Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by threads13 (Micro/Small Stakes)

Time Link to 00:01:00

Hi Threads,

Do you recommend slowplaying KK and AA on you're first 3-bet? Table 3

90% of the time I 3-bet a tag for the first time they fold. I know that makes for good argument to
3-bet bluff them 1 or 2 times before you are dealt a monster, but how do you feel about just flatting
when you haven't 3-bet them yet?

-thx.

Time Link to 00:01:24

Same hand, Table 3

You said you wouldn't be surprised if you were raised on the flop. the Board was like 7xxr kind of dry. Would you flat a raise, or just jam in to stack TT-QQ?

Time Link to 00:15:37

Very educational with the 44 against the fish and the betsizing on Table 1.

15:30....take me to value-town!!

Time Link to 00:22:04

Table 4 you were thinking about check raising Gilad as a bluff with 99.

If Gilad had AK/AQ on the A high board in that situation and thought he could continue because you had enough bluffs or weird raises with worse hands, I think Gillad can only call your flop check raise, it would be insane to do anything else right?

Time Link to 00:23:27

Table 2, glissdady 3-bet you bvb you had TT and were planning on getting it in, if you had 22-99 how would you react to that 3-bet?

Time Link to 00:29:51

Table 2 we open 84s otb, and I think a fish is in the blind. Aren't we supposed to be ditching speculative hands w/out SD value against loose passive or loose aggressive fish since they are harder to bluff post flop?

Time Link to 00:40:10

On Table 4 in the 3-bet pot....I like Gillad's Turn Check against you with AK. If he considers you to be a good player and not a station, how likely is it that he's going to get 3-streets of value?

Time Link to 00:59:23

Thanks for doing the hand analysis at the end, would like to see that again in future video.

Time Link to 00:54:40

If he calls the turn we also lose the $25 we bet on the turn, which makes it -EV.

Threads-

Talking about black friday and the changes since then in these new sites and games has been a big adjustment for me. I played 200 and 400nl on ftp and when bf hit i was destroying the games. I just started playing 25- 100nl again on a euro site in the last month. Here are the biggest adjustments ive made and let me know if that's what u have been seeing as well.

Regs 3 bet somewhat randomized ranges but are easily exploitable. They have have out of whack frequencies and dont know how to combat aggression. For example some regs at 100 and 50 on the network im playing on 3 bet 5 bet like 15% of the time when u open the btn. So i have started to min 4 bet to make their 5b jam w/ ATo and KJ and small pairs un-profitable bc they have to risk over 100bbs usually to win not that many and in turn their play becomes unprofitable. So vs ur calling range they are just punting money to you

Also vs the min 4 bet they fold some % and call and c/f some % too. What combats you having bluffs is that you will just have strong hands enough to make them playing huge pots with marginal hands vs you a very -ev proposition. I think the mn 4b vs the high frequency 3 betters is better that standard sizing bc they get alot less when you fold to a jam. Also bc its not standard vs regs they dont know how to react bc they have not considered how to combat a tiny 4b. Let me know what ur thoughts are.

Time Link to 00:39:28

Disagree about flatting AKs on table 1 for the reason that he doesn't fold to 4bets.

This means you can 4b small to, say, $20, and one of two good things could happen.

1) He small 5bet/bluffs. He's in position, your 150bb deep, he can probably 5bet to $38 or $42 or something and get you to fold all your bluffs, and if he's never folding to your 4bets then he probably is the type to at least consider doing this.

2) He could call; he's in position and he's not facing awful odds, so I could easily see him calling with some hands that you have dominated or have to fold on a lot of flops.

This only changes if you think that he's the type of player to nit out 150bb deep, but given your general read on villain I don't think this is the case.

Time Link to 00:39:28

Given the board in analysis, I wouldn't even say it's 35%, 60%. It's tough for him to even call with JJ here, so I'd probably say 35%, 75-80%. As said previously though, your FS when he calls turn is is around $50, drops around $5 off of your average FS.

Time Link to 00:44:55

Hello,

very nice vid. I have one question to table 4:

Why do you c-bet this Board with K8o?

I guess, he will call preflop a lot of broadway-typ-hands. These hands will hit this Board imo very hard and therefore he will very often call a c-bet.

Time Link to 01:00:03

Thx for doing EV calculation. I would love to see, if you could include an Equity-Calculation into this kind of EV-calculation. I have no idea how to do this.

Diddy:

A simplified way of doing this is to calculate your equity vs villains range and then to use the (equity %) x (size of the pot) as a discount on the bet.

A simplified example:

You check/ship a flop with an open ended straight flush draw. Assume 100bb starting stacks and it's a 3bet pot and villain has cbet. Pot at the start of the pot we'll assume to be 20bb, and assume his cbet is 10bb. You ship 90bb to win 30bb. You assume you have 40% equity when called, and the final pot will be 200bb. Therefore, you will win an average of 80bb (40% X 200bb) from the pot when called.

You can take this 80bb as a discount on your 90bb bluff, and say that you are only shipping 10bb to win 30bb, and therefore villain only needs to fold 25% of the time for you to BE.

Hi Threads,

Do you recommend slowplaying KK and AA on you're first 3-bet? Table 3

90% of the time I 3-bet a tag for the first time they fold. I know that makes for good argument to
3-bet bluff them 1 or 2 times before you are dealt a monster, but how do you feel about just flatting
when you haven't 3-bet them yet?

-thx.

No way. This player I have 1.8k FR hands on. We play 6-max together as well. There's a lot of history between us. As I mention, he isn't into folding vs me so flatting misses a ton of value.

Same hand, Table 3

You said you wouldn't be surprised if you were raised on the flop. the Board was like 7xxr kind of dry. Would you flat a raise, or just jam in to stack TT-QQ?

He probably doesn't have those in this range. He'd likely 4-bet shove them pre. Thus, he's much more likely on a bluff so I probably flat or 3-bet small to induce a bluff shove.

Table 4 you were thinking about check raising Gilad as a bluff with 99.

If Gilad had AK/AQ on the A high board in that situation and thought he could continue because you had enough bluffs or weird raises with worse hands, I think Gillad can only call your flop check raise, it would be insane to do anything else right?

I think that's where I was going with it, but looking at the hand now it's probably better to OOP float as a bluff.

Table 2, glissdady 3-bet you bvb you had TT and were planning on getting it in, if you had 22-99 how would you react to that 3-bet?

Of course. 4-bet/folding TT vs a guy who is very in my face pre-flop sounds insane.

I'd probably flat 99 and 88.

Table 2 we open 84s otb, and I think a fish is in the blind. Aren't we supposed to be ditching speculative hands w/out SD value against loose passive or loose aggressive fish since they are harder to bluff post flop?

The problem with this line of thought is we are labeling 84s "speculative". It's a label I never use because it's not descriptive at all. It doesn't talk about type of hands we are going to flop/turn. It just implies that we have big hands on the river a lot. That's interesting, but the flop is pretty important so using a term that completely neglects it, in a roundabout way, kind of neglects the flop. It puts the emphasis on making a big hand and implies that nothing else good came come from this hand. Thus we should fold the hand pre-flop, right?

Let's talk about what this hand really does. This hand will flop a lot of draws and a lot of medium strength pairs. Draws will be good to bluff with and it will be easy to bluff a player who has nothing most of the time. We still get paid when we hit them too. Also, a pair like 8x is going to be a hand we can value bet (because since the player has nothing he will give us some FE and still call with hands that 8x will beat). Same thing goes to a lesser degree with 4x.

Players like this just give you a lot of equity in both pot and fold. They don't have much, so they fold a lot. But they still call with trashy hands, even though they fold a lot, so we still have decent equity when we get call. It's very much a best of both worlds, so we should play a lot of hands. It's a great situation.

On Table 4 in the 3-bet pot....I like Gillad's Turn Check against you with AK. If he considers you to be a good player and not a station, how likely is it that he's going to get 3-streets of value?

I agree, but do you really think I'm folding KQ on the turn? Hard for me to find a fold with that hand. What about QQ? He certainly gets value playing his hand this way, but he gives me a free card and doesn't really get "better" value unless I'm bluffing and it's hard for him to give me credit for a lot of bluffs on this board texture. He also checked the top of his range, so his range gets very weighted towards bluffs in the future.

If he calls the turn we also lose the $25 we bet on the turn, which makes it -EV.

Ah ha! Good catch. I was really surprised to see this come out +EV and good to see my intuition was correct.

As you can see, getting a little bit of a hand really makes it easy to see how we can make up that small about of -EV.

Disagree about flatting AKs on table 1 for the reason that he doesn't fold to 4bets.

This means you can 4b small to, say, $20, and one of two good things could happen.

1) He small 5bet/bluffs. He's in position, your 150bb deep, he can probably 5bet to $38 or $42 or something and get you to fold all your bluffs, and if he's never folding to your 4bets then he probably is the type to at least consider doing this.

2) He could call; he's in position and he's not facing awful odds, so I could easily see him calling with some hands that you have dominated or have to fold on a lot of flops.

This only changes if you think that he's the type of player to nit out 150bb deep, but given your general read on villain I don't think this is the case.

Yeah I should 4-bet him for value. I pulled up the hand and saw the player and just immediately though "I'm surprised I suggested a flat here".

Given the board in analysis, I wouldn't even say it's 35%, 60%. It's tough for him to even call with JJ here, so I'd probably say 35%, 75-80%. As said previously though, your FS when he calls turn is is around $50, drops around $5 off of your average FS.

What exactly are you referring to? My FE? Yeah, I agree it's hard for him to call with very many hands on the river so I should have a ton of FE.

Hello,

very nice vid. I have one question to table 4:

Why do you c-bet this Board with K8o?

I guess, he will call preflop a lot of broadway-typ-hands. These hands will hit this Board imo very hard and therefore he will very often call a c-bet.

He's fairly tight so he's folding anything worse than 9x, imo. Maybe a few floats with AQ/AK and gutshots/OESDs, but thats about it. The only way he has a J is AJs, KJs, QJs, JTs. I don't put him on loose enough to have things like JTo in his range, so he actually doesn't have that many Jx. I think you get a fold about 50% of the time here.

You can use Combonator (as I showed at the end of episode 1) to take a look at this situation. See if my 60% FE estimate is right if he is only calling pre-flop with JJ-22, AQ, AJ-ATs, KQs-KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs. He only calls the flop with 99+, AQ, Jx, KQs, QTs, KTs. Doing this really helps these things
becomes intuition while you are playing.

As an aside, if you were going to pick a hand to give up with, this is a pretty good one. It's totally bricked this board. So, if we thought our opponent was going to play aggressively here if we c-bet too much, then we need to start checking hands like this.

What exactly are you referring to? My FE? Yeah, I agree it's hard for him to call with very many hands on the river so I should have a ton of FE.

Yes, I am regarding your FE on the turn. Given his flat pre-flop and him being in the CO it's pretty hard for him to have an AK float, and so his range boils down to basically Kx floats that ran into a pair (not weighted very heavily), maybe 99-JJ (if he's willing to call turn fold river w/ this hand), and *maybe* 98s assuming he raise/calls that preflop.

Thanks Threads

No way. This player I have 1.8k FR hands on. We play 6-max together as well. There's a lot of history between us. As I mention, he isn't into folding vs me so flatting misses a ton of value.



He probably doesn't have those in this range. He'd likely 4-bet shove them pre. Thus, he's much more likely on a bluff so I probably flat or 3-bet small to induce a bluff shove.



I think that's where I was going with it, but looking at the hand now it's probably better to OOP float as a bluff.



Of course. 4-bet/folding TT vs a guy who is very in my face pre-flop sounds insane.

I'd probably flat 99 and 88.




The problem with this line of thought is we are labeling 84s "speculative". It's a label I never use because it's not descriptive at all. It doesn't talk about type of hands we are going to flop/turn. It just implies that we have big hands on the river a lot. That's interesting, but the flop is pretty important so using a term that completely neglects it, in a roundabout way, kind of neglects the flop. It puts the emphasis on making a big hand and implies that nothing else good came come from this hand. Thus we should fold the hand pre-flop, right?

Let's talk about what this hand really does. This hand will flop a lot of draws and a lot of medium strength pairs. Draws will be good to bluff with and it will be easy to bluff a player who has nothing most of the time. We still get paid when we hit them too. Also, a pair like 8x is going to be a hand we can value bet (because since the player has nothing he will give us some FE and still call with hands that 8x will beat). Same thing goes to a lesser degree with 4x.

Players like this just give you a lot of equity in both pot and fold. They don't have much, so they fold a lot. But they still call with trashy hands, even though they fold a lot, so we still have decent equity when we get call. It's very much a best of both worlds, so we should play a lot of hands. It's a great situation.



I agree, but do you really think I'm folding KQ on the turn? Hard for me to find a fold with that hand. What about QQ? He certainly gets value playing his hand this way, but he gives me a free card and doesn't really get "better" value unless I'm bluffing and it's hard for him to give me credit for a lot of bluffs on this board texture. He also checked the top of his range, so his range gets very weighted towards bluffs in the future.

Time Link to 00:39:00

On table 1 and 2 you have AKs and JTs and a weak player behind in both situations. Earlier, you said you want to raise big(ger) again versus weak players with valuehands.

Is this just auto-piloting making it 2,87bb or any specific reason to open smaller?

On table 1 and 2 you have AKs and JTs and a weak player behind in both situations. Earlier, you said you want to raise big(ger) again versus weak players with valuehands.

Is this just auto-piloting making it 2,87bb or any specific reason to open smaller?

Yeah, pretty much. Neither of those situations are super obvious "you'll have a big fish OOP vs you" spots though, (in one hand its not a super-fish, in another the fish would have position) so it's debatable on which is better. Not too big of a deal either way there.

Table 2, glissdady 3-bet you bvb you had TT and were planning on getting it in, if you had 22-99 how would you react to that 3-bet?

Of course. 4-bet/folding TT vs a guy who is very in my face pre-flop sounds insane.

I'd probably flat 99 and 88.

What's the difference between staking of TT and flating 99,88 oop vs his wide 3b/5b shove range?

Time Link to 00:02:17

KK hand on bottom left - you say his turn sizing looks value-ish, but shouldn't he be making that turn sizing with his entire range? It's cheap as a bluff, and sets up stacks nice for river bluffs and value shoves.

What's the difference between staking of TT and flating 99,88 oop vs his wide 3b/5b shove range?

TT is a better hand

Check out your equity vs a wide 5b range. Give him something like 88+,AQ+.

Again on the KK hand - In the comments above, PutMyRobeOnRITE asked:

"Same hand, Table 3

You said you wouldn't be surprised if you were raised on the flop. the Board was like 7xxr kind of dry. Would you flat a raise, or just jam in to stack TT-QQ?"

And you said:

He probably doesn't have those in this range. He'd likely 4-bet shove them pre. Thus, he's much more likely on a bluff so I probably flat or 3-bet small to induce a bluff shove.

If you don't expect him to have those in his range, then what you shoving for value against on the turn?

Again on the KK hand - In the comments above, PutMyRobeOnRITE asked:

"Same hand, Table 3

You said you wouldn't be surprised if you were raised on the flop. the Board was like 7xxr kind of dry. Would you flat a raise, or just jam in to stack TT-QQ?"

And you said:



If you don't expect him to have those in his range, then what you shoving for value against on the turn?

Hmmmm yeah you bring up some weird things I said there. Having had a few weeks since the hand has played and having time to sit back and think about it I think it's best if I speak my thoughts about it now, after reflecting. Let me just have a fresh run at it.


I think he would be taking stuff like AK/AQ, JJ, TT and getting in pre-flop. I've seen him 4-bet shove these hands 100bb deep before. When I bet the flop and get called he could be on some sort of small PP or SCs that hit a pair, or a pure float (maybe a gutshot... maybe bare overcards). It's hard for me to say what he does with small PPs. Off the top of my head I don't remember seeing him call with them, but he may.

When the turn comes it makes it harder for me to get value as there's less hands to be getting value from, and also because he may not think that I would bluff on this card a lot. So, if he has less than TP he probably just mucks. I thought he had a lot of floats in his range so I checked to induce a bluff. Essentially, I think I get better value by checking.

Then he does a very small bet amount there on the turn, which is unlikely to be a bluff. It's likely to be some sort of thin value hand. I should just call here. We already are discounting the overpair hands because of pre-flop play, so there's not many combos I can get called by that I beat, and there aren't very many hands that I beat but have equity against me, so raising to collect dead equity is not a valid reason.

I definitely think the turn shove is a mistake in hindsight.

cool, so are you calling turn and river?

Then he does a very small bet amount there on the turn, which is unlikely to be a bluff. It's likely to be some sort of thin value hand.

why do you not expect this to be a bluff? Seems like a decent sizing to take with his whole range on that board as it gives him a good price on his bluffs and he can still get stacks in on the river with his value hands.

Time Link to 00:03:39

any reason for folding the AJo on the upper right?

cool, so are you calling turn and river?



why do you not expect this to be a bluff? Seems like a decent sizing to take with his whole range on that board as it gives him a good price on his bluffs and he can still get stacks in on the river with his value hands.

I don't think he's thinking on that level. In fact, I think very few 100NL guys are thinking about bluffing small. Most guys just bet big when they want a bluff. I don't have any reason to give him credit for betting that small. You very rarely see guys bet that small, which is a good indication that they aren't bluffing that way.

any reason for folding the AJo on the upper right?

Pretty much an auto-fold for me. I don't think it's good enough hand vs a tight range opening range ... especially OOP. We can't really call and do much of anything profitably. I don't think his range is wide enough for me to 3-bet either. I don't see where the profit is coming from, so I fold.

Time Link to 00:25:37

Here on table 1 with 99, why do you call here and what is your plan?

1- Because we have showdown value? Then plan will be to see a cheap showdown by checking most of the turns and rivers.

2- Because we expect vilain to shutdown a lot OTT and we might be able to turn our hand into a bluff on a lot of turn cards?

Time Link to 00:42:15

Just wanted to discuss a little more in depth the "barrel fish on the turn" topic because I remember you brought this up in the first episode and I paid attention to it. I migth be one of those "don't bluff fish" thinker, but I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me.

So, for example, in the QQ hand (at 37:03), I guess your turn barreling range will be something like :

A lot of Ax hands, like ATx+, KQ, FDs, Straigh draws + obviously a wide value range? So in end, we should be barreling a large part of our flop cbetting range OTT even vs weak players that don't fold much vs cbet?

Here on table 1 with 99, why do you call here and what is your plan?

1- Because we have showdown value? Then plan will be to see a cheap showdown by checking most of the turns and rivers.

2- Because we expect vilain to shutdown a lot OTT and we might be able to turn our hand into a bluff on a lot of turn cards?

I'm more looking to bet the turn to get him to fold one heart hands that I'm mostly ahead of. I don't think he'll barrel me off my hand that much on that board so when he does bet the turn I can comfortably fold.

Just wanted to discuss a little more in depth the "barrel fish on the turn" topic because I remember you brought this up in the first episode and I paid attention to it. I migth be one of those "don't bluff fish" thinker, but I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense to me.

So, for example, in the QQ hand (at 37:03), I guess your turn barreling range will be something like :

A lot of Ax hands, like ATx+, KQ, FDs, Straigh draws + obviously a wide value range? So in end, we should be barreling a large part of our flop cbetting range OTT even vs weak players that don't fold much vs cbet?

Yes, I think so provided that we think they'll be folding a lot on the turn. On this particular board texture I think we should be betting two with a ton of hands. I might give up on the flop if my hand doesn't offer much room for improvement AND our opponent won't fold the flop much.

I think it's helpful to breakdown they ways we can win. We want to be putting money in pots that we have some chance of actually winning, right?

When we have an airball then we can't win unless we make our opponent fold because we have air.

So if your opponent very rarely folds the flop, then why bet? Well, you can bet if you get your opponent to fold a lot on the turn even if they don't fold a lot on the flop.

Ok, that's good, but can you bet a lot on the turn? We then have to ask what we can legimiately bet on the turn given our hand. On some board textures we'll find that we can really only bet the turn 1/3 of the time. If your opponent is only folding the flop 30%, and 40% on the turn (but you can only bluff 1/3 of the time) then you probably just want to give up with your hand or delayed c-bet. However, if you have a situation where you can bet the turn 50% of the time and experience 50% FE on the turn, then you might consider betting the flop with a wider range in the first stage of a 2-barrel bluff.

I think it's good to use the EV table and run some simulations on 2-barrels given different 2-barrels percentages and flop/turn FE's to get a feel for what these situations look like.

If he calls the turn we also lose the $25 we bet on the turn, which makes it -EV.

Good catch, people need to see this comment to realize the calculation above isn't 100% accurate with straight air

Time Link to 00:57:37

Are you giving up the river with this guy calls the turn or we jamming and hoping he has some stubborn under-pair that can't call?

Are you giving up the river with this guy calls the turn or we jamming and hoping he has some stubborn under-pair that can't call?

I think jamming the river is pretty reasonable.