Joe Tall
6642 posts
Joined 11/2006
Time Link to 00:11:29
Stud 8: 9/9 hand here, standard fold, but to give some more to DJs follow up question, J/J here in what's to be a multiway pot, is mostly a fold. Really strong, live J/J, like QsJs/J+ with all spades live, you could play for a completion, or even just a limp, fit or folding 4th in some games when you know your opponents well. The problem with playing Mid-high pairs in Stud8 (TT-QQ) is you get scooped to often. You really need a perfect situation to get involved. We should be playing most K/K for a completion, but note, if the xx|A gets involved in anyway, all of the above hands are a fold.
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Joe Tall
6642 posts
Joined 11/2006
Joe Tall
6642 posts
Joined 11/2006
Time Link to 00:45:21
You should likely raise here, regardless of the short-stack.
1. He's raising his entire range on 3rd vs the bring w/xx|2 (so feel lucky he bet 4th)
2. You hit a partial scare card with live diamonds, xx|2d6d, so if he does still have air, you aren't going to find a bet on 5th, esp the 25% of the time you'll hit a diamond, plus the time you hit a Ace, King, etc and end up OOP and are forced to bet.
3. You should play most 4 flushes HU in position this, value/balance, play.
4. If they do actually have a hand, (esp since he has his full steal range and bet again on 4th, when you hit a improve-card) and you brick 5th, 62|2
6
â˜
, they'll donk anyway, and you get another raise in.
Posted over 2 years ago
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Joe Tall
6642 posts
Joined 11/2006
DJ Sensei
3025 posts
Joined 10/2007
Dan,
Say we know he'll bet the turn, and we are going to C/R. Just a speed drill here, pot is $72:
He bets $35 - we c/r to?
He bets $55 - we c/r to?
Thanks,
Joe
Probably on the more modest size both ways. He has to call the turn if he's going to call the business bet on the river, and we're not as concerned about draws since he checked back the flop. So if he bet 35 I'd make it 100 or so, if he bet 55 I'd make it 150. 2/3 pot or thereabouts on the river and we're good to go.
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Raist0000
168 posts
Joined 07/2007
DJ Sensei
3025 posts
Joined 10/2007
I think this value bet is too thin. He have to pat a 9 AND decide to call your river bet... I think most opponents with a 9 in that spot are going to try to draw to something better, not pat it. And you have one of the worst eights.
I disagree, I think its a pretty good valuebet. For one, we're beating a fair number of worse 8's (87642, 87652, 87643, 87653). Also, he will be checkraising most better 8's for value. And people just don't tend to fold on the river very often.
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dice
80 posts
Joined 12/2009
DJ Sensei
3025 posts
Joined 10/2007
at around 13:30, what's the reason to fold K45 club (5 showing)?
would you only play a 3 flush if all low or A45 in stud 8?
is it leaky to stay around to 5th with it if not much action?
thanks
We're folding there because we don't have a very good high hand or low hand. Yes its nice to have 3 clubs, but I think I'd rather have KQJccc than K54ccc because at least its a dominating high hand. Obviously we're opening for a steal, but once somebody else (showing a 5, no less) has opened, I think its best to just pitch it rather than try to get there one way. Make it 3 suited cards 8 or lower and its a fistpump call (or raise).
I'd probably play (AK)2 ccc or (K2)A ccc though [but not (A2)K], since those hands are much stronger both high and low (though still not super strong either way)
As for staying to 5th, I usually would unless my opponents caught good and I caught bad, or if I was in a multiway squeeze against a better high and a better low.
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