Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by sthief09 (Micro/Small Stakes)

first, i'm about to watch it, love the title!!

I thought Ghost vids were supposed to be live play

Josh,

did you manually remove the "$" from the handhistories (I don't assume this is playmoney but it looks weird)

Time Link to 00:17:52

so why did he get shipped the pot?

Josh,

did you manually remove the "$" from the handhistories (I don't assume this is playmoney but it looks weird)

I'm not sure why that happened. The only thing I changed was the screen names. It does look a little awkward. I haven't used the Popopop replayed in awhile so I'm not sure.

so why did he get shipped the pot?

Glitch maybe? I promise I didn't alter any of the hand histories aside from removing the screen names.

I enjoyed the good strategy lesson in this video.
Also your segment on positional awareness was very enlightening.

Dollar amounts can get screwed up in the replayer, and also the stack gets shipped in a weird manner. It's no glitch or error on your side, it's just how popopop behaves some times. But that didn't really bother me.

Glitch maybe? I promise I didn't alter any of the hand histories aside from removing the screen names.

That's actually a thing that the popopop player does. It puts the pot on the table close to the person who's all in (guess it does that to distinguish between side pots).

Time Link to 00:17:01

To actually add something strategy wise:

I'm a huge fan of isolating these tards with a lot of hands (more hands than most other people).

BUT:
I disagree with you in this hand. You say something about "way ahead of his opening range". I don't know man. Let's say he opens 100% of his range (which he doesn't). Then you're just under a 60/40 favourite. On top of that your playability sucks and you certainly won't flop top trips every hand, so given the fact that he's willing to stack off on AAX with Q7o you'll either have to stack of with A-hi a lot vs him or check the hand down for SD value, along the way giving him freecards to his 6outer or calling bets on the turn and river (more likely imo).

Hands that can flop a bit more equity-dynamic stuff are way better than Axo

To actually add something strategy wise:

I'm a huge fan of isolating these tards with a lot of hands (more hands than most other people).

BUT:
I disagree with you in this hand. You say something about "way ahead of his opening range". I don't know man. Let's say he opens 100% of his range (which he doesn't). Then you're just under a 60/40 favourite. On top of that your playability sucks and you certainly won't flop top trips every hand, so given the fact that he's willing to stack off on AAX with Q7o you'll either have to stack of with A-hi a lot vs him or check the hand down for SD value, along the way giving him freecards to his 6outer or calling bets on the turn and river (more likely imo).

Hands that can flop a bit more equity-dynamic stuff are way better than Axo

Way ahead was certainly an overstatement, but it's also not a requirement when 3-betting a bad player. Even if I'm a small dog to his calling range, I like a 3-bet here (as opposed to folding) because I have position and I've gotten it hu against a spaz. At the time, I expected him to fold some flops, but apparently that's not the case.

I don't think the playability is so bad at all. He's a LAG and I'm not forced into bluffing him like I would if I had something like T9s (a hand I'd probably flat him with). I can sometimes play in a manner that gets me to showdown, and I'm willing to make some hero calls with A-high. When I flop an A, I'm very happy against this type of loose, spewy player. When I flop an 8 I'm also willing to put plenty of chips in, even when it's not top pair.

Regarding giving a free card to 6 outs, if I do that it's because I'm planning on calling future bets (and it also means I got him to put in lots of money preflop with a worse hand). I probably would've chosen to c-bet a dry flop, and probably would have had to fold to a raise if I missed the flop. So I would've gotten owned. I'll give you that. But I didn't know that he was so crazy postflop at the time. I mentioned this in the video and in the above paragraph, but I did expect to take it down on the flop sometimes.

Hands that can flop a bit more equity-dynamic stuff are way better than Axo

If you mean KTs, I agree entirely and would 3-bet that hand just about every time vs. a player like this. If you mean T8s I don't agree. I don't want to be in a position where I'm making big bluffs against a player like this with T-high or a gutter. Even a flush draw or OESD loses some of its value with diminished fold equity.

If my call button was broken, I'd be ok with 3-betting T8s. But I do prefer calling and taking a flop in position against these players, barring any habitual squeezers behind me. With A8o, I'm not willing to flat his raise, so I chose to 3-bet.

Sorry that this post was all over the place. I guess I'm not completely understanding your argument. I agree there are better, non-premium hands to do this with. But this was an example of doing something that's a bit unorthadox, and I happened to be dealt A8o in this situation. Do you think this 3-bet is -EV? As you know, I don't but I admit it's somewhat thin. Hopefully this disjointed post at least went into depth about why I feel it's a +EV 3-bet with A8o.


Obligatory (for my posts) Stove sim:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.168% 43.02% 02.15% 2422082400 120907848.00 { A8o }
Hand 1: 54.832% 52.68% 02.15% 2966157456 120907848.00 { 22+, A2s+, K7s+, Q8s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

I think this is a reasonable calling range for a LAG (note that it doesn't even include Q7o). Considering I've got advantages in skill, position, and initiative not to mention fold equity pre-flop, I like the situation.

OK,

I kinda have the feeling my reply wil be a bit "all over the place" aswell. I'll try and keep it as structured as possible.

With A8o you're gonna flop a pair (if you flop anything), and if you flop a pair, it's going to be a pair on the river more often than not. Well, you understand the difference between equity-static and equity-dynamic so that explanation is probably redundant (did you not even coin these terms?)

So, how am I gonna word that?

He was an unknown spazz/maniac/aggressive recreational player (however you wanna word that and however PC you wanna be). We all know from experience that these guys have a few things in common but can do totally random stuff at any point in time.
The two of us are certainly on the same page when it comes to hands like KTs, and I wouldbn't go so far as to 3bet isolate them with like 54s, but T9s kinda hands (even T8s to use your example) carry enough highcard value to feel kinda comfortable when we flop a pair, and on top of it all they will allow us to flop enough "dynamic" equity to actually see a showdown more often than we are able to with A8-hi vs random spazz-outs by these guys postflop.
That'll give us a chance to get a better feeling for their game and enables us to play more profitably in the future. In my experience these guys aren't here to win a few bucks and then rathole them. They've got something to prove and so they'll stick to the table longer on average than the loose passives. That's why gathering some info on them is gonna be beneficial for us (especially when we got the socalled "Jesus Seat" on them).

We're gonna flop a pair just as often with T8s as we are with A8o. Granted, the T8s pairs will on average be not as strong as the A8o ones but if you're willing to go all the way with 2ndPTK (as you stated above), then getting it in with 2nd pair + gutter + BDFD should give us approximately the same equity due to the dynamic equity the hand brings with it.

The more I think about it (while typing), the more I guess our two different approaches aren't too far apart from each other equity wise. Just the equity will come from different "directions" so to speak.

Time Link to 00:51:36

Flop: ($12.00) 6c Kd Jd (4 players)
check, check, Hero bets $8, BTN raises to $35.50 all in, fold, fold, Hero ?

Good vid, just added the last part of the hand from the forums, it wasn't visible in the video. I like this sort of format and would be interested to see more takes on how positional situations influence ranges.

For instance, when our UTG range opens up because there are one or two loose passive players in the blinds, how do good regulars that have position on you influence your range there, given that they will flat a wider range, expecting to be in position with the fish in a multiway pot? You will be forced to play more straightforwardly postflop because you'll have to worry about a reg having position on you. Or do you think these kinds of multiway spots will make regs less likely to bluffraise you because they will in turn have to worry about the loosepassive player from the blinds check/calling their flopraise light?

So with tight players behind, I favor opening up my UTG range considerably, but with good regs being able to maneuver in postflop spots and sometimes bad regs 3betting you postflop (shutting the fish out of the pot). What would be your approach to this? Are you willing to narrow your UTG and possibly MP range because of regs using their position on you, thereby decreasing postflop difficulties but also decreasing the amount of pots that you're going to have to give up on postflop?

UTG Hero, CO TAG, MP TAG, CO Good Reg, BTN TAG, SB LP (deep), BB LP
UTG LP, CO Hero, MP TAG, CO TAG, BTN Good Reg, SB TAG, BB LP (deep)
UTG LP (deep), CO LP, MP Hero, CO TAG, BTN TAG, SB Good Reg, BB TAG

The more I think about it (while typing), the more I guess our two different approaches aren't too far apart from each other equity wise. Just the equity will come from different "directions" so to speak.

I think so too. However, since it's a small stack-to-pot ratio situation I put much more of a stress on hot-and-cold equity. A8o performs a good amount better than T8s. I think playability is somewhat overstated in a spot where you don't have as much post-flop fold equity due to short stacks relative to pot, and in this case a loose villain. Also consider that top pair of As will have significantly more equity than top pair of Ts, in addition to As being top pair more often. But for the most part we are in agreement. For me, the biggest factor is probably that I think calling T8s > 3-betting. I don't think it's necessarily a bad 3-betting hand.



equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.457% 50.41% 03.04% 3117981924 188257866.00 { 22+, A3s+, K7s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 1: 46.543% 43.50% 03.04% 2690344392 188257866.00 { A8o }


equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 61.338% 60.11% 01.22% 1284611944 26156058.00 { 22+, A3s+, K7s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 1: 38.662% 37.44% 01.22% 800031332 26156058.00 { T8s }

Good vid, just added the last part of the hand from the forums, it wasn't visible in the video. I like this sort of format and would be interested to see more takes on how positional situations influence ranges.

For instance, when our UTG range opens up because there are one or two loose passive players in the blinds, how do good regulars that have position on you influence your range there, given that they will flat a wider range, expecting to be in position with the fish in a multiway pot? You will be forced to play more straightforwardly postflop because you'll have to worry about a reg having position on you. Or do you think these kinds of multiway spots will make regs less likely to bluffraise you because they will in turn have to worry about the loosepassive player from the blinds check/calling their flopraise light?

So with tight players behind, I favor opening up my UTG range considerably, but with good regs being able to maneuver in postflop spots and sometimes bad regs 3betting you postflop (shutting the fish out of the pot). What would be your approach to this? Are you willing to narrow your UTG and possibly MP range because of regs using their position on you, thereby decreasing postflop difficulties but also decreasing the amount of pots that you're going to have to give up on postflop?

UTG Hero, CO TAG, MP TAG, CO Good Reg, BTN TAG, SB LP (deep), BB LP
UTG LP, CO Hero, MP TAG, CO TAG, BTN Good Reg, SB TAG, BB LP (deep)
UTG LP (deep), CO LP, MP Hero, CO TAG, BTN TAG, SB Good Reg, BB TAG

Thanks for posting the flop action.

I think your observations are excellent. Tough players certainly will flat more hands when they know there's a fish in the blinds. When the fish folds, you find yourself OOP vs. an aggressive player with a weakish hand. When the fish calls, it's not such a bad spot because the player in position loses much of his ability to float the flop. Still, it's much better to raise light when tight, straightforward players have position on you.

Time Link to 00:40:01

is it just me or everytime someone has kk, the other has jj? i dunno... just seeing it a lot lately

Hey Josh,

Love the idea for this series and am looking forward to seeing more!

I have a HH here that I played different than I usually do because there was a weak player that I wanted to keep in the pot.

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/358548--0-50-1-No-Limit-Hold-em-6-max-played-at-Full-Tilt-Poker

Weak player is UTG, and normally I would raise it on the flop because of the potential draws out there. Do you think this is a good spot to just call and keep the weak player in, or am I just giving him too good of odds here?

is it just me or everytime someone has kk, the other has jj? i dunno... just seeing it a lot lately

nice avatar. brings back memories.

Hey Josh,

Love the idea for this series and am looking forward to seeing more!

I have a HH here that I played different than I usually do because there was a weak player that I wanted to keep in the pot.

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/358548--0-50-1-No-Limit-Hold-em-6-max-played-at-Full-Tilt-Poker

Weak player is UTG, and normally I would raise it on the flop because of the potential draws out there. Do you think this is a good spot to just call and keep the weak player in, or am I just giving him too good of odds here?

This is actually just a standalone vid, and there won't be a full series about this. Sorry if I was unclear in the video.

I absolutely agree with just calling the flop there to keep the weak player in. An interesting side effect to just calling there is that you might confuse the TAG. He might expect you to raise a strong hand because of the draws, and if he has an overpair or turns top pair he might underestimate your range as a result. You may be giving the 3rd player good odds for a flush draw, but he'll draw to many hands with almost 0 equity, like bottom pair, overcards, backdoor flush draw, A high, etc. So for many reasons it makes sense to just call the flop there, and fortunately it paid off for you greatly.

Time Link to 00:19:12

Can you tell little more about your flatcalling range when there is a fish with full stack in BB? Let's say we normallu 3-bet bunch of broadways against TAG when there is no fish in BB. Would it be good idea to 3-bet still most offsuit broadways and flat suited ones as these do play better in multiway pots?

Can you tell little more about your flatcalling range when there is a fish with full stack in BB? Let's say we normallu 3-bet bunch of broadways against TAG when there is no fish in BB. Would it be good idea to 3-bet still most offsuit broadways and flat suited ones as these do play better in multiway pots?

Yes, definitely flat your suited broadways. I'd also probably flat the offsuit broadways. Some of it depends on just how bad the fish in the blinds is. If he's truly awful then I'd flat all my quality hands, and occasionally 3-bet some trash. If the open raiser is a losing TAG and the fish isn't too loose then you can mix it up, but I'd still tend to flat the suited broadway cards. It's definitely not black and white. Fish and TAGs can vary so much in looseness, aggressiveness, and overall skill.

Time Link to 00:30:31

with KJhi on T64cc3x3x if you reason he would bet with A5hi instead of showing it down, why are you just calling here and not raising?
if he bets a pair (T,6,4) is he ever folding given your line(raise/bet/bet/ch/raise)?

are we too deep to shove here? if you had JJ+ it may increase the calling frequency of Tx on a board runout like this so you could CONCEIVABLY represent a strong hand by ch/r here..

with KJhi on T64cc3x3x if you reason he would bet with A5hi instead of showing it down, why are you just calling here and not raising?
if he bets a pair (T,6,4) is he ever folding given your line(raise/bet/bet/ch/raise)?

are we too deep to shove here? if you had JJ+ it may increase the calling frequency of Tx on a board runout like this so you could CONCEIVABLY represent a strong hand by ch/r here..

I've gotten owned by fish enough over the years to not try taking them off pairs. A call only has to work 22-23%, whereas a shove has to work 50%. I don't think a few A-high hands are enough to bridge that gap.

I think all in all the hands you picked out for this video are all very straightforward play either going for thin value or calling down obvious draw bets by the villains. I have to say it is not that good video at all because most of the hands are versus very bad loose weak player. They almost never reraise, they almost never bet huge or go out of line to put YOU at a test. They are extremely bad and for that the video does not bring a lot of value, the hands mostly play for themselves. I mean they never have anything, not even a pair and a draw, instead they have like gutshot draw on paired and flushed board (like the one with 45o) or they bet 39s (I mean who the hell bets two pair there and then calls an allin on the river?). Not to mention the Q7o, I thought, what the heck?? Also the A8o reraise from early is somewhat spewwy from your side too, as the posters above posted also and I agree with them. Hand would be so interesting if there was someone on the button who decides to call your raise - you would probably get so owned there with a marginal hand like A8o.

Also, the last time I played on Party there were no such players - so where do you find them?

For the next video please pick some tougher hands, tougher spots..

I think all in all the hands you picked out for this video are all very straightforward play either going for thin value or calling down obvious draw bets by the villains. I have to say it is not that good video at all because most of the hands are versus very bad loose weak player. They almost never reraise, they almost never bet huge or go out of line to put YOU at a test. They are extremely bad and for that the video does not bring a lot of value, the hands mostly play for themselves. I mean they never have anything, not even a pair and a draw, instead they have like gutshot draw on paired and flushed board (like the one with 45o) or they bet 39s (I mean who the hell bets two pair there and then calls an allin on the river?). Not to mention the Q7o, I thought, what the heck?? Also the A8o reraise from early is somewhat spewwy from your side too, as the posters above posted also and I agree with them. Hand would be so interesting if there was someone on the button who decides to call your raise - you would probably get so owned there with a marginal hand like A8o.

Also, the last time I played on Party there were no such players - so where do you find them?

For the next video please pick some tougher hands, tougher spots..

Thanks for the feedback. I think you might be missing my point with the hand examples (not your fault. Mine for not getting that across to you). First off, these hands are against fish. This is how fish play, whether it's Party Poker, Full Tilt, iPoker, Stars (where these hands are from), etc. I believe I mentioned this, but these hands occurred during 4k hands I played for this video. So the 93s example (which was to point out implied odds), the Q7o example, and 54o hand are all real hands that happened. If you're playing 1/2 on Party, I guarantee these players are out there.

I didn't think the hand examples were very interesting by themselves. Usually if I do a video with hand examples I think are interesting, I'll talk about them in-depth and get through about 8 in an hour. For this video there were 18 hands that spanned over the final 45 minutes of the video. The purpose of the hands in this video were to illustrate some of the points I was making. As you state, they were mostly played in a standard fashion.

Regarding the A8o, I stand by that 3-bet. You're stating that fish in your games don't do stupid things as they did in these hands. You're either playing much higher stakes or potentially not giving them a reason to do stupid things against you. The point of this video was to show you how you can get involved in lots of pots against them, how to play aggressively vs. them, and eventually cause them to snap as they did in a few of the hands in this.

I'd be happy to discuss this further if you'd like. I wasn't able to be too specific since you were talking about the video as a whole.

Ok, this is nice response, I agree I must be missing some of the spots where I could gain more profit. I agree that those spots should probably involve much marginal hands. I must admit that after reviewing these hands again you did play them much better than I would. I often have a problem playing for stacks with marginal hands. I am able to get 2 or 3 streets of value but by that I mean thin value, small bets. Not big bets or allins like you manage to do, which I think is great if you are capable of doing that.

With regards to the A8 hand - how would you play it if it was just one Ace on board? I mean, flop giving you trip aces, is great and lowers his chances of having an ace hugely. But given there was only one ace the spot would probably be tougher. Thats why I like to stick with a range A9s+, sometimes even ATs+. A8 cost me so much so far, it does not connect well with wheel boards or with top straight boards so I'm just dumping it 99% of the time.

supernuts28, one thing to consider is that if both players have Ax, the odds of them both flopping that ace are the same as the odds of flopping a set. a lot of the profit from 3-bet isolating fish with weak hands like A8 comes from the times we both miss the flop, but we are able to c-bet in position and pick up the dead money. its important you understand this imo because that is where a ton of the profit comes from; not necessarily from you outflopping your opponent. understanding this concept will really help you figure out spots where you can pick up passive dead money, IMO. remember that when we c-bet and barrel, we are usually trying to fold out the extremely weak parts of our opponents range.

Time Link to 00:40:07

on the KK hand. I was always under the assumption that when a bad passive player raises you should be scared. Do you not think that villain has a lot of sets in his range (which is a full house)? or trips with the 8? I mean if this is an aggressive bad fish then i would call here all day but if he is a passive fish would you fold to his turn shove or still call?

Time Link to 00:37:18

When this 8 pairs isn't there some merit in checking and letting him bet his missed club draw or A high on the river? One thing about loose passives is that although they lack aggression, they will bet the river when they finally have no other shot at winning.

When this 8 pairs isn't there some merit in checking and letting him bet his missed club draw or A high on the river? One thing about loose passives is that although they lack aggression, they will bet the river when they finally have no other shot at winning.

I agree with the last part, and I think this is heavily dependent on the stacks. With 1 PSB behind, it makes sense to do this. With 4 PSB behind, it's necessary to bet and give yourself a shot at stacks. Here, in between, you can definitely make an argument for checking though I tend to try to get max value since there are a lot of hands that will call/call turn/river.