Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by FenderJaguar (Mid Stakes)

good to see a video from Boss with the guys I play with on a daily basis

btw. CivSTAR sounds like Bruno

Looking back at that K9o hand vs. an unknown TAG opponent that can be a 1 street hand, not 2 necessarily. I also like checking the flop back more vs. that opponent because you get more information on the turn. It's definitely an interesting hand though, lots of discussion to be had!

Time Link to 00:18:51

i think this is a clear fold,like u said theres no history to prove that he is making a hero play on us..just weird i think him calling down then shoving must be for fat value cause he cant have a good read on our value/bluffing range no need to level ourselves into hero calling

btw. CivSTAR sounds like Bruno

I guess you don't mean Bruno Mars

Looking back at that K9o hand vs. an unknown TAG opponent that can be a 1 street hand, not 2 necessarily. I also like checking the flop back more vs. that opponent because you get more information on the turn. It's definitely an interesting hand though, lots of discussion to be had!

let's say we cb flop and turn is the Qx like in this hand. what range do you think an unknown TAG opponent:

a) bets
b) checks

with in general (and don't write "it depends" )?

why don't you tell me what you think an unknown TAG bets or checks with?

the problem is that I don't really see why we should cb this flop if he goes for a c/f >90% of the time and if he decides to go for a c/c with like AJ/AT, we are actually vbetting and getting 1 street of value, but if we cb flop we like always have a hand with SD value and he shouldn't call us on the turn with AJ anymore.

so if we have SD value, he should bet every hand that has at least 9x beat on the turn, because we call at least 1 street or he should expect us to call at least one street, because if we cb we want to give him the chance to a) catch a weaker hand/draw that can aa) call us ab) bet into us or b) to bluff us

The overall problem is that I don't think he checks like 76s on the flop, I think he should be more likely to cbet/giveup, so in order to get aa) or ab) he must have a weak enough range which I don't think he has often enough.

We only benefit by not losing if he slowplays/potcontrols a hand like QT/JJ, but if he calls us on the flop with like AJ/AT/88, we should bet, because now we have a vbet against his range.

So overall I don't feel this is a board we should cb on with a 9x hand, even so it makes a lot of sense to cb with a Qx+ hand.

But I think you are right that we can only go for one street with our hand here and like I said, I think this is the flop and not the turn (unless there is a lot of history going on^^)

Time Link to 00:34:07

really disagree with 4b/calling AQ for the reasons you mention. if he 5b bluffs a lot of random crap like 97s, great, but you focus on small pairs. we have a huge postflop edge on these hands (IP, the % of flops they 'like' is v low) and a preflop equity disadvantage. i think we can certainly increase our 4b/call range (and i also think it's a mistake to 4b bluff at a high clip v most players in 2011), but AQ doesn't need to be candidate #1 for joining that range.

as far as postflop: i'd welcome his aggression. AQ plays well v random shit middle gappers and whatnot or any 10-15% 3b range. take on some tough spots. i think if you're not comfortable dealing with two barrels you need to just get down and dirty more.

When I'm mentioning pairs there I don't mean just those, or even mostly those. Just that they're a common starting point. Obviously if it was just pairs and we knew it, it's not like we're tapdancin' to flip.

Sure AQ doesn't have to be #1 but it's in the group of hands I'm likely to open my 4b range to. That's not to say I never flat call etc. Just here vs. this specific guy w/the reads Stefan has I'm not a big fan of knowing I'm facing a lot of barrels and knowing I'm going to have to call down light when I can definitely 4b call w/no guessing and I can most likely get worse to ship vs. a lot of villains (depending obv). I would be likely to slowplay vs. this player some % of the time because of his crazy barreling. That being said if the situation were like this, where it's a great time for him to 5b bluff jam if he's that guy, I'd prob still be 4b'ing big pairs. If you're not just going to call down with AQ, and you plan on bluffraising somewhere, I'm much happier flatting, and if there's no 5b light dynamic I'm more likely to flat as well. I'm not just putting it in with AQ cause I got 3b a couple of times. I disagree that it's a mistake to 4b bluff at a high clip vs. most players in 2011, but I do agree that a lot more players are comfortable in this "battle" and have better counters than they used to. That being said I still take it person to person.

You may welcome his aggression but you must agree that it's still not easy bluffcatching with A high vs. a guy barreling a lot, as described etc. You can still get screwed by his bluffing hands that are ahead of your bluffcatcher. I would rather have a bit more experience or have observed him a bit better to know what he may consider showdown value, when he stops bluffing, what boards he likes to barrel off on, what level of thinking he has, maybe he thinks I'm call/call/folding too much or something. You know what I mean. I definitely don't agree with avoiding difficult spots, I just think in this one I prefer the preflop activity.

@CivSTAR If you can't ever get called by worse on the turn if you check the flop, you have a new line for bluffing vs. this guy A lot of the hands that beat 9x probably would have bet the flop, save for his slowplays/balance/pot control lines. Obviously he can vb the turn and put you generically on a showdown hand, but from there it's all up in the air. Does he expect you to fold the river, is he planning on barreling the river or giving up and with what range? (when he bets the turn) What about you raising his bet somewhere? There's a lot of ways it can play out.

Lets say you bet the flop and checked the turn like you mentioned, one street style. What are you doing on various rivers? If he checks? If he bets? Should be thinking about this when deciding to bet the flop or not. Since rarely will you be c/c-donked into lol.

@CivSTAR If you can't ever get called by worse on the turn if you check the flop, you have a new line for bluffing vs. this guy A lot of the hands that beat 9x probably would have bet the flop, save for his slowplays/balance/pot control lines. Obviously he can vb the turn and put you generically on a showdown hand, but from there it's all up in the air. Does he expect you to fold the river, is he planning on barreling the river or giving up and with what range? (when he bets the turn) What about you raising his bet somewhere? There's a lot of ways it can play out.

Lets say you bet the flop and checked the turn like you mentioned, one street style. What are you doing on various rivers? If he checks? If he bets? Should be thinking about this when deciding to bet the flop or not. Since rarely will you be c/c-donked into lol.

I mean, that's why I asked you to give me a range he is checking the flop with and what he is doing with it on the turn, would make the discussion easier Especially, because I like never cb a hand like K9 in this spot, so I have no idea what my opponents are doing with which part of their range.

I think his range is like AJ/AT type hands (sometimes even a lot more Ax), slowplayed/potcontolled hands like QT/JJ/TT/88/A9(/T9), and that's like it tbh. Like I said, a hand like 76s he is just cbetting/giveup unless he hits a card he can continue barreling on or if he checks with it, he just plays c/f, so like I said, most of the time we get him to fold on the flop anyway.

If he calls us with worse hands on the turn, don't you think he is also likely to call with the same range and(!) even a wider range on the flop? So I think we should bet now when we have a vbet vs him and not having to play a guessing game if a A/Q/J/T/8 falls. If he would call us with ~88 type of hand on the flop, I think he won't be as likely to call with it on the turn if an overcard comes. If he has a hand like ~AJ we are vbetting the flop and he might fold some turns with it once we checked back

If we say our hand is a 1 street hand, we are obv folding to his river bet. Exploitable? Of course! But we are playing against an unknown TAG, and like you said, if he c/c-donks it is rarely a bluff. So without history we don't need to think about calling. We don't know him, so we can't really say what he is doing on the river with which part of his range, so I think cb river should be our first option, unless we hit 2p/trips. I mean, in his shoes, how often do you see a TAG player bet flop, cb turn and bet river with a bluff? So in general I think that he can fold all his weaker hands to our bet on the river. Taking it one step further, we might start to bluff him there now, if he is folding, but I would say before we can decide what rivers to vbet/bluff on, we need history vs him. So in general I like bet flop cb turn c/f river line more then cb flop and ? turn

First hand T9s - I like the flop bet sizing discussion , what about the bet size on the river - 120 into 146 , it seems to me we will be bet/folding vs most players without seeing they like to bluff raise rivers so it looks like a thin value bet to start with - wouldnt a smaller bet size be better in that case - make it a little easier for villain to click call with worse , get away cheaper when we are beat and induce a wider bluffing frequency vs someone we plan to call

AA hand @ 45.20 - am i mad for wanting to check turn - value bet river ?

really disagree with 4b/calling AQ for the reasons you mention. if he 5b bluffs a lot of random crap like 97s, great, but you focus on small pairs. we have a huge postflop edge on these hands (IP, the % of flops they 'like' is v low) and a preflop equity disadvantage. i think we can certainly increase our 4b/call range (and i also think it's a mistake to 4b bluff at a high clip v most players in 2011), but AQ doesn't need to be candidate #1 for joining that range.

as far as postflop: i'd welcome his aggression. AQ plays well v random shit middle gappers and whatnot or any 10-15% 3b range. take on some tough spots. i think if you're not comfortable dealing with two barrels you need to just get down and dirty more.

It is most likely -EV to 4bet/call unless villain is really crazy

It is most likely -EV to 4bet/call unless villain is really crazy

I would rather add strength to my 3b call ip range rather than be at the btm of my 4b call pf range. I thought it was weird when fender was so adamant about 4b and calling it off. It didn't seem like the dynamics described were warranted for doing that yet.

How would you play AQ if you were OOP co v btn's 3b. You know he's 3betting polarized, but playable hands. Are you more inclined to flat AQ oop or 4bet and get it in? Villain's fold to 4b range is like 50% or something. I feel like i'd just start flatting a wider range oop and look to play poker post.

With that said, it's a big disadavantage to be oop w/o the initiative, but we know villain has a ton of garbage. What are some considerations to think about if villain's cb is only like 55% in 3b pots and his 3b ip is 10-12%? He's basically 3betting with the intention to see 4 cards and having initiative+position. How would you deal with that?

Time Link to 00:07:11

If he float us with ace high, barreling an off suit Ace will be bad right?

Time Link to 00:17:50

Hi FenderJaguar I might agree with you this is not a value bet.

But what you think we should do? Check calling, or check folding?

the Outrun comment was the best thing ive ever heard

Time Link to 00:22:12

So why do we have to bluff every card on the river here? To get him off of JJ, 1010 hands? Thats doesnt seem realistic being BVB. I think checking nearly every river seems pretty standard here, can you please elaborate?