Poker Video: Omaha/Omaha 8 by danzasmack (Micro/Small Stakes)

Time Link to 00:06:16

wanting me to bet the flop assuming villain has paired his deuce - i take it we are assuming he would be cbetting if he had an A3, and it's unlikely he has an A4 based on the pf combos you talked about, so i'm basically betting for value/freeroll, holding the likely best low hand and maybe creating some fold equity, fake outs, whatever, for the high? Or I could already have the best high hand and get him to fold a hand with some overcards in it on the turn or something

Is anyone really folding A2xx here if we bet? They're getting a good price to hit an ace, deuce, or side card on the turn it seems like

Time Link to 00:12:21

i like your comment here. when something goes like it's "supposed to" early in a session i definitely don't take note of it as often (and really this applies at any point in a session) as when something doesn't go as i would like it to, or if something happens in a hand between two other players. may have just discovered a leak in my note-taking - i should definitely be able to draw some conclusions about this guy's button limping range based on the last couple hands, and adjust accordingly in the next several hands as far as what board textures i'm attacking vs not attacking, etc

Time Link to 00:14:30

on the right, i feel like i might have folded a lot of other turn cards (since this one is decent and gives me overs + nut gut) - thoughts?

Time Link to 00:15:16

you say it's normal to raise a flush draw on this flop vs a donk bet - i haven't been doing that - is it something i should start doing? i sometimes get into this holdem balance mentality where i call the flop with my whole continuing range planning to raise a lot of turns or whatever.

my first thought was that my (hypothetical) flush draw doesn't have an equity advantage here on the flop vs a donking range of 9x, tx, and straight and flush draws. but then once you say he can have bluffs in his range, i don't really mind taking it down right away vs those, or on the turn, and even if he does have something decent i have some equity - is that the main reason for raising the flop then with a flush draw?

just in general i struggle some with flop calling ranges vs flop raising ranges

Time Link to 00:16:21

not sure why i didn't have auto-post on tbh. as far as i can tell, o8 is more heavily raked than lhe of the same stake, and 1/2 lhe huhu is not beatable due to rake, so i have just been assuming that 1/2 o8 huhu is also unbeatable. so, i'm playing it at 1/2 to get experience (and because i'm not keeping much $ online) , and not really game selecting all that much. if i get up to higher stakes (or even 2/4+ where i assume it's beatable, like lhe) then i would start to game select more, yes

can some o8 guys check their databases to see what average rake paid is for hu, 6m, fr, etc? would be appreciated - thanks

Time Link to 00:18:46

as far as preflop - honestly i still have a bit of trouble evaluating some of the "meh" hands' starting strengths. like obviously aa23 and its ilk (big pair + 2 good low) are great, and 9999 (quads) is horrible, and a347 stuff (four good low) is good, and 5558 (trips) is bad. and closer in toward the middle 23qj is okay and so is 3458 and so is kqj9. but right off the top of my head i'm not always sure which hands in which "buckets" are better than other hands...like is kj94 with a suit better than q876 rainbow? what about qqjj vs j642? obviously being in position vs out of position is an advantage, and since it's a split pot game it'd seem like hands that can make a reasonable low are often desirable. as in holdem, playability seems very important. but then we get into hands that make bad lows, which are traps, and so on.

any chance we can make some sort of hierarchy of the "buckets"? ie (and i know this is not right, i'm just listing buckets)

high dangler + 3 low cards > low dangler + 3 high cards > two high two low > two high pairs > two low pairs... and so on

Time Link to 00:20:27

this is neat - the betting a strong/weak hand targeting the weak other side of the villain's hand. i hadn't heard it expressed this concisely before. kind of analogous to bet/fold being better than check/call in a lot of lhe spots? except this is a split pot game so i guess we'd have to bet/call a lot on the river, which is kinda yucky but at the same time we're not that worried about getting scooped given that the turn got checked back

Time Link to 00:21:42

better to fold the q544 pf?

Time Link to 00:25:56

for the turn bet i was thinking it was for value against low draws...?

Time Link to 00:34:06

is it legitimate/an oversimplification/other to say that when you have a hand on the river that's okay in both directions, or meh in both directions like here, that it's better to bet it than not, in the hope that good things happen? i see in this spot you're talking about him maybe folding a better high, for example, and this theme has come up before

basically 'it's unlikely we get scooped/quartered, so may as well bet to try and make him make a mistake'?

Time Link to 00:36:18

agree that this is a contradiction. i'm a little unsure on the hierarchy of three card hands, i guess. i'd been opening stuff like t843 and you'd commented that those were close, and i guess i assumed that those types of hands are better than kjt4 types of hands, since we can make a low with the former and not with the latter. am i off base there? i think you said a low is possible in about 60% of hands (am i making that up? i feel like you said it once or i read it somewhere), so do high-ish type hands go up in value hu, since we're more often scooping or chopping with one decent pair?

Time Link to 00:41:54

i wasn't sure about the flop play here. it seems like the kind of flop people bluff at, although this guy's been very passive. plus i have a backdoor low.

Time Link to 00:43:02

fwiw i don't think i've been flop screwplayed yet in the merge 1/2 game, and definitely not hu. i guess it's more common with trickier players or at higher stakes for balance? or maybe with really bad fps-y players at any stakes...this guy has just seemed mostly passive bad so far

Time Link to 00:47:14

very diplomatic of you i'm worried about my weaker points too, hehe

thanks for the review! nice vid (imho)

I havent actually watched the vid, but in regards to the which dangler is better argument, my feelings are that 3 high 1 low is gonna be better. its really tough to make a strong high hand with 3 badish low cards and have a chance at scooping, and any lows will have RIO. compare that to the 3 high cards where we can make strong (even nut) high hands that will get at least half alot, or else we just otf and invest very little. so in your example i would take both KJ94 and QQJJ in alot of situations, but the former probably mostly as a steal or a bb defense vs a steal. id be pretty happy playing QQJJ in a ton of spots too, and big MW pots will be pretty damn good i think. basically i think the value of making a really bad low may not be good enough to make up for diminishing our chances at making a really good high.

I dont play much O8 though, and i could be way off

Time Link to 00:20:24

this is neat - the betting a strong/weak hand targeting the weak other side of the villain's hand. i hadn't heard it expressed this concisely before. kind of analogous to bet/fold being better than check/call in a lot of lhe spots? except this is a split pot game so i guess we'd have to bet/call a lot on the river, which is kinda yucky but at the same time we're not that worried about getting scooped given that the turn got checked back

Whoa, agreed. Pretty eye opening analysis for me at least.