Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by Grindcore (Micro/Small Stakes)

The Thin Red Line: Episode One

This video is a two minute preview. To view the entire video, please Log In or Sign Up Now

The Thin Red Line: Episode One by Grindcore

Grindcore debuts his first series with this episode. He discusses the theory behind what is the red line, how do we effect it, and how can we learn from it.

About The Thin Red Line Subscribe to

DeucesCracked welcomes fan favorite and new instructor Grindcore to the fold with this original video series about that thin, red line – nonshowdown winnings. This winter Bart will take a look at some common misconceptions about the red line and discuss the ins and outs of how small stakes 6max players can pick up previously unreachable profit.

Tags

grindcore the thin red line theory powerpoint ipod friendly

Video Details

Downloads

Premium Subscribers can download high-quality, DRM-free videos in multiple formats.

Sign Up Today


Comments for The Thin Red Line: Episode One

or track by Email or RSS

DoNkey

Avatar for DoNkey

178 posts
Joined 12/2008

Yeeessss!!!! Have been excited about this since I first heard about it.

Posted over 7 years ago

A-LX

Avatar for A-LX

588 posts
Joined 09/2009

same been lucking forward to this as well.

btw are you dutch? you kinda have a dutch accent Poke Tongue

Posted over 7 years ago

Jier

Avatar for Jier

1 posts
Joined 11/2008

A bit too long... but really good explanations Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

simpleme

Avatar for simpleme

1052 posts
Joined 07/2009

30 minutes in and great stuff, loved the intro btw

Posted over 7 years ago

doc.lemon

Avatar for doc.lemon

1810 posts
Joined 07/2009

Time Link to 00:31:50

I have to say that I dont know the author and that his presentation skills and voice projection seemed awkward.

but his concepts are pure gold! 5/5 and i am just in 25% of the vid

Posted over 7 years ago

improva

Avatar for improva

3916 posts
Joined 02/2008

Liked it! Concepts were very clear. But I guess I'm a little biased Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

Monsternut

Avatar for Monsternut

63 posts
Joined 07/2008

this is the nutz! u r the man! u make the best and outstanding videos about Poker I have ever seen. Keep on doing bro. After beeing a member for over a year now, I just canceled my membership. but because of this series I have to rejoin DC.

Posted over 7 years ago

CRD

Avatar for CRD

4 posts
Joined 10/2008

Great stuff! The only thing to improve on this video would be to use more graphics to illustrate the examples. I'm looking forward to the sweat session(s)

Posted over 7 years ago

simpleme

Avatar for simpleme

1052 posts
Joined 07/2009

But I guess I'm a little biased Smile



Why is that?

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

same been lucking forward to this as well.

btw are you dutch? you kinda have a dutch accent Poke Tongue



Yes Smile

A bit too long...



Yeah sorry... I tried to cover as much of the stuff as possible that I normally go over in the 1st theory session of my coaching program, which is 2+ hours.

I have to say that I dont know the author and that his presentation skills and voice projection seemed awkward.

but his concepts are pure gold! 5/5 and i am just in 25% of the vid



Yeah I'm not the greatest public speaker, I'm more of a thinker. I did several recording attempts and picked the best one.

Why is that?



He coached me Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

improva

Avatar for improva

3916 posts
Joined 02/2008


Yeah sorry... I tried to cover as much of the stuff as possible that I normally go over in the 1st theory session of my coaching program, which is 2+ hours.)



This good easy have been 3 vids.

Posted over 7 years ago

Jeffrey

Avatar for Jeffrey

103 posts
Joined 10/2009

Is this only suitable to 6max games or also to HU players?

Posted over 7 years ago

Hielko

Avatar for Hielko

4408 posts
Joined 07/2008

Is this only suitable to 6max games or also to HU players?


This video is only theory; so suitable for everything Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

Hielko

Avatar for Hielko

4408 posts
Joined 07/2008

Time Link to 01:01:18

You don't have to play honest on the flop against players who second or tripple barrel a lot; as long as you don't play honest on the turn and/or river too.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Is this only suitable to 6max games or also to HU players?



I'm a 6max player. All the discussed concepts should be valid from 3 to 10 handed play. HU is alot different though, I'm not sure how useful this video is for pure HU players. Some of the postflop in the end might be useful for that I guess.

Posted over 7 years ago

Zuberi

Avatar for Zuberi

458 posts
Joined 06/2009

Sounded Simple

Avatar for Sounded Simple

1009 posts
Joined 03/2008

I really enjoyed this vid, everything you said seemed to click and make sense. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

A lot of people might disagree with me but when you say "the rest will be 7 sweat sessions". I hope that by "sweat" you don't just mean 100% live play, I think some of the concepts you discuss are too important and deep to be swept along with the flow of live play.

Posted over 7 years ago

simpleme

Avatar for simpleme

1052 posts
Joined 07/2009



A lot of people might disagree with me but when you say "the rest will be 7 sweat sessions". I hope that by "sweat" you don't just mean 100% live play, I think some of the concepts you discuss are too important and deep to be swept along with the flow of live play.



+1

Posted over 7 years ago

seventhsense

Avatar for seventhsense

4 posts
Joined 10/2009

+1 reviews and time spots on the way Grin

Posted over 7 years ago

mogwai316

Avatar for mogwai316

712 posts
Joined 07/2008


A lot of people might disagree with me but when you say "the rest will be 7 sweat sessions". I hope that by "sweat" you don't just mean 100% live play, I think some of the concepts you discuss are too important and deep to be swept along with the flow of live play.



Agree, I'd rather see each episode emphasize a particular topic and have some focus rather than just turn this into yet another 'ghost' series.

Posted over 7 years ago

PaulWIlson

Avatar for PaulWIlson

19 posts
Joined 07/2008

I really enjoyed this vid, everything you said seemed to click and make sense. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

A lot of people might disagree with me but when you say "the rest will be 7 sweat sessions". I hope that by "sweat" you don't just mean 100% live play, I think some of the concepts you discuss are too important and deep to be swept along with the flow of live play.



+2

Exactly what I was thinking when watching the video. Way too much good and valuable information, you can´t explain that in a 2 minute hand.

Great Video! I have to admit, that I lost concentration in the last couple of minutes. But i´m sure I will watch it again and take some notes.

I realised that there are so many things that I don´t think about when sitting at the table and making decisions. It´s a shame Frown

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

I really enjoyed this vid, everything you said seemed to click and make sense. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

A lot of people might disagree with me but when you say "the rest will be 7 sweat sessions". I hope that by "sweat" you don't just mean 100% live play, I think some of the concepts you discuss are too important and deep to be swept along with the flow of live play.



Oops my bad, I meant the remainder of this season with "the rest". There will be 3 sweat videos of live play after this. The first one will be 2 tables so I have plenty of time to talk about hands and concepts/theory. The last 2 sessions will have a theme and will be very different from the sweat sessions you're used to.

The content for the last 4 parts in DCs next season is still open to anything. I have some ideas but I'll wait till I have more feedback on the first videos. Since my style is kinda unusual and probably interesting to watch for many, maybe people want more sweat sessions regardless for example.

Posted over 7 years ago

Dani2604

Avatar for Dani2604

22 posts
Joined 05/2008

Good job, Grindcore. Looking forward to your next vid.

Posted over 7 years ago

defens

Avatar for defens

22 posts
Joined 10/2009

Brilliant stuff, really looking forward to the rest of your series grindcore... Somebody above has mentioned that they love your videos ; where have you posted videos before?

Posted over 7 years ago

cantdance

Avatar for cantdance

294 posts
Joined 06/2008

Brilliant stuff, really looking forward to the rest of your series grindcore... Somebody mentioned that they love your videos ; where have you posted videos before?



Well, judging from the accent Wink and the contents it seems that Grindcore = EpicFoldGuy at PS+. Also "Thin Red Line" seems to be very similar to PS+'s "Red Line Rampage". The latter was the best NL 6max vid series I have ever seen so I'm really happy to see this one here (and hope it's not too similar to PS+'s one).

CD

Posted over 7 years ago

Edmuntus

Avatar for Edmuntus

81 posts
Joined 05/2008

KRANTZ

Avatar for KRANTZ

3149 posts
Joined 07/2007

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

where have you posted videos before?



Pokersavvy Plus

Also "Thin Red Line" seems to be very similar to PS+'s "Red Line Rampage". The latter was the best NL 6max vid series I have ever seen so I'm really happy to see this one here (and hope it's not too similar to PS+'s one).CD



The theory part is somewhat similar, but what do you expect when you make 2 theory videos on the same topic. I think they're about as different as I possibly could have made them though. The rest of this season will different/better/higher stakes that all the stuff I have on PS+ as I have more experience with video making now and I'm a much better player now then I was back then.

Posted over 7 years ago

madlex

Avatar for madlex

336 posts
Joined 12/2008

Content: A
Visual presentation: D

I really liked the video, but think more bullet points on the first couple of topics and short summaries for the stats related topics would have made it a lot easier to follow and understand. The combination of hearing+reading often vastly improves the learning experience imo.

Posted over 7 years ago

Roronoa

Avatar for Roronoa

7 posts
Joined 01/2008

brilliant... very interesting stuff

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

You don't have to play honest on the flop against players who second or tripple barrel a lot; as long as you don't play honest on the turn and/or river too.



Yeah you're right. The strategic goal you should have is to not fold much on turn/river. That's easily achieved by being fit/fold on the flop, but floating and bluffraising gets the job done aswell. It's just more risky/higher variance.

Vs 70% cbet stats on every street

IPoker Network $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 384276
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

MP: $695.00
CO: $402.00
BTN: $421.10
SB: $471.80
Hero (BB): $817.70
UTG: $910.80

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is BB with T Club K Diamond
4 folds, SB raises to $12, Hero calls $8

Flop: ($24.00) 6 Spade 8 Diamond 2 Heart (2 players)
SB bets $20.00, Hero calls $20

Turn: ($64.00) 4 Spade (2 players)
SB bets $56.00, Hero calls $56

River: ($176.00) 4 Club (2 players)
SB bets $152.00, Hero raises to $729.70, SB folds

Final Pot: $480.00
Hero wins $477.00
(Rake: $3.00)

Posted over 7 years ago

Sugar Nut

Avatar for Sugar Nut

842 posts
Joined 03/2008

Thanks for this video man. I've been thinking about a lot of the stuff you cover myself lately and came up with mostly similar concepts. You however have advanced me one step further. Thanks man.

After watching the video I played a session. This is the Graph

This is one of the hands from this session. Villain cbets a ton and barrels a lot of turns.

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players -

SB: $240.15
BB: $101.50
UTG: $111.90
MP: $121.75
CO: $161.50
Hero (BTN): $172.05

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with 9 Spade 8 Club
2 folds, CO raises to $3, Hero calls $3, SB calls $2.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($10.00) 6 Diamond Q Spade 7 Diamond (3 players)
SB checks, CO bets $5, Hero calls $5, SB folds

Turn: ($20.00) 7 Heart (2 players)
CO bets $11, Hero raises to $35, CO folds

Final Pot: $42.00
Hero mucks 9 Spade 8 Club
Hero wins $39.95
(Rake: $2.05)

I guess being somewhat deep here helps, because I can leverage stacks better this way.

Questions:

-Would you take a similar line 100BB eff?

-Would you consider the 7 pairing a good or a bad card for this move in general?

-What's your play when you actually hit your OESD?

- Do you ever ship river if called and checked to? If yes, on what cards?

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

-Would you take a similar line 100BB eff?
Yes, but preflop would be even more of a fold than it was now. 98o is not a hand you wanna be playing against someone that's gonna put the heat on you. The call is fine if villain is honest on the turn because you can float every flop.

-Would you consider the 7 pairing a good or a bad card for this move in general?
The best card.

-What's your play when you actually hit your OESD?
Depends on how aggro he is on the river, if he could come over the top with draws on the turn, and how bluffcatchy he is. Usually vs these players it's a call on the turn.

Posted over 7 years ago

Sugar Nut

Avatar for Sugar Nut

842 posts
Joined 03/2008

98o is not a hand you wanna be playing against someone that's gonna put the heat on you. The call is fine if villain is honest on the turn because you can float every flop.


Gotcha. I guess I was trying to get into some spots this session.

Posted over 7 years ago

mikenxzz

Avatar for mikenxzz

186 posts
Joined 05/2009

This is really great Grindcore, very informative.
One thing is I think you would be better off releasing shorter vids (1hour) as it is very hard to stay focused for this long with so much content.
Looking forward to the rest!

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

All future videos will be 1 hour max Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

iwinmorepots

Avatar for iwinmorepots

93 posts
Joined 09/2009

I can't believe how much sense a lot of this made sense with just talking. I think some hand-historys should have been shown in the video it would have been better but great first video.

Posted over 7 years ago

krumpy

Avatar for krumpy

171 posts
Joined 06/2009

All future videos will be 1 hour max Smile



Bummer Smile I was more than happy with the 1.5hrs. Really good content.

Posted over 7 years ago

Yeah... Buddy

Avatar for Yeah... Buddy

57 posts
Joined 12/2007

Just wanted to give you props Grindcore...

This is one of the best video's I have ever watched on DC. I have been looking forward to it for the last week or two and you really delivered. The content was amazing and I feel like you clearly elucidated some of the most essential and sometimes overlooked points in poker. THIS is how you play the game of poker.

I will be looking forward to the rest of your series and will be studying all of it very seriously over the coming months. As soon as I move up another level or two I will be pm'ing you for lessons Smile

Thanks again!

Posted over 7 years ago

evan

Avatar for evan

17 posts
Joined 06/2008

Time Link to 00:07:23

in order for you to comment on the micro to small stakes part of the graph, you really need to reduce it to the first X number of hands.

congrats on running good/playing good.

Posted over 7 years ago

poolsweeper

Avatar for poolsweeper

395 posts
Joined 12/2008

Thanks for this video man. I've been thinking about a lot of the stuff you cover myself lately and came up with mostly similar concepts. You however have advanced me one step further. Thanks man.



How funny I have been trying to do the same but have only really got to the first part of this thinking. This is a fantastic vid. Jumping over the hurdle of not being scared to take non-standard lines is really the key.

Thanks again.

PS

Posted over 7 years ago

Zuberi

Avatar for Zuberi

458 posts
Joined 06/2009

Grindcore , a question.

I really reconized myself in the 'feeling' player. What do you think is the best way to approach the game in another way and how do you feel about determining (on paper) the default opening/call/3b(bluff)(value) ranges. Obviously for the lower stakes up to lets say 200nl

Purely as a default obviously, where you can adjust accordingly with certain table dynamics/player types etc.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Grindcore , a question.

I really reconized myself in the 'feeling' player. What do you think is the best way to approach the game in another way and how do you feel about determining (on paper) the default opening/call/3b(bluff)(value) ranges. Obviously for the lower stakes up to lets say 200nl

Purely as a default obviously, where you can adjust accordingly with certain table dynamics/player types etc.



What do you mean by the best way to approach the game in another way? Just do whatever is most +EV Poke Tongue

I tried to stay away from what your standard game should be in this video. I only wanted to talk about how to adjust. There are tons of videos about how to play ABC out there, and many different styles work. By not really touching the specifics of the standard game, this video is now useful for pretty much anyone. All the concepts can be applied to both nitty and laggy games. I'll talk about my own standard game in the sweat videos though. I don't think there's a real way to figure out optimal preflop play on paper. The game is too complicated to do that. It's just something you get better at with more experience and from reviewing hands etc.

Posted over 7 years ago

DwelF

Avatar for DwelF

895 posts
Joined 10/2009

The first part of the 3bet bluffing ranges completly opened my eyes, after that i got very tired so gonna watch the rest now.

I really recognized myself in that Button spot you describred where you sorta wanna bluff 3bet a decent amount of the time, but I don't really have a range, I just sorta do it by 'feeling'. I'm definitly gonna try and focus on 3bet bluffing the Range just below my calling range now.

I'm just a little worried i'm gonna be 3bet bluffing K9o For example and then flopping a K.

So to my question:

- How do you go about your 3bet bluffing range, By definition its a bluff so you shouldn't be able to get much value, say you flop a K with K9 IP, Villain is standard regular. What would be your line? I Myself came up with just playing it as if its a bluff, so i would cbet and if he is 'honest' on the turn i might double barrel it allin (100bb), Basically I was thinking I should just give up on it as soon as i feel some Restraint from villain.

Was wondering what you think about this concept.

Btw its pretty nice to hear a dutch accent once in a while Poke Tongue

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Grindcore , a question.

I really reconized myself in the 'feeling' player. What do you think is the best way to approach the game in another way and how do you feel about determining (on paper) the default opening/call/3b(bluff)(value) ranges. Obviously for the lower stakes up to lets say 200nl

Purely as a default obviously, where you can adjust accordingly with certain table dynamics/player types etc.



Oh I get it now, my bad.

It's hard to know the default optimal 3b and callingranges as the games constantly change. But when you are playing vs an unknown, you're also an unknown to him, so his f3b is likely gonna be higher against your first 3b than against your later 3bets. So the very first 3b you make at a table should preferably be a bluff. After 3betting once you have less FE the 2nd time so the 2nd time your range should already be slightly different (unless you're trying to tilt him and you just wanna 3b him 3 times in a row as quick as possible or something).

You can still use your feeling on what your 3b frequency should be. But then come up with a 100% 3b and 100% fold range based on that feeling.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008


I'm just a little worried i'm gonna be 3bet bluffing K9o For example and then flopping a K.

So to my question:

- How do you go about your 3bet bluffing range, By definition its a bluff so you shouldn't be able to get much value, say you flop a K with K9 IP, Villain is standard regular. What would be your line? I Myself came up with just playing it as if its a bluff, so i would cbet and if he is 'honest' on the turn i might double barrel it allin (100bb), Basically I was thinking I should just give up on it as soon as i feel some Restraint from villain.

Was wondering what you think about this concept.

Btw its pretty nice to hear a dutch accent once in a while Poke Tongue



When you 3b bluff, your profit mostly comes from taking it down preflop. And you'll also rarely get called, mostly 4b/fold (if villain calls alot you should start 3betting depolarized, so K9o is a fold pre but KQo becomes a 3b). Since your profit mostly comes from the preflop folds, any money that you make postflop is kind of bonus money. So the more often you can win the pot postflop, the better. CO v BU 3b calling ranges are typically 88-JJ AQ KQs AJs or something. Imagine 3betting 56s. When you hit the flop with a 5 or a 6, you rarely have the best and, and if you do, villain has 2 overcards with 25% equity minimum. While if you 3b with A5o or K9o and you hit an ace or king, your opponent is mostly drawing close to dead. So you shouldn't be worried when you hit a king when you 3b K9o, you should be hoping to hit a king. When you 3b K9 and hit a king you win the pot much more often than when you 3b 56s and hit a 6.

Wether you can get stacks in for value or wether you should pot control depends on villain. If you're not comfortable playing the hand once your opponent didn't fold to your cbet, just check the flop for pot control. Just realize that if you check A or K high boards when you have top pair weak kicker, and you cbet with all your air and AK, you have only 1 hand that's cbetting for value and the rest is all bluffs. If your opponents pick up on this they can start check/calling 88 on Axx boards or checkraise bluffing etc. But this would require your opponent to pay attention to how you play and adjust/exploit, something almost nobody does, especially at the lower stakes. Something you can do on A or K high boards if your opponent is playing back at you is check back both top pair and air. This won't create an imbalance but makes it easier to potcontrol. When you 3b polarized you're usually bluffing MUCH more often than that you're value 3betting, so on average keeping the postflop pot small is not bad for you. But if your opponent is playing back at you, cbetting for thinner value becomes alot better again.

Also, if your opponent plays really good in 3b pots, maybe you should be 3betting him a bit less.

Kind of a ramble, I hope that answered your questions. I'll probably get in such spots in the sweat videos in the future where it'll be more clear.

Posted over 7 years ago

TheChosenOne

Avatar for TheChosenOne

94 posts
Joined 04/2008

Nice vid!

I understand that we want to depolarize our range out of the blinds versus a button opener, because he is very likely to defend by calling. But how do you approach villains on the button who besides defending by calling our 3bet, also are very capable of 4betting.

Let's say you have a hand like KQs. It's nice to 3b it out of the blinds and have him call, but it sucks that we risk getting 4bet out of our hand.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

If villain is both 4betting alot and calling alot, then either his callingrange is very weak and we can rape him postflop every time he calls, or he's 4b bluffing alot and we can 5b shove KQs. But there's nothing wrong with 3betting for value and folding to a 4b as long as he's calling with enough worse + folding a bunch aswell. If he's defending against your 3b with 20% of all starting hands and 4betting 6%, he's still calling 14% (if he's opening 50% of hands on the button that means he folds 60% calls 28% and 4bets 12%).

In general it's a very bad strategy to defend against 3bets by calling light if you're not slowplaying alot of premiums aswell for postflop balance. Either have a 4betting game and call tighter, or call wide and 4b alot less. Against a capable player that is.

Posted over 7 years ago

drsmooth

Avatar for drsmooth

739 posts
Joined 07/2008

great video, looks like this series could be the highlight of the season imo. Only shame is this is the last theory video since I love this theory intensive stuff. (Y)

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

My sweat videos will be much more theory heavy than you're used to.

Posted over 7 years ago

zugzwangg

Avatar for zugzwangg

45 posts
Joined 06/2009

Great great video. Insanely awesome content and very good explanations of the concepts.

To Grindcore: its not just boring to watch a hem popup for half hour, its useless! you should make a slide with the actual hand examples that you are talking about and you should also open up notepad to type in percentages etc. if you want to talk about fold eq calculations.

I am a teacher and there is a reason why we use the blackboard and not give speeches like obama Smile

to DC producers: I recommend grindcore for an excellent badge or something to make him make more vids. Awesome choice as a coach!

Posted over 7 years ago

mocky

Avatar for mocky

49 posts
Joined 11/2008

HoneyFishy

Avatar for HoneyFishy

44 posts
Joined 07/2008

Nice series, just had to renew my subscription because of this (and the comeback of "Real Life No Limit Grinder" of course)!

Posted over 7 years ago

ohjoy

Avatar for ohjoy

431 posts
Joined 07/2008

jonk

Avatar for jonk

356 posts
Joined 10/2008

Content: A
Visual presentation: D

I really liked the video, but think more bullet points on the first couple of topics and short summaries for the stats related topics would have made it a lot easier to follow and understand. The combination of hearing+reading often vastly improves the learning experience imo.



I think you learn more by taking notes as you listen. So I actually like the low visuals in this vid!

Posted over 7 years ago

jonk

Avatar for jonk

356 posts
Joined 10/2008

Grindcore, loved this video, it was very clear and to the point.

Question about your range construction though. Your "standard" game, is that something you think of away from the table? Like you make an opening chart of your standard game? And then you have a chart of adjustments based on each player type? Is that how you come up with your 3bet ranges? I've been one of those guys that does it on the fly, but have been thinking it would be better to construct ranges away from the table based on each player type... This video seems to reinforce that it is a good idea, but just wondering if that is what you meant to imply and actually do.

Thanks!

Posted over 7 years ago

HighPockets

Avatar for HighPockets

358 posts
Joined 06/2008

4 hours after I started watching this video and I'm still only half way through it. It may be one of the best poker videos that I've ever watched.

I actually like that it's long and there are very few bullet points on the presentation. It forces be to concentrate more and take good notes so I've probably learned more because of that.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Grindcore, loved this video, it was very clear and to the point.

Question about your range construction though. Your "standard" game, is that something you think of away from the table? Like you make an opening chart of your standard game? And then you have a chart of adjustments based on each player type? Is that how you come up with your 3bet ranges? I've been one of those guys that does it on the fly, but have been thinking it would be better to construct ranges away from the table based on each player type... This video seems to reinforce that it is a good idea, but just wondering if that is what you meant to imply and actually do.

Thanks!



The lower the stakes you play, the more likely you have leaks in your standard game. I feel mine is pretty good by now so I don't think about it anymore. But I remember thinking about wether to LAG/TAG/nit as default game etc when I was struggling at microstakes. Through experience but also just thinking about it I came to the conclusion a TAG game should be the default against unknowns. But noy many are actually capable of switching it up to LAG or nit at a particular table when multitabling.

But there are so many videos out there on how to play ABC tag. My strenght is going beyond that. It'd be kind of a waste of my time to make a video telling you to fold KJo UTG etc. Just watch any other microstakes series for that. I also tell alot of microstake players that ask me for coaching to go find someone cheaper to teach them the basics and come back to me once they have all the fundamentals down and are beating NL50 and ready to move up for the same reasons.

Posted over 7 years ago

jonk

Avatar for jonk

356 posts
Joined 10/2008

The lower the stakes you play, the more likely you have leaks in your standard game. I feel mine is pretty good by now so I don't think about it anymore. But I remember thinking about wether to LAG/TAG/nit as default game etc when I was struggling at microstakes. Through experience but also just thinking about it I came to the conclusion a TAG game should be the default against unknowns. But noy many are actually capable of switching it up to LAG or nit at a particular table when multitabling.

But there are so many videos out there on how to play ABC tag. My strenght is going beyond that. It'd be kind of a waste of my time to make a video telling you to fold KJo UTG etc. Just watch any other microstakes series for that. I also tell alot of microstake players that ask me for coaching to go find someone cheaper to teach them the basics and come back to me once they have all the fundamentals down and are beating NL50 and ready to move up for the same reasons.




Maybe I was a bit confusing about how I asked... I know the standard game should be TAG, but I don't have my ranges set in stone. I will adjust them based on game flow/reads, but do not have a clear idea what my ranges will be. Since I am playing by feel, I don't know what the top of my folding range is unless I think about it while I'm playing. Is this something I should think about away from the table and come up with a matrix like table (based on players) on what my general adjustments should be for my opening range and 3betting range?

FWIW, I have beaten 50NL over a smallish hand sample(but big for me, I don't get much volume in) and am now playing 100NL, but not beating the games like I did at lower stakes. (but even smaller sample size, so take it with a grain of salt i guess!)

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

If you have no idea what your opening ranges are it's probably a good idea to write them down. Just ask yourself for some standard spots what your ranges are. This is easier with pokerstove open in the hand chart thingy so you can just click hands and visualize it better that way. What I have in mind for the 3rd sweat video will probably be very helpful to you Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

jonk

Avatar for jonk

356 posts
Joined 10/2008

If you have no idea what your opening ranges are it's probably a good idea to write them down. Just ask yourself for some standard spots what your ranges are. This is easier with pokerstove open in the hand chart thingy so you can just click hands and visualize it better that way. What I have in mind for the 3rd sweat video will probably be very helpful to you Smile



Awesome, can't wait for it! (Literally can't wait, so hurry up and release it now Poke Tongue lol)

Posted over 7 years ago

improva

Avatar for improva

3916 posts
Joined 02/2008

If you guys for a second think about how your lines depend on board texture, position and the other player in the hand you will see that postflop stats not really that usefull unless the stats are extreme.

You can use postflop stats to get ideas for strategies that might work and to get a feel for how this player normally approaches poker.

That said there is a good chunk of regulars at ssnl and msnl who have huge leaks in their postflop game. Some will be reflected in their stats some not. The biggest leak regulars have is that they assume that other regulars think about poker just like they do.

So be careful out there!

Posted over 7 years ago

Eisflamme

Avatar for Eisflamme

2011 posts
Joined 08/2008

Time Link to 00:32:13

Is it true that we shouldn't 3-bet a hand which we don't want to get all-in with against a 4-bet? I think, this depends a lot on the 3-bet-calling and 4-bet range of our opponent. Even if an opponent 4-bets with a very strong hand, we could 3-bet him with a fairly wide depolarized range for value, when he calls a lot, so that we can valuetown him postflop.

This seems kinda thin against standard opponents, though. Thoughts?

Posted over 7 years ago

Eisflamme

Avatar for Eisflamme

2011 posts
Joined 08/2008

Ok, after having watched this video, I have to say: Very nice!!

Again, this seems to be a video which's exactly the thing I need right now. But I'm a bit careful with those statements now, as my previous exultations were unappropriate based on results and my skill-feeling right now.

Anyway. I searched for getting reads and using them and - all out of sudden - there is a video focusing on adjustment. DC seems to have a mindreader installed. Nice thing! Now, I know what I pay for ;P

Sorry for my missing enthusiasm btw. That's nothing to do with your vid but with my perceived learning effect from that video.

Edit:
Ok, and another question which occured to me in my post-noting session:
You say, we should set up a polarized 3-betting range with premium hands and bluff hands. You say, our bluffs should consist of the top of our range which we can't call to his raise (like K9s if we 3-betted KTs).

I've got a question concerning that:

What about 3-betting "pretty" hands, then? Don't you think, that would make sense? Obviously, the hands you mentioned (top of folding range) have more equity when hitting a pair. (54s is bad when hitting a 5 very often, a hitted K with K8s could be good, though; you even say, it's good most of the time, so that we should be glad to hit that K). But, hmm, I would rather 3-bet 87s than K9s anyway.

My idea behind this is: We 3-bet hands because of FE, so - like you said - every bonus money postflop is good bonus money. So, if we get villain to fold most of the time but hit a strong equity hand with no reverse implied odds like 87s with a draw, we can play it aggressively then.

When we 3-bet K8s, we will struggle with getting extra money or with losing a bit too much. You say, it's good most of the time, if we hit a K. But if there flows any kind of money, it will be our bad, as I feel. But we will call at least one bet or something, so we won't get bonus money but malus money.

Would love to hear a comment from you. Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Is it true that we shouldn't 3-bet a hand which we don't want to get all-in with against a 4-bet? I think, this depends a lot on the 3-bet-calling and 4-bet range of our opponent. Even if an opponent 4-bets with a very strong hand, we could 3-bet him with a fairly wide depolarized range for value, when he calls a lot, so that we can valuetown him postflop.

This seems kinda thin against standard opponents, though. Thoughts?



I described 2 kinds of 3betting, polarized and depolarized. Not 3betting for value if you can't 5b allin is only true for a polarized range, which you should only use against players that will mostly 4b/fold and only sometimes call. Against a player that calls alot and occasionally 4bets, ofcourse we can 3b-fold wider for value, and stop 3betting junk. But that's depolarized.

Posted over 7 years ago

DwelF

Avatar for DwelF

895 posts
Joined 10/2009

Hi,

Another question regarding the adjustments you talked over about preflop 3 betting.

I notice myself being hesitant in calling a QQ OOP for example if villain has some crazy high F3bet over a larger sample. Basically cause i feel that it brings along some obvious metagame problems.

What is your take on this?

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

But, hmm, I would rather 3-bet 87s than K9s anyway.

My idea behind this is: We 3-bet hands because of FE, so - like you said - every bonus money postflop is good bonus money. So, if we get villain to fold most of the time but hit a strong equity hand with no reverse implied odds like 87s with a draw, we can play it aggressively then.

When we 3-bet K8s, we will struggle with getting extra money or with losing a bit too much. You say, it's good most of the time, if we hit a K. But if there flows any kind of money, it will be our bad, as I feel. But we will call at least one bet or something, so we won't get bonus money but malus money.

Would love to hear a comment from you. Smile



This is a very common misconception in 100bb poker. The stack to pot ratio is simply so small that the value of big pairs is higher than the value of draws. 150+bbs deep or so this changes and 78s goes up in value, both for flatting and 3betting.

Wether you cbet K9s or 78s, when you miss thef lop you have the same FE on the cbet. Both hands make flushdraws, so the only benefit 78s has is that it makes straight draws aswell. You flop a pair more often than that you flop a straight draw, and K9s flops much better pairs. And on top of that, I don't think you profit alot more (if any) with 78s on K56r than K9s. Just because TPNK is a bit harder to play in a 3b pot than a draw to the nuts doesn't mean you should get lazy and play lower EV easier hands. If you wanna play easy, just fold pre.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Hi,

Another question regarding the adjustments you talked over about preflop 3 betting.

I notice myself being hesitant in calling a QQ OOP for example if villain has some crazy high F3bet over a larger sample. Basically cause i feel that it brings along some obvious metagame problems.

What is your take on this?



Why would you flat QQ from the blinds? Even against someone with a high f3b, surely you can stick it in if he comes over the top. And also when people have position on you, they call more than that they 4b/fold, so you should depolarize your range and not slowplay premiums.

In position it's different though. If villain has a crazy high f3b, you're not getting it in way ahead if he 4bets against his nit range, but by calling you let him cbet 70-80% of flops and catch additional money that way and you also give players behind you a good opportunity to squeeze (high f3b raiser + button caller, excellent spot to squeeze) so it's nice to be able to backraise there aswell.

And why are you worried about metagame? Do you think the 16 tabling tagfish with 75% f3b is gonna pay attention to what you do, think about it and come up with a counter strategy and exploit you like I advocate in this video? He doesn't even understand basic preflop play and you're worried about him doing something that only the best regs at your limits will do.

Also, if you're 3betting him like 20% or something (which you should be doing if he folds that much), even if you 5b shove TT+/AQ+ for value he can still 4b you with ATC and show a profit. So even with much wider than QQ in your valuerange you're still exploitable.

Posted over 7 years ago

DwelF

Avatar for DwelF

895 posts
Joined 10/2009

Why would you flat QQ from the blinds? Even against someone with a high f3b, surely you can stick it in if he comes over the top. And also when people have position on you, they call more than that they 4b/fold, so you should depolarize your range and not slowplay premiums.

In position it's different though. If villain has a crazy high f3b, you're not getting it in way ahead if he 4bets against his nit range, but by calling you let him cbet 70-80% of flops and catch additional money that way and you also give players behind you a good opportunity to squeeze (high f3b raiser + button caller, excellent spot to squeeze) so it's nice to be able to backraise there aswell.



Yeah i get that ty,
I geuss i was being overadjusting a little bit there.

In my head it sounded logical to adjust to a crazy high F3bet with just calling a QQ OOP even. But i do see and understand your point.

What i'm basically talking about is this theoretical extreme person who never adjusts and has a 90F3bet 16/14 , wouldn't our ideal line vs this theoretical person be to start moving our 3bet range to a range just below our calling range entirely, and add our premiums into our OOP calling range.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

But, hmm, I would rather 3-bet 87s than K9s anyway.



One last comment on this. Me telling you to 3b 78s and not K9s is me telling you what your standard game should be. But the concept I'm tyring to get across is that you should 3b with the top of your folding range, and of that range, the hands that play best in 3b pots to be specific. If in your opinion 78s plays better in a 3b pot than K9s, then you SHOULD be adding 78s to your 3betting range before K9s. I don't really wanna tell you how to play, I wanna tell you what to think about to adjust your play based on your opponents etc. You don't have to litteraly do everything I say in this video. Just take away the concepts you agree with, and apply them to your own game. That's what I did. I've disagreed with many many things I've seen in videos over the past year. Only when I thought "hey! that's brilliant" or whatever, have I used it for my own game. There are many winning styles possible. For my style, K9s is better than 78s. I'm winning with my style so that's what I'll teach, but maybe for your style 78s is better. I'm just showing the inner workings of my personal game so that people get a better understanding of how it's possible to win so much at non showdown.


You might find this interesting. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/high-stakes-pl-nl/simple-3-bet-scenario-1788/

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Yeah i get that ty,
I geuss i was being overadjusting a little bit there.

In my head it sounded logical to adjust to a crazy high F3bet with just calling a QQ OOP even. But i do see and understand your point.

What i'm basically talking about is this theoretical extreme person who never adjusts and has a 90F3bet 16/14 , wouldn't our ideal line vs this theoretical person be to start moving our 3bet range to a range just below our calling range entirely, and add our premiums into our OOP calling range.



Against a 90% f3b we should even 3b/fold hands like KQs and 77 just because he folds so incredibly much. In the video I gave an example of a guy that folds 100% to 3bets, even AA. We should 3b him 100%, even with hands that are normally a call. Also, vs a 16/14, if he's ok postflop, we can't call that many hands profitably as his preflop raising range is so strong. There's still merit in flatting 77 and KQs though, because if we litteraly 3b 100%, he might adjust and stop doing it, so we want to lower our 3betting frequency. So if KQs and A2o are equal in EV for 3betting, but KQs much better for flatting, by flatting the KQs, despite a 3b having a higher immediate EV, we can keep our 3b% down this way and as a result the EV of our entire preflop range combined goes up

Posted over 7 years ago

Eisflamme

Avatar for Eisflamme

2011 posts
Joined 08/2008

Wow, thanks. You're investing a lot of energy into answering the questions. And you do it in a very logical and sobering way. I want to say "thanks" for that first of all, as this effort alone motivates me a lot. Smile

I think, I understand now, why you recommend K9s rather than 87s. It's not the playability you focus on but you have clarified that pairs are more important than draws in a 3-betted pot when playing for 100 BB. And that's been a great leak of mine, so thanks.

The question of playability is relative, I think. I thought, 87s would be so nice to play because we don't have to ask ourselves whether TP is good or not and we can just wait for a draw. But as this can be good value with hands like K9s, it's actually not a minus but a plus! And I've missed that. Indeed, I think, I can use this value quite often, so I'll try that out at least.

Great that you suggest that I should just take out the concepts. I'll do that for sure and I've learnt a whole lot. To be honest, you've solved some of my most burning questions. I'll be the adjustion machine from now one, that's the big goal!

Posted over 7 years ago

jumpoff

Avatar for jumpoff

12 posts
Joined 09/2008

great stuff. especially liked the bit about honest and dishonest villians, should be really helpful. one of the few vids im gonna watch again.

i say that as a plo only player.

thanks a lot Grindcore.

Posted over 7 years ago

ohjoy

Avatar for ohjoy

431 posts
Joined 07/2008

the intro is racist, because bart is a ginger, not a blonde. and he's skinny. he doesn't have muscles, just skin and bone.

Posted over 7 years ago

Belgariad

Avatar for Belgariad

391 posts
Joined 03/2008

First of all, GREAT vid!
As said by others, a few real screenshots of the popup hud when you give examples of different plays would be nice but what the hell. The Content is A+ anyway.

I have a question about the 3bet part though. I have only watched the vid once yet so sorry if you said something about it in the vid but where do you get good numbers for 3betbluffing? You mentioned some numbers but i feel like im doing a guessing game since i dont really know how f3b% should change my 3betbluffing range.
Have you just sat down and did the math to figure it out?
This would surely be possible but its too muc ground to cover for me now so maybe there is vids/threads adressing this somewhere?

Anyhow, Great vid, i cannot wait for the next one!

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

I indeed never said how much you should 3b exactly. I only told when to 3b more often and when to 3b less often, and how to expand on (or narrow) your range for doing so. I really wanted to stay away from teaching a certain style in a theory video because many styles work. I wanna teach how to make adjustments to your personal style against other players at the table. Adjusting is the limiting factor that holds 95% of SSNL regs back, and even alot at midstakes.

In my sweat videos I'll talk about my own standard game and how I personally play so I'm not gonna write a long reply about my personal ranges in every spot here. Just wait for the rest of the series Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

Belgariad

Avatar for Belgariad

391 posts
Joined 03/2008

But we cant wait. Just release them all today and we will all be happier :-D

No but seriously. That is solid advice you give and i wouldn't really want a starting hand chart for 3betbluffing but would like some more on the subject. I will search the forums and see what i can find and sit here waiting for next episode. :-)

Posted over 7 years ago

pr0wler

Avatar for pr0wler

84 posts
Joined 05/2008

This guy's voice reminds me Patrik Antonius lol. That being said, I thought the video was very interesting and will probably improve my game immensely. Looking forward to the next episode in the series.

Posted over 7 years ago

shades

Avatar for shades

848 posts
Joined 06/2008

Damn that was good ! It takes awhile to watch a video like this as i need time to pause , reflect and take notes , well worth it tho. Awesome video Grindcore cant wait for the next.

Posted over 7 years ago

tdoomx

Avatar for tdoomx

24 posts
Joined 08/2008

Damn, this video is too good. Please remove this from the site before it gets out.

Posted over 7 years ago

lewis

Avatar for lewis

6 posts
Joined 10/2009

Probably the best video I've watched so far.

Thanks - I think you've fixed many leaks in just 90 minutes.

Posted over 7 years ago

ohjoy

Avatar for ohjoy

431 posts
Joined 07/2008

more off-topic metagame:

how can you tell if grindcore has been running well?
his blue line is going up

Posted over 7 years ago

Belgariad

Avatar for Belgariad

391 posts
Joined 03/2008

more off-topic metagame:

how can you tell if grindcore has been running well?
his blue line is going up



This is really interesting. This should actually be the case. Have you noticed any corollations between the lines and your running hot/bad.

One more thin, In my view i think that there is less variance if you are really good at winning with the red line since the resolution of that line is smaller. Is that also the case?

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

This is really interesting. This should actually be the case. Have you noticed any corollations between the lines and your running hot/bad.

One more thin, In my view i think that there is less variance if you are really good at winning with the red line since the resolution of that line is smaller. Is that also the case?



Just like any other person, if I'm running over all-in EV this is good for my blue line. And when I'm carddead it's bad for my red line. This is true for anyone but it's better visible in my graph.

My style is extremely high variance because my style plays a larger average potsize.

My July at half 2/4 half 3/6.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9430/julye.png

Posted over 7 years ago

improva

Avatar for improva

3916 posts
Joined 02/2008

Just like any other person, if I'm running over all-in EV this is good for my blue line. And when I'm carddead it's bad for my red line. This is true for anyone but it's better visible in my graph.

My style is extremely high variance because my style plays a larger average potsize.

My July at half 2/4 half 3/6.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9430/julye.png




Did anybody mention that it takes balls? Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

A-LX

Avatar for A-LX

588 posts
Joined 09/2009

so for the past couple of days i've been messing around with some of the concepts explained in this video and it's really paying off. Especially the part about 3bet ranges has helped me a lot cause like many, my 3bet bluffs were mostly by feel. After watching this vid, I started determining some possible 3bet ranges in pokerstove and during play adjusted those to table dynamics and it made me much more comfortable in my 3bet game, so thanks for that.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Did anybody mention that it takes balls? Smile



IPoker Network $1000.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 393769
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $1838.00
MP: $985.00
Hero (CO): $1148.00
BTN: $2504.00
SB: $1417.00
BB: $657.75

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is CO with A Spade K Heart
UTG raises to $30, MP calls $30, Hero calls $30, 2 folds, BB calls $20

Flop: ($125.00) T Diamond 5 Diamond T Spade (4 players)
BB bets $125.00, UTG calls $125, MP raises to $325, Hero raises to $1118, BB folds, UTG folds, MP folds

Final Pot: $1025.00
Hero wins $1022.00
(Rake: $3.00)

Grin

Posted over 7 years ago

Hielko

Avatar for Hielko

4408 posts
Joined 07/2008

IPoker Network $1000.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 393769
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $1838.00
MP: $985.00
Hero (CO): $1148.00
BTN: $2504.00
SB: $1417.00
BB: $657.75

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is CO with A Spade K Heart
UTG raises to $30, MP calls $30, Hero calls $30, 2 folds, BB calls $20

Flop: ($125.00) T Diamond 5 Diamond T Spade (4 players)
BB bets $125.00, UTG calls $125, MP raises to $325, Hero raises to $1118, BB folds, UTG folds, MP folds

Final Pot: $1025.00
Hero wins $1022.00
(Rake: $3.00)

Grin


You must secretly be Swedish Wink

Posted over 7 years ago

improva

Avatar for improva

3916 posts
Joined 02/2008

Crackmonkey

Avatar for Crackmonkey

599 posts
Joined 06/2009

IPoker Network $1000.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 393769
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $1838.00
MP: $985.00
Hero (CO): $1148.00
BTN: $2504.00
SB: $1417.00
BB: $657.75

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is CO with A Spade K Heart
UTG raises to $30, MP calls $30, Hero calls $30, 2 folds, BB calls $20

Flop: ($125.00) T Diamond 5 Diamond T Spade (4 players)
BB bets $125.00, UTG calls $125, MP raises to $325, Hero raises to $1118, BB folds, UTG folds, MP folds

Final Pot: $1025.00
Hero wins $1022.00
(Rake: $3.00)

Grin



So what's the analysis when you make this sort of play? Do you assume that the other players would never put you on a bluff and need to have AT or 55 to call your shove? Are you expecting to fold out T9 - KT type hands when you make this play, or do you somehow have reads that nobody really has anything too strong?

I would never think to make a play like this, so it's hard for me to wrap my mind around the thought process.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

UTG and MP are regs. BB was a 85 vpip fish that potbet 100% of the time on every street on any board into any field with any holding (yes, it was weekend). So I flat pre to keep him in. He donks flop as expected, UTG calls so he has something but is pretty wide, now MP raises. If MP had a T or 55 he would never raise because he can just call and let the fish pot the turn. But it is a pretty good bluffspot for him because there's a bunch of dead money. So he has air or a draw mostly, and AK beats/flips vs those. UTG is very unlikely to have Tx because he's UTG, and as the preflop overcaller I'm the most likely to have Tx (aside from the fish). I also have blockers to AA/KK, which he won't fold if he has them. And If I get called by QQ or something I'll still have ~25% equity with my overs. All in all, it's incredibly hard for UTG to call my jam here and I'll have some equity when called, so it's a really good semibluffing spot.

Posted over 7 years ago

chinz

Avatar for chinz

65 posts
Joined 02/2009

I have only watched something like 15 minutes so far, but you mention the same thing that led to my nonsd skyrocketin (well, from losing a lot to just above breakeven) and almost doubling my winrate.

Especially if villain is playing aggressively postflop, play VERY fit and fold (or start bluffraising) on the flops. Even if you know you have something like 60% equity against villain's cbetting range, folding might be the best choice, since it's hard to get to showdown.

Earlier on my flop philosophy in HU pots was pretty much "I has a pear, I click call" with almost any pair on any flop. While it's probably true that my pair has great equity against their cbetting range, it doesn't necessarily mean I should call. This led to my nonshowdowns going down a lot, since I was folding a lot (enough to make peeling the flop -ev) on the later streets.

Of course if villain is playing very fit and fold, there's no reason to fold these mediocre hands, but when playing again borderline maniacs (the winning kind of those), folding something like weak 2nd pair on a drawy board isn't that awful.

Turning bluffcatchers into bluffs is OK too, of course. Against some players it's definitely better to check/raise bottom pair than check-call. It gives us that nice little extra equity when called, and whenever we have the best hand we're probably winning the pot right away (and not getting bluffed off it on later streets). We're also getting some better hands to fold, nothing is more annoying than calling with 88 on board with two overs just to lose against 99, or something like that.

Any opinions on that?

Posted over 7 years ago

Crackmonkey

Avatar for Crackmonkey

599 posts
Joined 06/2009

UTG and MP are regs. BB was a 85 vpip fish that potbet 100% of the time on every street on any board into any field with any holding (yes, it was weekend). So I flat pre to keep him in. He donks flop as expected, UTG calls so he has something but is pretty wide, now MP raises. If MP had a T or 55 he would never raise because he can just call and let the fish pot the turn. But it is a pretty good bluffspot for him because there's a bunch of dead money. So he has air or a draw mostly, and AK beats/flips vs those. UTG is very unlikely to have Tx because he's UTG, and as the preflop overcaller I'm the most likely to have Tx (aside from the fish). I also have blockers to AA/KK, which he won't fold if he has them. And If I get called by QQ or something I'll still have ~25% equity with my overs. All in all, it's incredibly hard for UTG to call my jam here and I'll have some equity when called, so it's a really good semibluffing spot.



Ok that makes a lot of sense, especially given the maniac BB.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Playing 100% fit or fold might show a profit vs the player, but is likely not the most profitable. Sometimes it's OK to fight fire with fire. Depends on the player/spot ofcourse.

If you can't bluffcatch profitably and you have a bluffcatcher, then don't bluffcatch. That means either folding or turning it into a bluff. Don't do it with pocketpairs though as they only have 2 outs when called. A 5 outer is much better, preferably with some backdoor draws aswell. But those hands can quite often actually just call the bet aswell.

Posted over 7 years ago

Belgariad

Avatar for Belgariad

391 posts
Joined 03/2008

You must secretly be Swedish Wink



Why swedish?

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

You must secretly be Swedish Wink



I drank from the water when I visited Norway.

Posted over 7 years ago

Chimeni

Avatar for Chimeni

93 posts
Joined 04/2009

Insightful and usefull info...thanks!

Posted over 7 years ago

Bake

Avatar for Bake

8 posts
Joined 02/2009

Very good video, thanks a lot! Looking forward to the next episode.

Posted over 7 years ago

Harrythedog

Avatar for Harrythedog

6 posts
Joined 09/2009

Like everyone else I'm hugely impressed. This is a fine video with enormous value.

It is very dense and what I did was download it on to my ipod and I listen to it in chunks and I can relisten to difficult parts and make notes.

The vid actually works very well as a podcast so for all those who found it long...get it on your ipod and work at it in sessions.

Very much looking forward to next episodes.

Posted over 7 years ago

janman74

Avatar for janman74

6 posts
Joined 01/2009

Who is this guy??????????????????????????
My eyes are open, I figured out which stats are the to look at, and my graph is going straight up after watching this ONE video!!!
I've been member of these sites (like DC) for 3 years, and never had success like that. I'm extracting maximum from now on!!! May be move to small stakes (from $50NL).

Grindcore, we need you here! 6 stars!

Posted over 7 years ago

Tony39

Avatar for Tony39

9 posts
Joined 03/2008

Really, really excellent stuff, truly impressed with the content. Great examples and discussion of concepts - already looking forward to the next vids in the series.

Posted over 7 years ago

iwinmorepots

Avatar for iwinmorepots

93 posts
Joined 09/2009

Wheres episode 2? I thought it was coming on sunday!!! Frown

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Poemmel

Avatar for Poemmel

1025 posts
Joined 03/2009

awesome!
one of the best videos I've ever seen (and I've seen a lot ^^)!
keep it goin!

Posted over 7 years ago

Captain_V.

Avatar for Captain_V.

532 posts
Joined 08/2008

hey grindcore. great stuff especially because it made me thinking of my imo oo weak tight game sometimes!

i have a question about one concept you talked about at about 1:05-1:20. its about playing oop from the blinds on a KT2rb kind of board and villain checks it back and we can conclude that he most likely has a T, a weak pair like 77 etc. but almost never air since he cbets it and almost never a strong king loke kj+, AK , a set of T or QJ as a good draw.

So you said when we bluff the turn we should also bluff the river and make it rather big on the turn and smaller on the river to make it look like a valuebet against his facup bluffcatcher.

then a few minutes later we turn around and are in the cutoff in the same situation and you suggest checking back air to strengten our cbet range and also to make a delayed cbet profitable when checked to on the turn.

--> this two concepts conflict in my eyes in someway. when we play against a decent player he might view our actual check back with air as exactly a secondpair hand just like we viewed it when we were in the blinds and he checked back the flop. so he might go fir a bet turn / bet river line aswell and we cannot compete to this line with checked back air?

so your idea was that we check back air against players who won´t bet turn bet river? or is there a another back up plan when we get donked into on the turn and river?

I also feel like that our line could be easily exploitable by villain checking back AK on that board and downcalling turn and river?

thx in advance!!!

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

hey grindcore. great stuff especially because it made me thinking of my imo oo weak tight game sometimes!

i have a question about one concept you talked about at about 1:05-1:20. its about playing oop from the blinds on a KT2rb kind of board and villain checks it back and we can conclude that he most likely has a T, a weak pair like 77 etc. but almost never air since he cbets it and almost never a strong king loke kj+, AK , a set of T or QJ as a good draw.

So you said when we bluff the turn we should also bluff the river and make it rather big on the turn and smaller on the river to make it look like a valuebet against his facup bluffcatcher.

then a few minutes later we turn around and are in the cutoff in the same situation and you suggest checking back air to strengten our cbet range and also to make a delayed cbet profitable when checked to on the turn.

--> this two concepts conflict in my eyes in someway. when we play against a decent player he might view our actual check back with air as exactly a secondpair hand just like we viewed it when we were in the blinds and he checked back the flop. so he might go fir a bet turn / bet river line aswell and we cannot compete to this line with checked back air?

so your idea was that we check back air against players who won´t bet turn bet river? or is there a another back up plan when we get donked into on the turn and river?

I also feel like that our line could be easily exploitable by villain checking back AK on that board and downcalling turn and river?

thx in advance!!!




Most people don't bluff you much if you check back the flop. There are few better hands in their preflop range than Tx on that board so they have a narrow valuerange. Most hands that they bet on the turn wouldn't have folded to your cbet anyway. Also, if our opponent is getting out of line with the bluffs when we check back flop, he's actually doing what we want when we check back 2nd pair as we have now succesfully checked to induce bluffs. And if he's getting really out of line you can start checking back top pairs aswell etc, or check flop raise turn with draws or whatever.

If you only check back 2nd pair vs good players your checking range on those boards is face up and he can play perfect, essentially making it the lowest possible EV line to take. By checking air you allow him to make mistakes again.

Posted over 7 years ago

Jackson Kings

Avatar for Jackson Kings

51 posts
Joined 06/2008

FelixLeit3r

Avatar for FelixLeit3r

3 posts
Joined 11/2009

I too really enjoyed / benefited from Episode One. Nice work! ...more please!

& for Dutch DC-ers: Knaap gedaan.

Posted over 7 years ago

dauv

Avatar for dauv

135 posts
Joined 06/2008

Loved the video & I'm really looking forward to the future episodes.

But I was wondering: How do I get my popup HUD to look like yours? There is alot of the stats I don't have at all, tried to edit my popup HUD but doesn't really seem to work.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

It's the default unedited HEM popup. Well, the areas I blacked out would be stats obviously.

Posted over 7 years ago

Ulkis

Avatar for Ulkis

671 posts
Joined 10/2007

Top marks! This was the 1st video for a long long time that warranted note-taking almost word for word. Preflop section was sort of cliff-notes for some Balugawhale videos and Redjoker's 3bet video at Leggo, but postflop section was simply stunning.

Has Grindcore been outed either here or at 2+2?

Look forward to the future videos and some ghost stuff (if possible).

I guess we would never fold the top of our range to Grindcore, right?

Posted over 7 years ago

ohjoy

Avatar for ohjoy

431 posts
Joined 07/2008

I guess we would never fold the top of our range to Grindcore, right?


We never fold vs. Grindcore. We float his raises OOP with pair + gutshot and checkraise all-in on a variety of turns in 3bet pots with 300 BB effective stacks.

Of course, the one time you get in this spot he has a set, but f him, it was +EV.

Posted over 7 years ago

MattSLY

Avatar for MattSLY

1001 posts
Joined 11/2008

Time Link to 00:18:10

If we have 3 weak tight players left to act behind us couldn't we still play A8o since we will be bluffing them out post flop just like if we had a "pretty" hand? IOW don't our cards matter less against these players so A8o =75s for the most part? (Your previous point about not playing 57s against calling stations rings true however since 75s will lose at showdown much more often than A8o.)

Posted over 7 years ago

Ulkis

Avatar for Ulkis

671 posts
Joined 10/2007

I'll be damned if I don't see some Slowhabit's ideas fleshed out in the postflop section with some good examples. I'll be damned if I don't start to see a theme developing postflop, my thinking is still thin and hazy but it's getting there, lol...

2nd part is due today, right? Please, don't be late.

Posted over 7 years ago

MattSLY

Avatar for MattSLY

1001 posts
Joined 11/2008

Grindcore, could you give us some examples of reliable sample sizes for stats such as WTSD, WWSF, fold to cbet/turn cbet, river AFq etc. I think its relevant because a large part of your presentation focuses around the use of stats. And to be able to properly use stats we need to know how reliable a given stat is based on sample size.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

If we have 3 weak tight players left to act behind us couldn't we still play A8o since we will be bluffing them out post flop just like if we had a "pretty" hand? IOW don't our cards matter less against these players so A8o =75s for the most part? (Your previous point about not playing 57s against calling stations rings true however since 75s will lose at showdown much more often than A8o.)



A8o goes down in value vs weak tight players, 75s goes up. That doesn't mean 75s is better than A8o. If a 1 dollar bill would be worth $5 and a 50 bill 20, the 50 bill is still worth more. Personally I prefer 75s over A8o quite a bit vs weaktight players since it's bluffs will on average have higher equity, and you beat weak tights by bluffing, not valuebetting.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Grindcore, could you give us some examples of reliable sample sizes for stats such as WTSD, WWSF, fold to cbet/turn cbet, river AFq etc. I think its relevant because a large part of your presentation focuses around the use of stats. And to be able to properly use stats we need to know how reliable a given stat is based on sample size.



They're never fully reliable as your opponent could be playing different because of board texture/reads on you/brainfart/distraction/whatever. Use your best judgement. Read up on Bayesian probability if you want a more mathematical approach.

Posted over 7 years ago

ken aces

Avatar for ken aces

242 posts
Joined 03/2008

nice vid

make them as long as you like i have a pause button Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

villalobos

Avatar for villalobos

6 posts
Joined 12/2009

Awesome vid!!
1:05-1:20. its about playing oop on K102r where villain checks back flop with what most likely is a mid pair type of hand. Do you think its any merit in overbetting turn so we have more FE on a river bet?

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Awesome vid!!
1:05-1:20. its about playing oop on K102r where villain checks back flop with what most likely is a mid pair type of hand. Do you think its any merit in overbetting turn so we have more FE on a river bet?



Experiment with it. In a vacuum with no history it's probably a highly +EV bluffing line as the only thing that will call you down is top set. It's very hard to balance though because you rep super narrow. If you do it at any sort of high frequency villain can gain a big edge on you by trapping.

My default assumption about unknowns is that they fold bluffcatchers to river overbets ~100%. What they do on the turn... I don't know for sure. You say you want to overbet turn to have more FE on the river, but I think it might have the opposite effect. When you overbet the turn, I imagine alot of people already fold their marginal hands, so on the river you're facing a pretty strong range. Intuitively I'd say normal turnbet overbet river is a better bluff line. Maybe overbet overbet is even better in a vacuum.

Posted over 7 years ago

bluepokerman

Avatar for bluepokerman

25 posts
Joined 07/2008

One the best ive seen many thanks for this, some great concepts and food for thought. Looking forward to more of the same. Not sure if you can can get into some spots in multiway pots as pfr I seem to struggle here and also not seen much on defining 3b ranges v's various opponents. Thanks this vid has helped me a lot.

~Scotty

Posted over 7 years ago

McTraher

Avatar for McTraher

12 posts
Joined 11/2009

Bart-Jan? Seems like the same video series like "Red line rampage" on PokerSavvy by EpicFoldGuy...

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

McTraher

Avatar for McTraher

12 posts
Joined 11/2009

Excited to see more videos from you. "Elements of winning player" (on Savvy) is one of the best coaching vid's I've saw. Great hand reading!

Posted over 7 years ago

Ulkis

Avatar for Ulkis

671 posts
Joined 10/2007

straight from the video, preflop aggressor checks behind on the flop. I bet 2 streets and he pops it unexpectedly on the river. Was this hand a good application of the concept? Is river a fold now?

Villain is 20/17/3, cbet% 69, wtsd 23, very typical tag player for these stakes.

Full Tilt Poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 429102
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $103.20
UTG: $20.00
CO: $111.45
BTN: $104.55
SB: $106.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with A Diamond Q Club
1 fold, CO raises to $3, 2 folds, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6.50) J Heart 2 Spade A Heart (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($6.50) 9 Spade (2 players)
Hero bets $6, CO calls $6

River: ($18.50) Q Spade (2 players)
Hero bets $12, CO raises to $38, Hero requests TIME, Hero?

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

When he checks back the flop he has a 2nd pair type hand most often, and sometimes a weak top pair. Turn betsize is good because he's always calling. On the river he's very unlikely to be bluffraising because he always has showdown value and nobody bluffs with that at SSNL. So what hands can he be valueraising that check back the flop? Jx spades, JQ, QQ, maybe backdoored nutflushes with a weak kicker. Just a stoving problem. If he's raising all his QJ, you have an easy call, you're a favorite in fact. But not everyone raises QJ on the river here because it's a hard call for you to make with naked Ax, and that's the only hand he beats. If he doesn't raise QJ it's a clear fold. I don't think a 20 vpip weaktight player raises QJ here, so I fold.

Posted over 7 years ago

Ulkis

Avatar for Ulkis

671 posts
Joined 10/2007

When he checks back the flop he has a 2nd pair type hand most often, and sometimes a weak top pair. Turn betsize is good because he's always calling. On the river he's very unlikely to be bluffraising because he always has showdown value and nobody bluffs with that at SSNL. So what hands can he be valueraising that check back the flop? Jx spades, JQ, QQ, maybe backdoored nutflushes with a weak kicker. Just a stoving problem. If he's raising all his QJ, you have an easy call, you're a favorite in fact. But not everyone raises QJ on the river here because it's a hard call for you to make with naked Ax, and that's the only hand he beats. If he doesn't raise QJ it's a clear fold. I don't think a 20 vpip weaktight player raises QJ here, so I fold.



thanks for the answer, I did fold. Yep, Tri says exactly the same thing about the river ie it is never a bluff at these stakes (Tri's NL Workbook). Cool concept and the 3rd time it came up for me since I studied it from your video. 2 other times I got folds on the turn which was also unexpected, as per your video (we expect them to call turn fold river).

Excellent video, have to say again, I listen to it on my ipod in bed before I go to sleep, must know it by heart by now, so sad...

I hope we'll see another theory/powerpoint video from you in the future.

Posted over 7 years ago

palacedefender

Avatar for palacedefender

52 posts
Joined 12/2009

Great video...I have question at min 44

Against a player who has a high fold to cbet percentage....he said u shd cbet for value with top pair type hands or air...but on a board like q102 rainbow annd u have JJ u shd check behind for pot conrtol....

I dont get it...can somebody explain...thx

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

A fit/fold tight player won't call us with 99 or air. When he calls our cbet we're behind. Sure, he'll call AT aswell, but when he calls we're no longer a favorite vs his range. Since there are no draws we need to protect against, it's better to check and induce bluffs, or valuebet a later street when we look weaker.

Posted over 7 years ago

Donktard

Avatar for Donktard

142 posts
Joined 10/2007

The video is way too long and I have watched it twice already but lose interest at various stages of the video. Producers - pls make theory videos <45mins or in two parts.

I agree that there were some good concepts discussed.

Posted over 7 years ago

PJ0548

Avatar for PJ0548

7 posts
Joined 09/2008

nice video, maybe a bit long
keep up the good work!

Posted over 7 years ago

palacedefender

Avatar for palacedefender

52 posts
Joined 12/2009

ah...ok...i understand now...thank you

Posted over 7 years ago

tommeh2k

Avatar for tommeh2k

4 posts
Joined 12/2008

I dont understand 1 thing

first you were talking about in position you want to 3bet polarized and oop depolarized (in general), and later you talk about a scenario where the CO opens and you call KTs on the button and 3bet K9s... but why will you 3bet K9s... ? CO will allways 4b or fold (in general..) why 3bet K9s 100% of the time ? sometimes you just dont want to 3bet it because you have to be aware of your image(rekening houden met) so i'd rahter 3bet it sometimes and sometimes not... same goes for lets say T8s or something

and yea i do get that K9s is better postflop if called then T8s Poke Tongue


and i dont understand WHY(!) we would 3bet top x% of our foldingrange..

Posted over 7 years ago

tommeh2k

Avatar for tommeh2k

4 posts
Joined 12/2008

oh and another thing Poke Tongue (sorry for that)

if you open CO with f.e. AK and you flop KT2 and you cbet and 'the floater' calls on the bttn. you want a 100% check there with AK? you said he has KQ which he will bet on turn himself if you check to him, or he has air which will bet, but i think if you check you will also miss a lot of value against TJ QJ AT etc where he can talk himself in a call if you 2nd barrel and checks behind if you check.. so how can we combine this on a good way ? i dont think you want to check AK 100% of the time there, right ?

and for example we have AK on CO and the 'floater' (dishonest man) calls bttn again and we flop QTx... is this a good double barrel board since we have a lot of outs ? because in general it isn't a good 2nd barrel board Poke Tongue

thx already ^^

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

I dont understand 1 thing

first you were talking about in position you want to 3bet polarized and oop depolarized (in general), and later you talk about a scenario where the CO opens and you call KTs on the button and 3bet K9s... but why will you 3bet K9s... ? CO will allways 4b or fold (in general..) why 3bet K9s 100% of the time ? sometimes you just dont want to 3bet it because you have to be aware of your image(rekening houden met) so i'd rahter 3bet it sometimes and sometimes not... same goes for lets say T8s or something

and yea i do get that K9s is better postflop if called then T8s Poke Tongue


and i dont understand WHY(!) we would 3bet top x% of our foldingrange..



If your image is bad, then you adjust your 3betting range accordingly. You don't have a fixed strategy for every opponent. It's dynamic and can change from hand to hand. If your image is so bad that your opponent will fold less often, maybe we should change to a depolarized 3betting range in position, or widen our valuerange that we'll also 5b, and also lower our bluffing frequency. Lets say we normally 3b JJ+/AK on the button vs CO for value and bluff with the top 10% of our folding range, and we get a bad image as a result of cards dealt. Now we can start 3betting 99+/AQ+ for value and only bluff the top 5% of our folding range or something. Or even stop 3b bluffing at all and start 3/5betting 22+/AJ+/KQ. Or 3/5b 99+/AQ+ and 3b/fold KT-KQ A9-AJ QJ or something and only flat small pairs and suited connecters/aces.

Still, if you can flat KTs but not K9s, and you wanna use a polarized 3betting strategy, K9s is a 100% hand even with the bad image. If we're 3b bluffing only the top 1% of our folding range and on top of that have valuehands, K9s is in the 1% and villain is making very -EV 4b bluffs against our range, so 3b/folding K9s is perfectly fine. Or maybe we should even 3b bluff 0% and only 3/5b with a good range if we're anticipating a 4b bluff.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

oh and another thing Poke Tongue (sorry for that)

if you open CO with f.e. AK and you flop KT2 and you cbet and 'the floater' calls on the bttn. you want a 100% check there with AK? you said he has KQ which he will bet on turn himself if you check to him, or he has air which will bet, but i think if you check you will also miss a lot of value against TJ QJ AT etc where he can talk himself in a call if you 2nd barrel and checks behind if you check.. so how can we combine this on a good way ? i dont think you want to check AK 100% of the time there, right ?

and for example we have AK on CO and the 'floater' (dishonest man) calls bttn again and we flop QTx... is this a good double barrel board since we have a lot of outs ? because in general it isn't a good 2nd barrel board Poke Tongue

thx already ^^



If the floater as JT on KT2r he won't call 3 barrels. He might fold turn, he might call so lets say we get 1.5 streets of value on average. If we don't bet turn and he checks back, we can now still valuebet the river where he'll probably call at a similar frequency as he would on the turn, so we didn't miss any value. Valuebetting the turn against floaters because you don't wanna miss out on value against a small part of his range is a very common leak.

Posted over 7 years ago

tommeh2k

Avatar for tommeh2k

4 posts
Joined 12/2008

ok it's sounds clear to me i think

so basicly we want to 3bet the top10% of our foldingrange so our 3bet keeps at 15% and wont be random like if you do it on 'feel' + we still have agood hand if called..

if no; i dont understand what our foldingrange has to do with our 3betting ;p

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

ok it's sounds clear to me i think

so basicly we want to 3bet the top10% of our foldingrange so our 3bet keeps at 15% and wont be random like if you do it on 'feel' + we still have agood hand if called..

if no; i dont understand what our foldingrange has to do with our 3betting ;p



Lets say we get dealt either 72s or K9s, and we wanna 3b 50% of the time and our opponent doesn't know we get dealt only those 2 hands. Why would you ever 3b a 72o? For every 72o you 3b you have to fold a K9s or you'll go over the 50%.

In a BU v CO scenario we probably don't wanna 3b 50%, but a lower frequency. Still, the same logic behind it applies. The better the hand, the higher the EV of the 3b. So the top of our folding range is better to 3b bluff than the bottom. Ofcourse the bottom of our callingrange is even better to 3b bluff than the top of our folding range in a vacuum, but only by a small margin because villain mostly 4b/folds. But this will increase our 3b% so now the top of our folding range is no longer +EV to 3b anymore. Since flatting was also +EV, the slight gain in EV for 3bets ain't actually a gain for the overall EV of our entire preflop range.

Posted over 7 years ago

ThatDeviant

Avatar for ThatDeviant

750 posts
Joined 08/2008

I've only just got around to watching this video, but it's changed the way I think about poker drastically. Thankyou, Grindcore.

Posted over 7 years ago

Poemmel

Avatar for Poemmel

1025 posts
Joined 03/2009

Hey Grindcore!

I love your series and I think I need it very badly ^^

Omg this graph is so sick, when I checked it out I just looked at my monitor mouth open Grin
What do you say to this? Wink

I play NL200, 6-9 tables, sometimes a few more, but usually not cause there aren't enough good ones when I play (usually in the afternoon in europe... not that good of a time to grind it out) and around one half of the hands is fullring, the rest 6max.
Ok 3ptbb isn't that bad, but I figure out it could just be tons of more with that many leaks that lead to such a non showdown line.
Hope you learn me how to Wink
First 3 Episodes helped a lot, keep it helping Grin

Greez
Poemmel

Posted over 7 years ago

Teekay

Avatar for Teekay

13 posts
Joined 12/2009

Great video, I'll definitely check out the whole series!

Posted over 7 years ago

tubasteve

Avatar for tubasteve

7647 posts
Joined 11/2007

Lets say we get dealt either 72s or K9s, and we wanna 3b 50% of the time and our opponent doesn't know we get dealt only those 2 hands. Why would you ever 3b a 72o? For every 72o you 3b you have to fold a K9s or you'll go over the 50%.

In a BU v CO scenario we probably don't wanna 3b 50%, but a lower frequency. Still, the same logic behind it applies. The better the hand, the higher the EV of the 3b. So the top of our folding range is better to 3b bluff than the bottom. Ofcourse the bottom of our callingrange is even better to 3b bluff than the top of our folding range in a vacuum, but only by a small margin because villain mostly 4b/folds. But this will increase our 3b% so now the top of our folding range is no longer +EV to 3b anymore. Since flatting was also +EV, the slight gain in EV for 3bets ain't actually a gain for the overall EV of our entire preflop range.




so if you don't get dealt K9s but you keep getting dealt K8s...i assume you don't just keep folding it? i guess im just having trouble wrapping my head around the 100% concept since it seems that our perceived range is much more importnat than the range we are actually choosing to 3-bet, and we wont usually play long enough with ppl to wait for specific holdings that we can 3-bet with.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

so if you don't get dealt K9s but you keep getting dealt K8s...i assume you don't just keep folding it? i guess im just having trouble wrapping my head around the 100% concept since it seems that our perceived range is much more importnat than the range we are actually choosing to 3-bet, and we wont usually play long enough with ppl to wait for specific holdings that we can 3-bet with.



If our perceived range in a certain spot is really tight, we can widen our 100% range for that particular spot. It's not a static range, it changes from hand to hand.

Posted over 7 years ago

Ulkis

Avatar for Ulkis

671 posts
Joined 10/2007

There are lots of sources to use to get one's head around 3betting topic - baluga's 3betting seminar and redjoker's free leggo-video come to mind - 100% issue is explained quite well in redjoker's video, watcher just needs to connect the dots, the answers are not served on a plate. GC explained the topic very well. However, the meat is in the postflop section.

Rewatched yesterday and was reminded of a recent Slowhabit interview at mediocre poker...what makes some people so good and better than others. Not being afraid to look stupid in some spots or use non-standard lines.

Posted over 7 years ago

junglefever

Avatar for junglefever

156 posts
Joined 09/2008

youve made an error in logic:

if you have 75% equity and get called 40% of time, on avg you are going to lose (100-75)% of time (this is top of range--he is always calling with this) and win 15% (40-25)

(this isnt directly pertinent to vid) clearly in this case check > bet, but your redline will indeed increase here (while blueline decreases)

jungleman wonders: how do you practically determine how thin to bet based on the relationship between equity%, call%, and profit?

Posted over 7 years ago

junglefever

Avatar for junglefever

156 posts
Joined 09/2008

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

youve made an error in logic:

if you have 75% equity and get called 40% of time, on avg you are going to lose (100-75)% of time (this is top of range--he is always calling with this) and win 15% (40-25)

(this isnt directly pertinent to vid) clearly in this case check > bet, but your redline will indeed increase here (while blueline decreases)

jungleman wonders: how do you practically determine how thin to bet based on the relationship between equity%, call%, and profit?



I meant equity when called I think, haven't rewatched, but I'm pretty sure. I think I even said that with 75% it wouldn't really be a thin bet or something, implying that it was equity when called because you could easily be up vs a range of missed draws or nuts or something where valuebetting with 95% equity vs his range would be a huge mistake.

When thinking about wether to bet or not, just think about wether you're a favourite over his callingrange or not. Also, if you're bet/folding, take possible bluffraises into consideration as they're bad for your EV.

Posted over 7 years ago

itz-sooooted

Avatar for itz-sooooted

2 posts
Joined 09/2009

They're [WTSD, W$SD, W$WSF] never fully reliable as your opponent could be playing different because of board texture/reads on you/brainfart/distraction/whatever. Use your best judgement. Read up on Bayesian probability if you want a more mathematical approach.



how many hands do you think we'd need for OUR stats such as these to converge? Assuming that we've played out all the hands with little change in our general strategy towards the game.

also, how can i apply bayesian probability to determine these numbers? can you please expand a little on this? it's ok if it gets a little technical; ive done about a month's worth of bayesian statistics at uni and understand some basic concepts like posterior predictive distributions

awsum vid, hoping to apply to my game

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

how many hands do you think we'd need for OUR stats such as these to converge? Assuming that we've played out all the hands with little change in our general strategy towards the game.

also, how can i apply bayesian probability to determine these numbers? can you please expand a little on this? it's ok if it gets a little technical; ive done about a month's worth of bayesian statistics at uni and understand some basic concepts like posterior predictive distributions

awsum vid, hoping to apply to my game



I don't crunch numbers, I just do it by feel. The better you run the higher all your numbers will be aswell etc. If you see someone with a high WTSD and bit low W$SD over 200 hands or so, just play him like he's more likely to be a station than a nit, which is essentialy a Baysian concept.

Posted over 7 years ago

junglefever

Avatar for junglefever

156 posts
Joined 09/2008

in the video you implied sheer equity ("when you check back, you win 75%")

it's actually not QUITE that simple, look at the situation algebraicly. i derrived a formula for the difference of EV between bet/check

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Hmm I might have messed up. I did several recording attempts, I'm 100% sure I got it right in atleast one of them Poke Tongue

Anyway, it got the point across.

Posted over 7 years ago

Chris MintZ

Avatar for Chris MintZ

556 posts
Joined 07/2009

I just have to say this is a great video. It is so great i wish it wasnt made bc it can give a lot of players ideas. lol well anyway keep up the good work !!!

Posted over 7 years ago

moneytize

Avatar for moneytize

55 posts
Joined 05/2009

Time Link to 01:23:57

When the WTSD part is discussed by Grindcore, where do the numbers come from? A villain with a 30% wtsd is a poor target for a river bluff but a good one for a value but the opposite is likely true for a 25% wtsd? I'm not really sure what I'm asking here but if someone could clarify the numbers/discuss it'd be really helpful.

Posted over 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

When the WTSD part is discussed by Grindcore, where do the numbers come from? A villain with a 30% wtsd is a poor target for a river bluff but a good one for a value but the opposite is likely true for a 25% wtsd? I'm not really sure what I'm asking here but if someone could clarify the numbers/discuss it'd be really helpful.



Don't think of a particular absolute value (ie, 30% WTSD), but just try to visualize 2 players and one has a higher WTSD than the other. Think about the difference between them. Understanding what the stats actually are and what playing styles lead to them will help you alot more than memorizing what values are standard for the stats. Everything is related, 2 players with the same WTSD and W$SD stats can be entirely different when it comes to wether it's a good spot to bluff them or not, depending on the rest of their game. If you decide to not bluff some guy on the river only because your HUD tells you his WTSD is 30% you're using your HUD like a robot and not a thinking player, becoming the exact thing I'm trying to teach you not to be.

But most weaktight TAGs have 25% WTSD and most laggy paranoid bluffcatch happy players 30% or higher even, so generally speaking you're probably better off bluffing the 25% WTSD than the 30%.

Posted over 7 years ago

ifloppedquadsagain

Avatar for ifloppedquadsagain

3 posts
Joined 02/2010

Great video! Just upgraded my subscription today and some of the concepts in here are worth the whole of the fee.

Looking forward to digging in to parts two and three.

Posted over 7 years ago

Patman01

Avatar for Patman01

2 posts
Joined 01/2010

hey just wanted to say i think your an awesome player, i now watch a video everytime before i start up a session, your one's on red line have dramatically improved my play, and as of now my red line is absolutely sky rocketing its crazy Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

Patman01

Avatar for Patman01

2 posts
Joined 01/2010

Great video! Just upgraded my subscription today and some of the concepts in here are worth the whole of the fee.

Looking forward to digging in to parts two and three.




totally agree

Posted over 7 years ago

bjordan

Avatar for bjordan

640 posts
Joined 02/2009

Grindcore great video! I'm really looking forward to watching the rest of the series.

Recently I've really been working hard on coming up with predefined preflop and post flop profiles for my opponents. Having these profiles and a plan to play against them has REALLY helped me when adjusting vs different villains. It also makes me pay better attention, know what I'm looking for to put them on a profile, etc.

I really liked how you broke things down to "honest" and "dishonest" play. I though that was a really nice touch and a great way to break it down.

Great job

Posted over 7 years ago

bobpok

Avatar for bobpok

37 posts
Joined 02/2010

This is the best video i've ever seen! seriously!

Posted over 7 years ago

Dino7

Avatar for Dino7

15 posts
Joined 02/2010

Speechless...I've read litterary a ton of pokerbooks..And I've maybe learned m,ore in 90 minutes, than in the preceeding 6 months..or two yearsSmile

Don't wanna promote this to much for obvious reasons, just couldn't help it...Pure alchemy

Posted over 7 years ago

Dino7

Avatar for Dino7

15 posts
Joined 02/2010

Why do you play poker Grindcore? Smile You should be working for NASA, or trying to find a cure for uncurable deceases, or smthin...Smile

Posted over 7 years ago

Prologion

Avatar for Prologion

2093 posts
Joined 03/2010

One of the best vid, I have ever seen - thank you very muchWink

Min. 37:

Here you said that a light polarized 3bettingrange should include offsuite Ax-hands for obv. reasons (cardremoval-effect for ex.).

I will illustrate you why I am confusing here:
Imagine, I am in the bu vs. Co who opens.
In this special spot I determine on reads/information that I wanna coldcall QJs/o,
KTs/o-KQs/o, ATs/o-AQs/o and any 22- TT and some SCs/SOGs.
Because we are only 00BB deep, I do not want to light 3bets the topfoldingrange of my SCs/SOgs (pretty hands – let`s say 23s-67s and 24s-86s).
I wanna 3bet for Value AKs/o, JJ+.

 So the startingpoint of my Topfoldingrange which I wanna 3bet light is K9s/o.

Now let`s assume that based on my infos about the Co, I wanna 3bet light here 8%.
If I decrease now every hand of my Topfolding-range step by step regards to Kicker, it would look so:


A9s-A7s,K9s-K8s,QTs-Q9s,A9o-A7o,K9o-K8o,QTo-Q9o -> these are 8,4%.

Questions:
1.) Which role does it play if it is suited or offsuited?
2.) As you can see, I just decreases the kickers regards to my wished light3betting-Frequency hand by hand.
So I did not have so many Ax-hands, which you said should be “all” in our light3bet-range.

I hope you got my point.
How would your light3bet-range look in my given scenario?

Min. 63:
You said that a strategy to exploit Villain`s leak here of too much barreling is to almost never raise the flop with our Toprange for value.
This is obv. clear and right.
What you actually think about monsterdraws (like FD + OESD) vs. such a Villain?
Just anyways raise/broke flop or call Flop + turn b/c we will anyways improve on river very often and could in this case also get a riverbet out of him.

Min. 64:
Here you said that instead of raise a draw on the flop like we often are doing, especially strong draws, we can here b/c of his wide 2ndBarellrange, only call flop to raise the turn.
Do you balance here anything?
B/c the danger is that if you only call a drawy flop and raise the turn, your range is often capped (no strong madehands , > Onepair) on the turn, expect of when another draw comes in (for ex. a str8draw).
So you trunraise could look to many Villains more like a semibluff than a valueraise with a monster.

Posted over 7 years ago

identifier

Avatar for identifier

2141 posts
Joined 07/2008

Great video. One of the best I've seen in ages.

Now to read all these comments Grin

Posted over 7 years ago

airharm

Avatar for airharm

4 posts
Joined 10/2008

This guy can talk about poker theory for a billion years without stopping, omfg. Good video.

Posted over 7 years ago

DMunich

Avatar for DMunich

1 posts
Joined 12/2009

nice video, i learnt a lot.

I use to play live games. I try to link your analysis (especially the relations between different categories) of the stat-chart to the live table. It takes a while to get a sample size and you can hardly say if s.o. has a stat of 20 or 25% in e.g. WWFS. Have you any recommendations for that?

Posted about 7 years ago

gsiciliano

Avatar for gsiciliano

76 posts
Joined 12/2009

Man, this is just one of the best (if not THE best) videos I have ever seen !!!
The explanation on how the red line works is great and the post flop play and how to come up with lines to exploit opponent´s leaks is priceless. Congratulations Grindcore, great stuff !

Posted about 7 years ago

maxey127

Avatar for maxey127

1 posts
Joined 04/2010

MrTrocks

Avatar for MrTrocks

12 posts
Joined 05/2010

pain sensation

Avatar for pain sensation

63 posts
Joined 01/2009

sick video... one of the best videos i ever watched

Posted almost 7 years ago

mrcleanhands

Avatar for mrcleanhands

666 posts
Joined 01/2010

Hi Grindcore,

you mention that your value 3betting range should be hands your willing to get it in with if your 4bet. The rest is then considered part of your bluffing range.

But can't you have some intermediate range, where your 3B is for a sort of thinner value.

E.g. vs a fish. If he's going to call me with K3o or 56s then I can 3B KT for value, but I should also probably fold it to a 4B...

Did I misunderstand?

Posted almost 7 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Hi Grindcore,

you mention that your value 3betting range should be hands your willing to get it in with if your 4bet. The rest is then considered part of your bluffing range.

But can't you have some intermediate range, where your 3B is for a sort of thinner value.

E.g. vs a fish. If he's going to call me with K3o or 56s then I can 3B KT for value, but I should also probably fold it to a 4B...

Did I misunderstand?



The strategy I talked about in the video is a polarized 3b strategy, which you should use against people that 4b/fold. Against people that call a lot (like fish) you should use a depolarized 3b strategy, which is simply 3betting with the best hands (TT+, ATs+, AJo+, KQ etc).

Posted almost 7 years ago

innaig86

Avatar for innaig86

3 posts
Joined 07/2010

DeMented79

Avatar for DeMented79

39 posts
Joined 03/2008

excellent video. you can really how well you prepared before recording the video. some of the stuff in there I already knew, but some was new for me. although the video is pretty long, there is A LOT of good stuff in there in a compressed but clear way. nh sir Smile

Posted almost 7 years ago

doc.lemon

Avatar for doc.lemon

1810 posts
Joined 07/2009

Time Link to 00:00:19

Revisiting Grindore's series (brag) xD

How many people have actually watched and re-watched the first vid with notes? I know I couldn't be bothered a year ago when i didn't know Grindcore.

Also, why doesn't he post vids on DC anymore?

Posted over 6 years ago

Ass Get to Jigglin

Avatar for Ass Get to Jigglin

4301 posts
Joined 10/2010

Time Link to 01:12:51

grindcore, awesome video, all very very helpful. one thing im confused about:

earlier you said that checking back Tx on KT2rb puts us in difficult spots because our opponenet will bluff on turn and river and also value bet on turn and river, but here you say that our opponent wont bluff us much on the turn. these seem to contradict eachother a bit. i understand that the delayed cbet is effective if we expect our opponent to not bluff the turn much when we check back, but if we assume our opponent isnt bluffing much then how is our turn decision with Tx in this spot difficult (i.e. if hes not bluffing much, shouldnt we just fold?)?

i also don't see how checking back air sometimes makes our turn play easier when we have Tx (not sure if it is supposed to tho). .

again, great vid and thanks in advance

Posted over 6 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

grindcore, awesome video, all very very helpful. one thing im confused about:

earlier you said that checking back Tx on KT2rb puts us in difficult spots because our opponenet will bluff on turn and river and also value bet on turn and river, but here you say that our opponent wont bluff us much on the turn. these seem to contradict eachother a bit. i understand that the delayed cbet is effective if we expect our opponent to not bluff the turn much when we check back, but if we assume our opponent isnt bluffing much then how is our turn decision with Tx in this spot difficult (i.e. if hes not bluffing much, shouldnt we just fold?)?

i also don't see how checking back air sometimes makes our turn play easier when we have Tx (not sure if it is supposed to tho). .

again, great vid and thanks in advance



If we only check back Tx on KTx and cbet all air and valuehands, our checks are face up and our opponent can play perfect. So this puts us in a very hard spot when he bets the turn. Villain will always bet twice (he can bet every hand that beats us twice so he'll also do that with bluffs, as nobody expects you to fold Tx to 1 bet). Because of us always calling turn, his bluffing frequency also won't be very high. However, when we also check back air in that spot and villain knows this, suddenly his bluffing frequency should go up, as we're now sometimes folding. This makes our Tx call on the turn better, as he now won't always follow up on the river as his range would be imbalanced if he did. If he's increasing his turn bluffing frequency without giving up on the river, we can suddenlt call him down on both streets and get lots of value out of 2nd pair, which is great.

Does that make sense?

And I think the contradiction is because earlier on I was talking about in general and the later time was specifically about adjusting to a good regular in those spots. I haven't watched the video to check but I'm 95% sure it was something like that.

And aside from that, my philosophy is to never take anything for granted but to think about it for yourself and only apply to your game the things you agree with. So even if there is a glaring contradiction, just think about both sides. If one makes sense to you and the other doesn't, then apply that one side to your game and ignore the other one. There are so many winning players out there with so many contradicting plays, if you watch all their videos and apply everything you see to your own game, your game is gonna be a huge mess. This paragraph is especially important for microstakes players as they're most prone to blindly believing anything a player better than them says. I hope that made sense.


Also, a new series should be starting next Monday Smile

Posted over 6 years ago

Ass Get to Jigglin

Avatar for Ass Get to Jigglin

4301 posts
Joined 10/2010

If we only check back Tx on KTx and cbet all air and valuehands, our checks are face up and our opponent can play perfect. So this puts us in a very hard spot when he bets the turn. Villain will always bet twice (he can bet every hand that beats us twice so he'll also do that with bluffs, as nobody expects you to fold Tx to 1 bet). Because of us always calling turn, his bluffing frequency also won't be very high. However, when we also check back air in that spot and villain knows this, suddenly his bluffing frequency should go up, as we're now sometimes folding. This makes our Tx call on the turn better, as he now won't always follow up on the river as his range would be imbalanced if he did. If he's increasing his turn bluffing frequency without giving up on the river, we can suddenlt call him down on both streets and get lots of value out of 2nd pair, which is great.

Does that make sense?



so basically:

checking back air is effective immediately because we are representing a made hand and will get more credit when we bet the turn, and we gain information about our opponents range from seeing his turn action before we bet. then, once our opponent knows that we are sometimes checking back air, we can feel better about calling the turn with Tx because we expect him to be bluffing more often. also, we can feel better about folding the river, because once we call the turn he knows we dont have air and prob isnt bluffing often (tho there is some leveling that can go on there).

when you say, "he now won't always follow up on the river as his range would be imbalanced if he did," do you mean that if he was betting the river a lot, he'd have to be bluffing a lot and we can call him more easily?

thanks for the help, Bart, and congrats on the new series. .im looking forward to it.

Posted over 6 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008


when you say, "he now won't always follow up on the river as his range would be imbalanced if he did," do you mean that if he was betting the river a lot, he'd have to be bluffing a lot and we can call him more easily?



This was compared to before he found out that we check back air. If his bluffing frequencies when he thinks we only have Tx are optimal so that we're indifferent between calling down and folding, then any additional turn bluffs he makes must be given up with on the river or he'll become exploitable by simply calling him down. So once he knows we check air on the flop and he starts bluffing turn more, our Tx check backs now become more +EV as we induce more bluffs with our bluffcather. Note that he can't increase his valuebetting frequency to compensate for the bluffs, as he's already valuebetting every hand better than ours twice anyway. The only way for him to increase his valuebetting frequency is to start slowplaying premiums preflop, which weakens his 3betting range so he can't 3b bluff uss any more so we get more folds when we steal his blinds. Everything is related Smile

Posted over 6 years ago

Ass Get to Jigglin

Avatar for Ass Get to Jigglin

4301 posts
Joined 10/2010

This was compared to before he found out that we check back air. If his bluffing frequencies when he thinks we only have Tx are optimal so that we're indifferent between calling down and folding, then any additional turn bluffs he makes must be given up with on the river or he'll become exploitable by simply calling him down. So once he knows we check air on the flop and he starts bluffing turn more, our Tx check backs now become more +EV as we induce more bluffs with our bluffcather. Note that he can't increase his valuebetting frequency to compensate for the bluffs, as he's already valuebetting every hand better than ours twice anyway. The only way for him to increase his valuebetting frequency is to start slowplaying premiums preflop, which weakens his 3betting range so he can't 3b bluff uss any more so we get more folds when we steal his blinds. Everything is related Smile



cool. . that all makes sense now. thanks again, Bart.

Posted over 6 years ago

dulo80

Avatar for dulo80

39 posts
Joined 03/2010

This was the third time I have watched this videio and I still found new things in it.
Thanks a lot for it!

Posted over 6 years ago

swightness

Avatar for swightness

22 posts
Joined 02/2011

for those that hate the video content: Download the Ipod version, put it on your blackberry/ipod, listen to it next time you have to drive across the country. I think I listened to this 3 times on my trip this weekend and it either tought me something new or put me to sleep each time Smile

Posted over 6 years ago

coolhand

Avatar for coolhand

43 posts
Joined 02/2011

watched again for 8th time. best poker video i have ever seen. hail grindcore. gratitude.

the postflop deviation theory is tremendous.

Posted over 6 years ago

Anonomous1

Avatar for Anonomous1

75 posts
Joined 12/2010

Time Link to 00:22:56

In regards to a player in the BB, whom VPIP is less than or equal to 20... Wouldn't it be more profitable to not push stealing their BB 100% because they will make the adjustment faster to 3bet light, and we would have to slightly reduce our BTN pfr %. My estimate would be like 70-80%, stealing their blind. But 100% of the time maybe it takes them 2 to 4 orbitals to find the hand/courage to 3bet us, unless they're really nitty, but 20% VPIP i think it's pretty high for 100%. what do you think?
I just think it makes our stealing look a little less obvious at under 100%, gives us a little more credibility for a few orbitals.

Posted over 6 years ago

bushy

Avatar for bushy

7 posts
Joined 12/2010

How about a villain with a high flop c-bet (like in link below), extremely low turn cbet (like 0-15), but
high river c-bet .. Is this a good candidate to float and bet the turn when he checks?

I don't think so, because I guess he's afraid to build a pot on the turn with anything but the nuts, so he goes for pot control and then some value on the river? But then it seems like he should be checking back a higher percentage of rivers...

What's the optimal line vs. a player like this?

http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m558/bushy3/floatquestion.jpg

Posted over 6 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

In regards to a player in the BB, whom VPIP is less than or equal to 20... Wouldn't it be more profitable to not push stealing their BB 100% because they will make the adjustment faster to 3bet light, and we would have to slightly reduce our BTN pfr %. My estimate would be like 70-80%, stealing their blind. But 100% of the time maybe it takes them 2 to 4 orbitals to find the hand/courage to 3bet us, unless they're really nitty, but 20% VPIP i think it's pretty high for 100%. what do you think?
I just think it makes our stealing look a little less obvious at under 100%, gives us a little more credibility for a few orbitals.



Even at 10/20 not all regulars adapt to a 100% stealing frequency. And 20% is not high at all. Sure if I thought it was a very noticable exploit, like actually 3betting someone with ATC when you in theory can, I'd lower the frequency just like with 3bets. But if you try it out you'll find an extremely low number of regulars actually adjusting. And especially 20vpip regs won't adjust as they tend to be the mass tablers.

Posted over 6 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

How about a villain with a high flop c-bet (like in link below), extremely low turn cbet (like 0-15), but
high river c-bet .. Is this a good candidate to float and bet the turn when he checks?

I don't think so, because I guess he's afraid to build a pot on the turn with anything but the nuts, so he goes for pot control and then some value on the river? But then it seems like he should be checking back a higher percentage of rivers...

What's the optimal line vs. a player like this?

http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m558/bushy3/floatquestion.jpg



I think you don't really understand what the individual stats mean, so talking about how they relate is a step too far. You've also left out all the stats that might be useful in what his range is for the bet/check/bet line. Also telling you how to beat that player is like giving you a fish instead of teaching you how to fish. Ask yourself what he's doing to much and what he's not doing enough. Where is he too honest, where is he too dishonest. Try not to blindly play the stats. Use stats to get suspicions about his play and try to confirm them with actual observations. Reads are much more valuable than HUD stats. Especially when the stats don't fit into a very common stereotype.

Posted over 6 years ago

coolhand

Avatar for coolhand

43 posts
Joined 02/2011

. Use stats to get suspicions about his play and try to confirm them with actual observations. e.



genius. this is why gc crushes

Posted over 6 years ago

Manchild

Avatar for Manchild

1454 posts
Joined 01/2008

This is a great video, wish I had watched it a year ago! excited to catch up on the rest of the series

Posted about 6 years ago

Rothko

Avatar for Rothko

20 posts
Joined 11/2010

Sorry, I know it's an old video, but I have to say that it is the best video I have ever seen.

Thank you Grindcore.

Posted about 6 years ago

JimAfternoon

Avatar for JimAfternoon

77 posts
Joined 03/2011

Yes, I agree. This is the best video that I have seen on this site or any other site. I've watched it 4-5 times now and took notes. This video opened my eyes to a whole new way of thinking about the game. Thanks GC!!!

Posted about 6 years ago

onehundred47

Avatar for onehundred47

404 posts
Joined 10/2009

How about a villain with a high flop c-bet (like in link below), extremely low turn cbet (like 0-15), but
high river c-bet .. Is this a good candidate to float and bet the turn when he checks?

I don't think so, because I guess he's afraid to build a pot on the turn with anything but the nuts, so he goes for pot control and then some value on the river? But then it seems like he should be checking back a higher percentage of rivers...

What's the optimal line vs. a player like this?

http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m558/bushy3/floatquestion.jpg



doesn't this 100% river cbet related with 10% cbet turn ? . If he cbet flop, ck turn. bet river. This river bet is not a cbet right ? he have to bet 3 streets to add to river cbet percentage.

Just rewatched this video and reading all comments . very useful but hard to implement if we are not always thinking about it.

Posted almost 6 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

doesn't this 100% river cbet related with 10% cbet turn ? . If he cbet flop, ck turn. bet river. This river bet is not a cbet right ? he have to bet 3 streets to add to river cbet percentage.

Just rewatched this video and reading all comments . very useful but hard to implement if we are not always thinking about it.



It's only counted as a cbet if you raised preflop and kept betting postflop. The c in cbet stands for continuation, so it means continued aggression, not checking at some point. I think I answered the post you quoted, though there are tons of replies to this video so it might be hard to find and/or easy to overlook.

Posted almost 6 years ago

The Shark Knight

Avatar for The Shark Knight

1 posts
Joined 10/2009

nopotential

Avatar for nopotential

2 posts
Joined 02/2011

Hands down best video I have seen on this site, extremely excited to see the rest of the series (newer member, just found this series)

Thank you Grindcore you are very good at providing examples to back up your points and making theory enjoyable to listen to

Posted over 5 years ago

Wolfspirit

Avatar for Wolfspirit

2 posts
Joined 10/2011

This was recommended to me and it is SUPERB! Great job Grindcore.

I must say though, it wasn't the easiest of videos to follow, even with Microsoft Word open at the side taking notes, I think I only managed to grasp about 85% of the concepts. I hope that I'm able to understand it better when it's put into action in future episodes Smile

Posted over 5 years ago

Kade1988

Avatar for Kade1988

61 posts
Joined 12/2011

Damnn i never looked at my "Red Line" i always just looked at the green and thought i farm my limit perfectly.
I am playin nl50 and nl100 and holy shit my red line sucks.
Playin NL50 since 3 month now NL100 if good tables with fish Poke Tongue

This and the last 2 month all look quite the same:

http://imageshack.us/f/109/dezredline.jpg/

Am i leaky? I guess so this is ugly Frown
What should i do !?
Im not even close to break even with red line!

Posted over 5 years ago

Grindcore

Avatar for Grindcore

2383 posts
Joined 11/2008

Damnn i never looked at my "Red Line" i always just looked at the green and thought i farm my limit perfectly.
I am playin nl50 and nl100 and holy shit my red line sucks.
Playin NL50 since 3 month now NL100 if good tables with fish Poke Tongue

This and the last 2 month all look quite the same:

http://imageshack.us/f/109/dezredline.jpg/

Am i leaky? I guess so this is ugly Frown
What should i do !?
Im not even close to break even with red line!



Rewatch this video, especially the beginning, and make sure you truly understand what the red line is before you try fixing something that ain't broke.

Posted over 5 years ago

Djuseppe

Avatar for Djuseppe

148 posts
Joined 08/2011

Returned to this video again. And got a question: Bart, where you have been studying from? (I mean poker and what vids, sites, books and coaches)

thank you!

Posted almost 5 years ago

Djuseppe

Avatar for Djuseppe

148 posts
Joined 08/2011

oops! sorry for this but I got here:


please stop PMing me with questions about this, just look around in the 2+2 marketplace subforums if you want to know more about stakes). I watched alot of videos, was very active on 2+2 in the strategy forums, talked alot of poker with friends, thought of poker strategy in the shower, while waiting in line at the store, in bed when not able to sleep, even my dreams were often about poker. I never copied a style from any video or blindly applied any concept I heard of or read about. I only took away ideas that I agreed with after critically thinking about them myself, and applied them to my own game.

Posted almost 5 years ago

mario rasta1

Avatar for mario rasta1

20 posts
Joined 03/2013

hello grindcore, exc vid, really helpfull, as this vid was basically of theory i want to ask you about breaks between sessions, i play 11 hours at day on 12 tables having 5mins break after 1 hour playing, so the q is am I doing it all right or i just need less breaks? whats the best profitable option here? maybe each 2 hours having that break? how do you deeal with this?

Posted about 2 years ago



HomePoker Videos → The Thin Red Line → Episode One