!! lol

I jammed, he tank/called JTo.

Jay, were you really serious about playing 16 tables, i'm assuming you were just joking? Why, if yes?

Foxwoods wind?

Jay, were you really serious about playing 16 tables, i'm assuming you were just joking? Why, if yes?

Foxwoods wind?

what exactly did i say? don't remember

Time Link to 00:04:53

Sorry, should've included the timelink. You asked how many tables he plays, he said that he plays 8, and you said that was weak and you'll discuss it later.

gosh on the kt hand, im slightly blown away by how much we are investing here... we can only raise profitably (and pick up .25 or .5bb) IF we are +EV post flop... if we are going to war with hands like this, i bet raising pre is -EV...

on the flop he has some 7s, underpairs, gutters, 86/jt type deals, maybe ax with bdfd.. on the turn, what is clear to me is that we are way behind.... not just his made hands but he may have added a fd or picked up some outs... we aren't far head of those hands, AT/8 of hearts are ahead... im guessing we have 40% equity on the turn? less?

and what are we repping? what part of our value range will go broke here? i supposed in today's game we go broke with AA-QQ, but i'd be inclined to check call some of the time with those (ok maybe that is a huge leak for me)... would we go broke with AJ? i guess you would, but

it seems to me, given how wide we open and c-bet that in his shoes i'd expect to see air and draws much more than the nuts..

i think kt is basically garbage here - a little better than 72 (well worse than 72,but you get the idea).. so the question is have we denied his draws the odds to proceed? cos if not, we might as well set fire to our money...

villain is obviously terrible - (imho) - his raise with JT put him in a disgusting spot - does he expect us to fold better Js, 9s or overpairs? and then once he turns it into a bluff to call and pray for a gutter or that we've lost our mind seems crazy...

and we arent done... if he checks back the turn, and the river bricks, Im betting my 88 (hah) for value

i think a sensible sequence is (pre) raise, call... (flop) bet, call (or i dont hate raising the flop with his hand)... (turn) check, bet, fold... or bet, call... (river) check, bet, fold

or, am i off my trolley? (as we say in england)

your humble servant

gosh on the kt hand, im slightly blown away by how much we are investing here... we can only raise profitably (and pick up .25 or .5bb) IF we are +EV post flop... if we are going to war with hands like this, i bet raising pre is -EV...

we aren't always going to war with hands like this, we just happened to in this situation because the turn raise seemed to not make much sense. if you're continuously getting pwned by an opponent when you raise into him w KTo then you're probably getting pwned with slightly stronger preflop holdings too. you could tighten up in this spot (very reasonable solution), or you could learn to play the uncomfortable situations where the edges are smaller more profitably. the first solution is easier, the second will make you into a better player over time. check out the discussion around the hand again, i think we exhausted it from pretty much every angle in the video.

I posted the KT hand again here to see what others think people's ranges are. Feel free to chime in here or there

In the KT hand when villain reraises the turn is it possible that if he believes hero is value betting he could be building the pot with a 9 or a boat to get money in before a possible scarecard on the river stops his action.

A diamond/heart, 7 or J (0r 9) will all stop a great deal of action on the river...

21.45: I don't get why it such a strange spot for him to raise. If he is strong, shouldn't he get money in the pot?
And if he is bluffing, are we really considering doing something back with our TKo on a 998Js flop?
Aren't we just outleveling ourselves here?

I think we are getting way to deep into this hand trying to win it. We made a good raise pre flop. We c-betted the flop on a reasonable board on it, and we made a second barrel. We got raised. End of hand?

Another thing: Your question was earlier if regulars will call a flop like this lightly. My thoughts on that are that if he is a regular at 200nl he should know that this is a good spot to c-bet. Doesn't make that a good spot to either c/c, c/r instead of c-betting?

00.51: If we donkbet the turn. What rivercards can we continue on if he does call besides a A or a 9?
Or do we shutdown when we get called when leading the turn?
What rivercards do we shutdown with?