Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by improva (Mid Stakes)

The Thin Red Line: Episode Six

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The Thin Red Line: Episode Six by improva

Improva steps in for one episode and talks about his theories about the red line and how to maximize your play at the tables as he plays 3-tables of 6max NLHE.

About The Thin Red Line Subscribe to

DeucesCracked welcomes fan favorite and new instructor Grindcore to the fold with this original video series about that thin, red line – nonshowdown winnings. This winter Bart will take a look at some common misconceptions about the red line and discuss the ins and outs of how small stakes 6max players can pick up previously unreachable profit.

Tags

the thin red line note taking reads improva 200nl 200 nl $1/2

Video Details

  • Game: nlhe
  • Stakes: Mid Stakes
  • 55 minutes long
  • Posted almost 2 years ago

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Comments for The Thin Red Line: Episode Six

mark89er

Avatar for mark89er

227 posts
Joined 03/2009

downloading this now, looking forward to it, been listening to ur audio in .mp3s in the general questions, goos shit imo! infact, awesome stuff!!

Posted almost 2 years ago

HundredsOfStuff

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6 posts
Joined 12/2009

at 31:00 on the TT hand you keep talking about the hand as if a 6 is a made straight.

Posted almost 2 years ago

improva

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Coach
2670 posts
Joined 02/2008

at 31:00 on the TT hand you keep talking about the hand as if a 6 is a made straight.



LOL yes

Posted almost 2 years ago

KeysorSoze

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64 posts
Joined 10/2009

Ive been waiting for E6 of this epic series like a 6 year has been waiting for Christmas all December!

@Grindcore

After Ive watched the thin red line, I have re-discovered my passion for poker and gotten the eager back for improving my game. Im now watching vids all day drooling like a child at a candy store Wink

Anyways just wanted to thank you for this awesome series

@Improva

Ey mester. Efter at have set grindcore vids, har jeg kastet mig over dine super vids. Som grindcore har du taget nogle virkeligt fede koncepter op og ikke mindst fået beskrevet og forklaret dem virkeligt godt! Ser frem til at se denne episode. Rigtigt lækkert arbejde.

Posted almost 2 years ago

joshowf13

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20 posts
Joined 05/2008

Bentz

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2 posts
Joined 12/2009

Just to clarify:

This is not grindcore but someone else filling in?

If so, I want to watch how grindcore plays, not someone else.

Apologies if I am mistaken, only watched the first few minutes.

Posted almost 2 years ago

mark89er

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227 posts
Joined 03/2009

Just to clarify:

This is not grindcore but someone else filling in?

If so, I want to watch how grindcore plays, not someone else.

Apologies if I am mistaken, only watched the first few minutes.



dude, this isnt just someone else filling in, improva is the nuts, watcg and enjoy and then listen to improvas free audio clips from his pieces of the puzzle, its the nuts!!!!!!!!!! and im near sure, that improva coached grindcore somewhere down the line!!!!

try and watch the thing before judging

Posted almost 2 years ago

Bentz

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2 posts
Joined 12/2009

dude, this isnt just someone else filling in, improva is the nuts, watcg and enjoy and then listen to improvas free audio clips from his pieces of the puzzle, its the nuts!!!!!!!!!! and im near sure, that improva coached grindcore somewhere down the line!!!!

try and watch the thing before judging



Thanks for the update chap.

I will check out improvas's vids.

I still can't see the point of him filling in for Grindcore though.
Will Grindcore be back??

Posted almost 2 years ago

SnappieVouz

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2300 posts
Joined 03/2009

can't give a timestamp because i watch it with media player

you have 66 to a button open, you dont know anything about his c-betting tendencies, and the board comes 3 diamonds, you say if you call there a lot of bad turn cards and you don't know what to do.
Therefore you should either call or fold, you say?

I don't understand this. If you don't know what do do on many turn cards wouldn't it be better to either fold or ch/r? Ofcourse the ch/r would probably be as a bluff. Is ch/r that flop way to spewy and fancy?

Posted almost 2 years ago

Zyr

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19 posts
Joined 07/2008

Time Link to 00:12:25

Talking about this 3barrel bluff with KT on the mono flop, you say it's a decent bluff spot because he's going to fold A8, 99, etc - BUT that you'd also value bet a queen. If you can bet Q for value, how is this a good spot to bluff?

Posted almost 2 years ago

KeysorSoze

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64 posts
Joined 10/2009

Talking about this 3barrel bluff with KT on the mono flop, you say it's a decent bluff spot because he's going to fold A8, 99, etc - BUT that you'd also value bet a queen. If you can bet Q for value, how is this a good spot to bluff?



I think what Improva means is that villain will expect us to valuebet a Q and therefor fold hands like A8, 99 etc - which is why its a decent bluff spot

Posted almost 2 years ago

KeysorSoze

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64 posts
Joined 10/2009

Ah.. I think I understand the Q now..

If he can V-bet a queen he shouldn't be bluffing there? Interesting

Posted almost 2 years ago

onehundred47

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393 posts
Joined 10/2009

dude, this isnt just someone else filling in, improva is the nuts, watcg and enjoy and then listen to improvas free audio clips from his pieces of the puzzle, its the nuts!!!!!!!!!! and im near sure, that improva coached grindcore somewhere down the line!!!!

try and watch the thing before judging



where can I listen that free audio clips you're talking about ?

thank you

Posted almost 2 years ago

mark89er

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227 posts
Joined 03/2009

http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/...-pieces-from-t
theres a couple of threads going about, this is one of them, the amount of information in them is shocking, so take notes and relisten to bits of them to take it in!!!!

Posted almost 2 years ago

improva

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Coach
2670 posts
Joined 02/2008

Talking about this 3barrel bluff with KT on the mono flop, you say it's a decent bluff spot because he's going to fold A8, 99, etc - BUT that you'd also value bet a queen. If you can bet Q for value, how is this a good spot to bluff?



Super question. Looking forward to respond to that.

Posted almost 2 years ago

bjordan

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640 posts
Joined 02/2009

Thanks for the update chap.

I will check out improvas's vids.

I still can't see the point of him filling in for Grindcore though.
Will Grindcore be back??



I believe Improva coached Grindcore so some of their thoughts and approaches are going to be very similar. It's not as if a complete random player with a completely different thought process and style has stepped in.

I might be wrong though about him coaching Grindcore though but I'm pretty sure that's the case.

I'm really looking forward to this video!

Posted almost 2 years ago

delcrossb

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Coach
4129 posts
Joined 04/2009

Is episode 5 going to be released after ep 6?

Posted almost 2 years ago

Constantin

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124 posts
Joined 09/2008

Is episode 5 going to be released after ep 6?



5 was released with 4 afaik.

Posted almost 2 years ago

Ajeto

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45 posts
Joined 04/2009

Just to clarify:

This is not grindcore but someone else filling in?

If so, I want to watch how grindcore plays, not someone else.

Apologies if I am mistaken, only watched the first few minutes.



Grin thanks for making me laugh ...

Who is this Oliver aka Improva aka great coach ... anyway? Smile

Be grateful Wink

Posted almost 2 years ago

lolipopTV

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97 posts
Joined 02/2009

http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/...-pieces-from-t
theres a couple of threads going about, this is one of them, the amount of information in them is shocking, so take notes and relisten to bits of them to take it in!!!!



link is not working..please repair that

Posted almost 2 years ago

Ajeto

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45 posts
Joined 04/2009

onehundred47

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393 posts
Joined 10/2009

http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/...-pieces-from-t
theres a couple of threads going about, this is one of them, the amount of information in them is shocking, so take notes and relisten to bits of them to take it in!!!!



hey! could u correct the link pls. It says that doesnt exist anymore

Posted almost 2 years ago

Ajeto

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45 posts
Joined 04/2009

hey! could u correct the link pls. It says that doesnt exist anymore



100 47, did u try one post above yours?

Posted almost 2 years ago

nufan

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5 posts
Joined 10/2009

TecmoSuperBowl

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4878 posts
Joined 01/2009

I still can't see the point of him filling in for Grindcore though.
Will Grindcore be back??



From Joe Tall - "Unfortunately, Bart-Jan (Grindcore) over committed to the series. He has recently moved and had some personal family things to attend to. We should be seeing a TRL video soon, thank you for your patience."

Posted almost 2 years ago

onehundred47

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393 posts
Joined 10/2009

100 47, did u try one post above yours?


ah sorry. didn't saw your post. now it works. thank you ^^

Posted almost 2 years ago

Ajeto

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45 posts
Joined 04/2009

ah sorry. didn't saw your post. now it works. thank you ^^



glad to help. Enjoy, those are great videos/mp3s

Posted almost 2 years ago

shades

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804 posts
Joined 06/2008

Time Link to 00:02:02

A2s
DB seems pretty standard , but you say you have the plan to bet the river as a bluff if you miss. Number of things i would like to question here , i would expect him to fold most Tx to your large barrel. I wouldnt really expect him to fold that many Jx hands on the river , so can we not justify our barrel by the equity alone and plan to give up on the river if we miss?

Looking at combos for a rough idea its close
Hands calling - JQ,JK,JA = 33combos
Hands folding - KQ,89s,Q9s,AT = 31 combos

If he calls the turn with weaker Tx like KT or J9s hands that might fold river i guess its good. Vs a reg i can see a solid reason that we cant only bet here when we hit and never as a bluff but i just dont like the idea of triple barreling a bad player. I guess thats a leak in my game if i am always giving up here. We should given up on a Q,K , perhaps a 9 ?

Posted almost 2 years ago

bachis

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410 posts
Joined 05/2009

Time Link to 00:22:47

You say he is repping a ten or a boat. If we were in his situation and playing against a laggy guy dont we bet AK for value?

Posted almost 2 years ago

eeyore

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68 posts
Joined 09/2009

Question: How do you know Improva is saying something vitally important to your game?

Answer: His lips are moving.

Gonna have to watch this at least three more times to make sure I didn't miss anything.

It wouldn't be bad to have this vid in the Hudless Horseman series too.

Posted almost 2 years ago

shades

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804 posts
Joined 06/2008

Time Link to 00:35:46

How deep do you like to be before you consider changing your 3beting calling range oop ? adding more PP , suited aces or suited broadway type hands

Nice video , good job

Posted almost 2 years ago

Googolplexx

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6 posts
Joined 11/2009

Talking about this 3barrel bluff with KT on the mono flop, you say it's a decent bluff spot because he's going to fold A8, 99, etc - BUT that you'd also value bet a queen. If you can bet Q for value, how is this a good spot to bluff?



if villain knows that hero is capable of vbetting thinly here (i.e. w/ Qx) he will be more inclined to fold said hands (A8,99). as u increase your bluff range, you also need to widen your value range or you will be v unbalanced. for example, if villain knows that you are not capable of value betting a queen here, and that your range is more polarized then bluffing here is much less attractive.

Posted almost 2 years ago

jonk

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356 posts
Joined 10/2008

Time Link to 00:11:40

My initial thought here was to bet smaller, like $18 or so. He doesn't have an A or Q most of the time, but I think mid pocket pairs are a large part of his range and they won't call an overbet, but will call a small bet instead.

Posted almost 2 years ago

Zyr

Avatar for Zyr

19 posts
Joined 07/2008

A2s
DB seems pretty standard , but you say you have the plan to bet the river as a bluff if you miss. Number of things i would like to question here , i would expect him to fold most Tx to your large barrel. I wouldnt really expect him to fold that many Jx hands on the river , so can we not justify our barrel by the equity alone and plan to give up on the river if we miss?



(Edit: timelink 1:50)

If the river is a non-heart 2, 3, 5, 6, T or J*, I would rather be check-calling here than bluffing again. His stack size and call-call-call line so far makes me think there's not much fold equity. But since he's a passive player, he won't value bet a T and maybe not even some Jx, but even those guys bluff busted OESDs, so we can call and be good here often enough.

* Even if the river is a J, that takes away 11 combos of QJ/KJ/AJ from his range and he probably still won't valuebet AT. Same for a T, the few Tx combos he had on the turn are even fewer now, and he'd check more Jx hands.

Posted almost 2 years ago

Chris MintZ

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555 posts
Joined 07/2009

Time Link to 00:05:56

if your raising AQ for value on the turn why are you checking river? do you expect him to have a draw that he will bluff with? or with a smaller pair that checks it back? Wouldn't you bet the river for value or do u think he is betting more hands then calling so your making more money from his range?

Posted almost 2 years ago

bjordan

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640 posts
Joined 02/2009

Awesome video! I plan on watching it again and taking notes.

I really enjoyed the 3 tabling format with the notes being taken. I think it worked really well. Can't wait to see any video follow ups.

Posted almost 2 years ago

onehundred47

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393 posts
Joined 10/2009

one of the best videos i've ever seen.

Just one question. @50:20 with the A6o hand. You said that you probably can get some value in the turn, but also he always gonna call with a Q. what are your plans for the river on a flushdraw card/ blank / A ?
I have some problems to know how to play the river in that situation that we have some showdown value OOP and we know once he calls we probably are no good at showdown, but in the other hand when we check the river that's a good situation for him to bluff river. and if we bet river we are turning our hand into bluff. err thankyou

Posted almost 2 years ago

djdag

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19 posts
Joined 10/2009

Improva you make playing poker look so easy. Great video, great style, great explanation.

One of the best vids on this site.

Would be great to have some follow up vids.

Posted almost 2 years ago

reemas

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355 posts
Joined 01/2008

Improva,

1.) 32:00 - w/ AJ BU vs SB you say, "betting here is fine, checking behind is fine". I typically cbet here (not always a good thing) because I would be lost if my opponent leads the turn. I wouldn't know if he's leading because I look like I'm giving up or if he hit the flop or turn. What was your plan if he led the turn? (Wouldn't cbetting be better?)

2.) 48:45 - w/ T9s you opt to call the turn with your flush. Similar to question 1, what do you do if a fourth diamond comes and he leads? Or check raises? Why?

Thanks!

Posted almost 2 years ago

PJ0548

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7 posts
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Ajeto

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45 posts
Joined 04/2009

if your raising AQ for value on the turn why are you checking river? do you expect him to have a draw that he will bluff with? or with a smaller pair that checks it back? Wouldn't you bet the river for value or do u think he is betting more hands then calling so your making more money from his range?



He probably checks the river since there are only few hands that he is getting called by and are worse (like KQ). Everything else villain has is now either stronger or not calling river bet. That means a check is superior play here, since villain might be betting missed flush draws, better hands and also a KQ most of the time.

And if it gets checked backed you don't mind that so much, since you got some extra value on turn when raised.

Posted almost 2 years ago

derover

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176 posts
Joined 05/2009

Improva,

At ~33:00 (AJ) , you say u pick up some EQ which allows you to barrel, but a bit later u also say that he should not be bluff catching that light. So if he calls, should you really barrel the river on bluffs? (i assume we're vbetting an A, Q, J)

Posted almost 2 years ago

StnBuddha70

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694 posts
Joined 05/2008

I was about to rewatch Ep5 and saw this. Downloading, while I run out for some coffee. Can't wait.

Posted almost 2 years ago

StnBuddha70

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694 posts
Joined 05/2008

Time Link to 00:19:53

Improva,

w K5s, in the 3 bet pot, after he (and everyone else) saw how the pot went down, what immediate adjustments do you make to your 3 bet range ?

Also, thanks for filling in.

Posted almost 2 years ago

StnBuddha70

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694 posts
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Time Link to 00:48:31

Hey Oliver,

You flopped a very strong hand against villain's utg range, and we just saw him get a bit overly aggressive, w 66, on table 2. Given the context, don't we want to apply pressure, and raise ?

Great vid :-)

Posted almost 2 years ago

StnBuddha70

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694 posts
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Btw, while you are going over our questions, should you feel inclined to go mp3 mode with a detailed answer, please indulge us.

Posted almost 2 years ago

Constantin

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124 posts
Joined 09/2008

Btw, while you are going over our questions, should you feel inclined to go mp3 mode with a detailed answer, please indulge us.



Half way through the video he mentioned that he will make a followup video with all our questions Wink

Paying attention ftw.

Posted almost 2 years ago

StnBuddha70

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694 posts
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Wygal

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168 posts
Joined 06/2009

Time Link to 00:30:28

Maybe just random nit picking...having a 6 in your hand wouldn't matter in this hand unless it was 69.

Posted almost 2 years ago

improva

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Coach
2670 posts
Joined 02/2008

Maybe just random nit picking...having a 6 in your hand wouldn't matter in this hand unless it was 69.



Not nit picking. I misread the board.

kvajebajer imo

Posted almost 2 years ago

Melville

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769 posts
Joined 02/2008

Time Link to 00:28:02

This is a great vid, tx for that, Improva.

Here you say that if you c-bet and you know you have to barrel villain a lot to get him of his weak hands, you c-bet quite small. But if villain reaches his point of honesty on the turn, wouldn't make sense to c-bet big on the flop and then barrel small on the turn?

Posted almost 2 years ago

beachbum

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102 posts
Joined 01/2008

Hey Oliver,

You flopped a very strong hand against villain's utg range, and we just saw him get a bit overly aggressive, w 66, on table 2. Given the context, don't we want to apply pressure, and raise ?

Great vid :-)



Oliver, if you're not raising TPMK + FD + 3-straight here, what hands are in your flop raising range? If you never raise combo draws, doesn't that leave the value part of your flop raising range unbalanced to sets and top 2 pair? If you flatted his UTG raise preflop with QQ or JJ here, would you raise?

Posted almost 2 years ago

improva

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Coach
2670 posts
Joined 02/2008

I will be recording the video response to your questions later today.

Posted almost 2 years ago

goldseraph

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Coach
1063 posts
Joined 03/2008

thanks for the vid enjoying it! question at 6:30 you raise table 1 button with 24o even tho you have pegged the SB as aggro pre and post. At same time on table two you fold J7o on the button - any reasoning or reads behind this?

Posted almost 2 years ago

villalobos

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6 posts
Joined 12/2009

A2s
DB seems pretty standard , but you say you have the plan to bet the river as a bluff if you miss. Number of things i would like to question here , i would expect him to fold most Tx to your large barrel. I wouldnt really expect him to fold that many Jx hands on the river , so can we not justify our barrel by the equity alone and plan to give up on the river if we miss?

Looking at combos for a rough idea its close
Hands calling - JQ,JK,JA = 33combos
Hands folding - KQ,89s,Q9s,AT = 31 combos

If he calls the turn with weaker Tx like KT or J9s hands that might fold river i guess its good. Vs a reg i can see a solid reason that we cant only bet here when we hit and never as a bluff but i just dont like the idea of triple barreling a bad player. I guess thats a leak in my game if i am always giving up here. We should given up on a Q,K , perhaps a 9 ?


Exactly my thoughts. But let say you didnt turn the nut equity card, but instead a gutter+overcard. Are you still barreling turn and a river brick?

Posted almost 2 years ago

Ulysses

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272 posts
Joined 07/2008

I really love this series, it improved my game like no other. However, I would like to see the concept of the red line a bit more worked out. I like that you did go back to it after the session, but it was pretty short. I would like to have you, Improva, and Grindcore as well, elaborate a bit more on some hands from the played session that really boosted the non-showdown winnings. What hands did you play differently from people with lower non-showdown winnings, and what situations should people look for if they want to raise their thin red line too. That would be great. Thanks for the series anyway, it's awesome!

Posted almost 2 years ago

Grindcore

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Coach
2156 posts
Joined 11/2008

Time Link to 00:17:18

The hand on the bottom left against the fish with the betsizing tell, I'd have called the river there because we also have a read that villain pots for value and halfpots as a bluff. This time he didn't halfpot the turn, he bet 1/3rd and called a raise, likely meaning a new handtype, thus very likely a draw (as we've seen value and air). There were 2 FDs on the turn, one missed on the river. There were also a few busted gutshots and QT missed. River he halfpots which he has shown being a bluff before, and him not potting the river also decreases the chances that he actually hit a draw. So getting 3:1 I think we should call. On top of that there might be valuable info in the showdown. You also say he's generally not bluffing the river, but I think a fish that autobets is pretty likely to be autobluffing busted draws like that.

Posted almost 2 years ago

Kgore

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66 posts
Joined 07/2008

Time Link to 00:11:42

with the boat on the bottom table, what do you think of a river cr? I think he's likely to get a Q and he'll have a hard time putting you on trips with your line..

Posted over 1 year ago

Kgore

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66 posts
Joined 07/2008

Time Link to 00:14:37

I don't think I agree with the read you made there. It's not because he bet folded the turn that he auto bets with air on a check behind imo. I think his fast fold could lead you to that conclusion, but I think a lot of people w/out a redraw can bet fold there with a QT type hand.

Posted over 1 year ago

Kgore

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66 posts
Joined 07/2008

You say he is repping a ten or a boat. If we were in his situation and playing against a laggy guy dont we bet AK for value?



Question*2
I vbet AK there. KQ is a bit thin.

Posted over 1 year ago



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