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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by BalugaWhale (Micro/Small Stakes)

Another good day on DC !

Time Link to 00:35:44

your 3betforvalue loosnes is discussed alot baluga

But i have a question. On the on side we get easyily money by catching toppair and he middle pair etc. but on the other side I think we need to 2 barrelbluff or even 3barrelbluff alot against this type of player to make it profitable.

Since 4 weeks i 3betforvalue as loose as you recomment and i am loosing here an example

I 3bet Q9s OOP and the flop is J64 and I cbet and turn is A we obv two barrels here and get called and river is a brick. then i check back villain shows me 65o

So against this type of player we can win but also loose a lot of money, because they are calling to much on two or threebarrels.

Wouldnt it be better to wait for better hands and tighten up the 3betrange?

your 3betforvalue loosnes is discussed alot baluga

But i have a question. On the on side we get easyily money by catching toppair and he middle pair etc. but on the other side I think we need to 2 barrelbluff or even 3barrelbluff alot against this type of player to make it profitable.

Since 4 weeks i 3betforvalue as loose as you recomment and i am loosing here an example

I 3bet Q9s OOP and the flop is J64 and I cbet and turn is A we obv two barrels here and get called and river is a brick. then i check back villain shows me 65o

So against this type of player we can win but also loose a lot of money, because they are calling to much on two or threebarrels.

Wouldnt it be better to wait for better hands and tighten up the 3betrange?

i think without a read of just how loosely your opponent calls turn, i think your example is played fine.

heres a good way to think about it: most weak players play fit-or-fold. If they don't make a pair or a draw, they fold (so c-betting is very good against them). However, when they do make a pair, they don't fold (so multi-street bluffing is usually not very good against them).

In the example you gave, I would have given up if the turn wasn't an A (which is usually a very good bluff card vs a fish). But, if the turn was anything other than an A, K, Q, T, or 9, I'm giving up on the hand. Maybe an 8 I'd barrel, its close.

Andrew

Time Link to 00:09:54

That's called Blalue(R)

i think without a read of just how loosely your opponent calls turn, i think your example is played fine.

heres a good way to think about it: most weak players play fit-or-fold. If they don't make a pair or a draw, they fold (so c-betting is very good against them). However, when they do make a pair, they don't fold (so multi-street bluffing is usually not very good against them).

In the example you gave, I would have given up if the turn wasn't an A (which is usually a very good bluff card vs a fish). But, if the turn was anything other than an A, K, Q, T, or 9, I'm giving up on the hand. Maybe an 8 I'd barrel, its close.

Andrew

What if we get shown something like KQo ? Should we plan on tightening our 3bet/cbet range, and go for cleaner value ?

What you call (thin) value with something like Q9s relies more on our post flop skills rather than the pure strenght of our hand. is that it ?

about 2 way bets: Isn't that working on his whole RANGE too. I mean we bluff one part of his range (wich beats us) and we value bet another part of it too ?

Time Link to 00:01:57

Baluga, one correction:

HeroPoker is a skin from the merge network. BadBeat poker doesn't exists. The guy is playing 4tables on HeroPoker, 1 is a normal table, the other 3 are badbeat jackpot tables. This is because merge doesn't has many normal tables. Donk's prefer to play in badbeats jackpot tables.

Baluga, one correction:

HeroPoker is a skin from the merge network. BadBeat poker doesn't exists. The guy is playing 4tables on HeroPoker, 1 is a normal table, the other 3 are badbeat jackpot tables. This is because merge doesn't has many normal tables. Donk's prefer to play in badbeats jackpot tables.

ah that makes sense. sorry for the confusion!

Andrew

Time Link to 00:28:43

Isn't your skill advantage lower when you move up though on average? (meaning you can play less hands profitably =>you should play tighter)

What if we get shown something like KQo ? Should we plan on tightening our 3bet/cbet range, and go for cleaner value ?

What you call (thin) value with something like Q9s relies more on our post flop skills rather than the pure strenght of our hand. is that it ?

about 2 way bets: Isn't that working on his whole RANGE too. I mean we bluff one part of his range (wich beats us) and we value bet another part of it too ?

this actually does work, though probably not the way youre thinking about it. We can't expect to bluff out a pair of tens but be called by a pair of nines. However, we can get value from things that have equity (draws, lets say) and bluff things off that don't have equity vs our range/can't improve (underpair to the board, lets say).

If we get shown KQ, that doesn't bother me-- i'll continue to 3bet him lightly and c-bet. if hes floating my flop cbets with K hi, I will double barrel him more/valuebet A hi on the flop.

Andrew

Time Link to 00:31:23

Gotcha! You are the DC guy tying variance to winrate. That is plain wrong in mathematical terms, long term variance has nothing to do with your winrate as far as I understand.

You should clarify that by variance you mean the poker created shorthand for the likelihood of a downswing, not the mathematical meaning of the word, you left a lot of people on DC confused

To illustrate
http://www.deucescracked.com/topics/420031-Question-about-variance-a?forum_id=4-General-Discussion&per_page=15

Time Link to 00:41:40

It's not about survival as much as valuing losses more than gains imo.
Close to 100% people think in this way which was well documented by experiments and subsequent creation of the prospect theory value function. Also see The Endowment effect for this which plays an important role (e.g. you give a cup to half of people in an experiment and you don't to another half, the people that did get the cup will overvalue it by large margin relative to the valuation of the people without the cup)

This is why so many poker players are miserable is my theory when they are breaking even/winning marginally. When you breakeven in poker you lose often and win often but you lose more utility when you lose $100 than you gain when you win $100. Some say this is the answer to the equity premium puzzle.

Time Link to 00:26:50

Hi Andrew.
Could you give more arguments and explain a little bit more why 3 betting JTo against this player type should be profitable? I am not sure if I am convinced. Thanks.

Hi Andrew.
Could you give more arguments and explain a little bit more why 3 betting JTo against this player type should be profitable? I am not sure if I am convinced. Thanks.

+1 I think we didn't confirm he is a fish yet did we? I'm usually worried about domination in this spot

Time Link to 00:27:19

We flatted AA against a 4bet. Against QQ and especially KK it probably doesn't matter that much because we'll stack them anyway but what if this guy has AK? He's going to hit flop ~25-30% of the time so we will have problems with stacking him off. Against JJ an overcard will hit the flop ~50% of the time. TT is in a worse shape. It's CO vs BTN so people might still stack off quite light in this spot.

Readless are you more inclined to call 4bet with AA early in the session or with some dynamics?
What are the reads that make calling 4bet more profitable than 5betting?
Is it your standard play in this particular situation? What would change you decision in favour of shipping it preflop?

Time Link to 00:29:42

@ 78s hand on table 4 (going to kill you today with my questions )
Don't you think it's bad to flat this against 19/16 on the button because his range for opening from MP is consisted of big cards mainly. So when he hits we miss and vice versa. It's fish in the blinds though so I guess calling can't be that bad but what if there wasn't? Would you prefer A5s or 78s in this spot and why?

Don't you think flop is a clear bet? He might call with worse and his range missed and he looks like giving up. We don't want to give free cards to a player who's giving up.

Gotcha! You are the DC guy tying variance to winrate. That is plain wrong in mathematical terms, long term variance has nothing to do with your winrate as far as I understand.

You should clarify that by variance you mean the poker created shorthand for the likelihood of a downswing, not the mathematical meaning of the word, you left a lot of people on DC confused

To illustrate
http://www.deucescracked.com/topics/420031-Question-about-variance-a?forum_id=4-General-Discussion&per_page=15

to quote what i mean from someone in that thread:

"What is true is that the higher the higher the winrate (given equal variance) the smaller the theoretically predicted downswings will be. "

Andrew

We flatted AA against a 4bet. Against QQ and especially KK it probably doesn't matter that much because we'll stack them anyway but what if this guy has AK? He's going to hit flop ~25-30% of the time so we will have problems with stacking him off. Against JJ an overcard will hit the flop ~50% of the time. TT is in a worse shape. It's CO vs BTN so people might still stack off quite light in this spot.

Readless are you more inclined to call 4bet with AA early in the session or with some dynamics?
What are the reads that make calling 4bet more profitable than 5betting?
Is it your standard play in this particular situation? What would change you decision in favour of shipping it preflop?

1) its hard to have AK when we have 2 aces
2) it depends how often the guy if bluffing. The more often he bluffs preflop, the better flatting is. The less likely he's bluffing preflop, the better raising is (provided he never folds a hand like AK or JJ to a shove, which we obv never expect he will).

in simpler terms: if hes more aggro, then flat, less aggro, then shove.

Andrew

Hi Andrew.
Could you give more arguments and explain a little bit more why 3 betting JTo against this player type should be profitable? I am not sure if I am convinced. Thanks.

i couldn't find the exact spot, but i think I understand your question so I'll try to respond anyway.

1) being dominated isn't a big deal so long as our opponent folds the best hand a lot (i.e. we 3bet JT, he flats with KJ, flop is 763 and he folds to a cbet).
2) if the guy is a weaker player, it becomes difficult for our opponents to play hands with him (protection of isolation)
3) calling it value is, as i said in the video, a bit of a misnomer-- we're really achieving a two way bet (when we bluff him off KJ on the 763 flop but we also get value from T9 on the T53 flop). Calling it a bluff would be more accurate in general than a valuebet, though it's a multi-street bluff where we want to get our opponent to call preflop and play fit/fold postflop.

hopefully that clarifies
Andrew

Time Link to 00:42:27

@ Table 1 with set
He bet 80% of the pot. Isn't it standard especially because his range here is composed mainly of AJ, KJ, QJs?

i couldn't find the exact spot, but i think I understand your question so I'll try to respond anyway.

1) being dominated isn't a big deal so long as our opponent folds the best hand a lot (i.e. we 3bet JT, he flats with KJ, flop is 763 and he folds to a cbet).
2) if the guy is a weaker player, it becomes difficult for our opponents to play hands with him (protection of isolation)
3) calling it value is, as i said in the video, a bit of a misnomer-- we're really achieving a two way bet (when we bluff him off KJ on the 763 flop but we also get value from T9 on the T53 flop). Calling it a bluff would be more accurate in general than a valuebet, though it's a multi-street bluff where we want to get our opponent to call preflop and play fit/fold postflop.

hopefully that clarifies
Andrew

I know understand what you meant by "two way bet" / multi-street bluff.

Given that, How do you adjust your cbetting strategy on different board textures ? I mean I often find myself not knowing if I should cbet or not because I think FE is greatly decrease in 3bet pot especially vs weak players / fishes. (it's not that easy to bluff those guy off there hands even as weak as KJ on 7 4 2)

"Ace High" here!

edit: Thanks for using my video! Will watch later!

I know understand what you meant by "two way bet" / multi-street bluff.

Given that, How do you adjust your cbetting strategy on different board textures ? I mean I often find myself not knowing if I should cbet or not because I think FE is greatly decrease in 3bet pot especially vs weak players / fishes. (it's not that easy to bluff those guy off there hands even as weak as KJ on 7 4 2)

vs fish without a read i usually c-bet once and then im done, with a read (like that he floats flop w K hi), ill probably fire 2

Andrew

Why is there such an emphasis on what we call our bet? Like 3betting a weaker player with Q9s, arguing whether or not we call it "value," "bluff," "two-way bet" etc seems futile--to me, the most accurate way to describe it is simply that it's +EV to 3bet. Given our assumptions about his tendencies and what we expect him to do with different parts of his range and how we will play later streets against him, making this raise is the most +EV line, so I raise. Why the need to find a label for it?

the words we use are important. they outline the path our brain takes to understanding a concept. and, when you say "this is the most + EV line", the follow up question will always be "why is it the most + EV line?" . To answer that question, you'll have to start using words like "value" or "bluffing". And, if you don't know "why" it's +EV, you run the risk of it actually NOT being +EV.

Andrew

the words we use are important. they outline the path our brain takes to understanding a concept. and, when you say "this is the most + EV line", the follow up question will always be "why is it the most + EV line?" . To answer that question, you'll have to start using words like "value" or "bluffing". And, if you don't know "why" it's +EV, you run the risk of it actually NOT being +EV.

Andrew

You're def one of the coaches that emphasis the most on this point.

You're def one of the coaches that emphasis the most on this point.

I really believe it.

Andrew

10:00, with the KK hand. Thoughts on our hand being face-up after x/calling? What other hands are you x/calling with there? What's our plan for a non-heart turn?

http://wimp.com/belugawhale/

hey guys-- need a high quality video for Episode 8, 4 tables (preferably of 200nl or 400nl, though at this point I would prob take anything ).

Send me a PM to get ahold of me.

Thx,
Andrew

Time Link to 00:01:12

Call him "Girah".

Time Link to 00:12:33

So even if you make mistakes later in the hand because of checking you still think checking is worse? My standard is to CB here, I used to Chk and call and get really owned a decent amount. Because im not sure how to proceed on the turn vs another bet, this obv is part of me not being as good of a hand reader as I should be but I do work on that, I should just prolly work harder with it.I think its probably cause I dont have a chk calling range on this board 3way or even HU thats probably another leak of mine to balance. So is that the trick to make these spots easier have a chk calling range here for value that way when you check call he cant just put you on a weak range ?If so what type of hands do you think is ok? My guess would be A9< and MPs. Let me know if thats reasonable... Thks alot and sorry for the long post.

Time Link to 00:55:27

So baluga what percentage does a 3B need to be before you can deffend AQ IP also KQ I used to deffend those alot and been doing some work with poker stove and even vs a 10% range we are about a flip with AQ. I understand vs a polarized range we call more with KQ but what do we do with hands like AJ,KQ,A10s vs a unknows range of like 10.5% assuming we have a healthy sample of hands on villian. Thank you. BTW watched your webinar on 3bets and loved it! Keep doing you man, We all appreciate it!

Time Link to 00:18:22

What do you think of checking in this difficult spot for the sake of seeing what he donk leads the turn with?If we fold him out, we learn nothing about his range in these spots

Time Link to 00:39:03

This is probably a super standard spot but w/e.
Table 1. We open the CO with KsQs and a call station with 40bb flats from SB. Flop comes 8hQdJd we cbet 50% and he min raises. What do you do? '
My thoughts are that we should cbet a lot bigger as he is a fish and will call all his draws, weaker Qs and some under pairs too and likely not differentiate between an 80% cbet and a 50%. However, once he raises I'm struggling to put him on a range as he seems quite passive running 25/4 but then again he is short and the board is wet. I guess in game I either flat here then ship any blank turn or just repop the flop now with 1psb left.

Time Link to 00:52:15

Bluff shove river hand.
Is there much difference between shipping the full 1.6x pot and say 1.2x pot?

This is probably a super standard spot but w/e.
Table 1. We open the CO with KsQs and a call station with 40bb flats from SB. Flop comes 8hQdJd we cbet 50% and he min raises. What do you do? '
My thoughts are that we should cbet a lot bigger as he is a fish and will call all his draws, weaker Qs and some under pairs too and likely not differentiate between an 80% cbet and a 50%. However, once he raises I'm struggling to put him on a range as he seems quite passive running 25/4 but then again he is short and the board is wet. I guess in game I either flat here then ship any blank turn or just repop the flop now with 1psb left.

1) agree with your point about betting flop bigger
2) would rather repop than let the board run out badly. I'd just ship the flop, he calls with obv QT/Q9 but often times people have weird things there (JT, AT, 98, etc.)

moral of that story is that flop raises =/= turn and river raises

Time Link to 00:39:33

What about raising everything here?
Then surely we still get folds with our junk (when he has junk) and if we raise here with regularity, are more likely to be called or raised by weaker (e.g. ax or a 4bet bluff) when we bet for value. Just a question....

What about raising everything here?
Then surely we still get folds with our junk (when he has junk) and if we raise here with regularity, are more likely to be called or raised by weaker (e.g. ax or a 4bet bluff) when we bet for value. Just a question....

what your describing occurs given two different contexts

part 1: We get a lot of folds, so we should bluff raise a lot.

part 2: He's seen us raise a lot, so he's going to call, so we should value bet a lot.

This is often how a relationship develops, though against weaker players we have a major problem with premise 1 ("we get a lot of folds" just isn't true).

Andrew

Time Link to 00:35:09

About the bad aggressive guy on the top left table.

Are you concluding from the earlier hand where he folded to a 2 barrel on an ace that he is peeling light on the flop and then often giving up on the turn?

I mean, are you even inclinded to barrel dry board, where no "scare card" hits on the turn against him? And if so I assume your overall plan against this guy is to 3 bet a lot and then fire many flop- and turnbarrels?