Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by NoahSD (Mid Stakes)

Ghost: NoahSD (#2) - 4-tabling $5/10

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Ghost: NoahSD (#2) - 4-tabling $5/10 by NoahSD

NoahSD returns for some $5/10 4-tabling action. He plays at almost four identical tables as he chose to play at the slowest time for the online sites, so it's only regs out there.

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Ghost the best of DeucesCracked in the shorthanded games they play in today.

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noahsd ghost $5/10 4-tabling nlhe

Video Details

  • Game: nlhe
  • Stakes: Mid Stakes
  • 61 minutes long
  • Posted over 2 years ago

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Comments for Ghost: NoahSD (#2) - 4-tabling $5/10

terp

Avatar for terp

1771 posts
Joined 01/2008

your hud says that you have 17k hands on tsifknits but you say you've not played with him

hmmmm...

Posted almost 3 years ago

bigjimmylea1

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21 posts
Joined 06/2008

actionjacson

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45 posts
Joined 03/2008

Time Link to 00:40:03

another great one here noah, why do you say that heres no value in betting the ace king though, seems like youd be barreling that card a lot and alexander T probably knows this

Posted almost 3 years ago

nephix

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674 posts
Joined 05/2007

LORDCLC

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1 posts
Joined 09/2008

Very good vid you're like the second best after fwf.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Patsui

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175 posts
Joined 04/2008

Very good vid you're like the second best after fwf.


this.

Posted almost 3 years ago

WeekendWarrior

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145 posts
Joined 06/2008

Time Link to 00:54:51

Reminder: would def like some math about this QJ hand Smile

Posted almost 3 years ago

noface

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4 posts
Joined 01/2009

terryfan

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772 posts
Joined 02/2008

at 12:20ish where you 3bet 22 in the bb 200bb deep against a solid reg. I really don't like that. I'm surprised that tsifknits folded pre. If it was other more competent opponents, you're just putting yourself in a very shitty spot where you are forced to play a 3bet pot oop with 200bb deep stack and you will just get owned post so often that makes this 3bet really horrible imho. I think when playing 200bb deep oop, it's better just to flat most of your range and keep the pot under control.

just my 2cents.

Posted almost 3 years ago

themightyjim2k

Avatar for themightyjim2k

415 posts
Joined 04/2007

Time Link to 00:26:07

wtf is tsifknits a bot? how bad can you play. I've never seen anyone not play back at all like this.

Posted almost 3 years ago

ItsAnOmen

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45 posts
Joined 05/2009

Sweat sessions are much better than rewind imo
Like you said, next time against fish

Posted almost 3 years ago

Wesen

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24 posts
Joined 08/2008

very nice vid. would love a sweat-video against more fish.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Magaca

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186 posts
Joined 01/2008

Very cool video.

As for the two remaining video's, i like both rewind and sweat vids. So i would vote for one of each, with the sweat video including fish.

Also, it would be cool with some breakdowns of the AK and the QJ hand as actionjacson and weekendwarrior says.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Hielko

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4402 posts
Joined 07/2008

Time Link to 00:34:56

I'm a bit suprised that you think his valuebet on the river on 66JQ2 with AJ is bad after you cbet this board and check the turn (I'm by the way also a bit suprised with the turn check - and I guess so is TheCleaner).

You are probably cbetting this flop 3way with close to 100% of your range given how dry it is, and I would guess that TheCleaner is calling this flop bet fairly light. And I would also think that this specific turn would be a decent card for you to 2nd barrel with a large part of your range, since the Cleaner has worse than a Jack here quite frequently, so when you have jack beat you should be able to valuebet here imo, since you should be bluffing here fairly often / Jorryt is going to think that you are 2nd barreling here a lot.

And to add to this; inducing bluffs here isn't valueable at all I would say. He almost always has showdown value after calling on the flop, so usually he will be checking the river and imo a bet/check/bet line looks stronger than bet/bet/? people will often say; "if you wanted to bluff, you would do it on the turn".

(And obviously by following this logic his river bet is totally fine since you should be betting most of your better hands on the turn)

Posted almost 3 years ago

Hellsen

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46 posts
Joined 01/2008

at 12:20ish where you 3bet 22 in the bb 200bb deep against a solid reg. I really don't like that. I'm surprised that tsifknits folded pre. If it was other more competent opponents, you're just putting yourself in a very shitty spot where you are forced to play a 3bet pot oop with 200bb deep stack and you will just get owned post so often that makes this 3bet really horrible imho. I think when playing 200bb deep oop, it's better just to flat most of your range and keep the pot under control.

just my 2cents.



it will be extremely easy to play 22 postflop in this spot. you either flop a set and play a huge pot or you cbet/take it down on favorable flops. even if we ch/f in every other scenario, it's probably still +ev.

Posted almost 3 years ago

SSankarAA

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74 posts
Joined 04/2008

You asked if we wanted more rewind or sweat.. Id say sweat because unlike most other video makers, you dont waste 1hour explaining why you are CR'ing a hand for value and betting the turn.. or explaining for 10mins why you are cbetting a dry Ace high board in position.

You get to the point rapidly and know exactly why you are doing it.

So please keep doign them.. the 1hour sweat vids you do are almost as easy to watch as krantz's videos.. while most others its impossible to get over 15mins because hes still talking about cbetting AQ2 with AQ after the first 15

Posted almost 3 years ago

Digital Youkai

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5 posts
Joined 07/2008

Time Link to 00:15:32

Here you decide not to 3 bet JJ because of his high fold to 3 bet% UTG. What type of stats are you looking for to be able to 3 bet JJ? or AQ? And is it only vs UTG raiser or you would do go through the same process vs a CO open even though their starting range would be wider (say they open 35% but fold 85% to 3bet)?
(Thank you. Awesome video. 5*)

Posted almost 3 years ago

drsmooth

Avatar for drsmooth

735 posts
Joined 07/2008

Good video, I really enjoy the sweat format. I have a couple of questions. My first is about a couple of turn spots.

34 mins w/ Qx v AJ and you talk about how terrible villain’s play was when you turn a queen and check it back, then cal his river lead

41 mins AK after 3betting, cbetting Qxx then checking the ace turn

In both these spots you check the turn after it gives you top pair. Both are spots you would probably double barrel with air, I think you say as much in the AK hand. Against a reg that knows this isn’t there value to betting the turn, for value as well as balance in both scenarios?


My second question is more of a request. You spent a lot of time talking about tsifnit and his obviously exploitable responses to 3bets. Since it is obviously too borad a topic to cover in on post could you possibly discuss in a future video how to respond to someone 3betting as light as you are/do?

Thanks

Posted almost 3 years ago

improva

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2877 posts
Joined 02/2008



My second question is more of a request. You spent a lot of time talking about tsifnit and his obviously exploitable responses to 3bets. Since it is obviously too borad a topic to cover in on post could you possibly discuss in a future video how to respond to someone 3betting as light as you are/do?

Thanks



4-bet bluff, 4-bet a wider range for value, call with a wider range ip.

Posted almost 3 years ago

drsmooth

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735 posts
Joined 07/2008

improva

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2877 posts
Joined 02/2008

And tighten up the opening range?



OOP maybe.. but I actually wouldn't since 4-betting Noah with ATC is going to be +EV. Noah is 3-betting like a pig on coke.

Should Noah adjust by 3-betting less and/or expanding his shoving range we might have to tighten up slightly when OOP. But Thomas S I Fk nits (tsifknits) is already pretty tight.

Posted almost 3 years ago

improva

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2877 posts
Joined 02/2008

General comment to the video. Really liked it most of it. But in my opinion you are checking too often in spots where you would bet most air and villain has a ton of potential bluff catchers in his range. That makes sense if:

A) Villain is stupid or
B) You have a read that suggests that you need to strengthen your bluff catching range on the river.

On a side note. Alexander T is a HUGE calling station and one of the few where bet, check, bet line is not a good bluff line to take.

Posted almost 3 years ago

horsetranquilizer

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26 posts
Joined 07/2008

General comment to the video. Really liked it most of it. But in my opinion you are checking too often in spots where you would bet most air and villain has a ton of potential bluff catchers in his range.





thats exactly what i was thinking.
you checked some turns where u were improving. at the same time, you would probably barrel those unimproved. i do think this can be ok sometimes, but how do you balance those spots against players that you do often play against. you would loose a lot of barrel credibility imo

Posted almost 3 years ago

ElCapitan0

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2 posts
Joined 08/2008

Nice Job Noah! I'd like to see more sweat-type videos like this, than rewind. U could tableselect 2 tables & play w/regs @ 2 tables...

Posted almost 3 years ago

spino1i

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178 posts
Joined 09/2008

extremely good video, your best yet. I really liked your throught process and definitely learned some from the video.

Posted almost 3 years ago

oneillsurfer03

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1414 posts
Joined 07/2008

noah ur stats discussion intrigued me in the sense that i dont use stats as i dont think it helps me think about poker. but do you think there is something to be said for intuition and feel? For me its more profitable no doubt. I actually did an experiment with it. What in general makes some ppl play better not usinig stats?

Posted almost 3 years ago

spino1i

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178 posts
Joined 09/2008

Oh, and your sweat videos are way better than your rewind videos imo.

Posted almost 3 years ago

tubasteve

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7697 posts
Joined 11/2007

Time Link to 00:09:31

lmao at the stars VPIP program. i supposed that is a fitting name as well considering it makes people play more. Grin

Posted almost 3 years ago

Shai'tan

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21 posts
Joined 01/2008

Hey guys, just FYI the video is not showing up on the Home page (but is showing everywhere else).

Edited to add: please just go ahead and delete this when it's fixed.



yeah wtf is this? you also say you haven't played much with gith and have a ton of hands on him....

so Noah, are you breaking stars T&C by buying datamined hands?

Posted almost 3 years ago

MPHansen

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2017 posts
Joined 07/2008

Great video, I like the sweat format better and personally would rather see you continue with this format of playing at bad times/against regs. There is so much content out on beating up fish in videos/forums, but improving our game against regs is probably just as important if not more so.

Posted almost 3 years ago

goldseraph

Avatar for goldseraph

1157 posts
Joined 03/2008

Hi very nice video. I wondered about your 3bet sizing.. I noticed that you 3bet to the same size on the button and from the SB (raising to $100). Isn't there an argument for raising larger OOP than IP?
Also what site do you usually play on? Checked TR and you dont seem to have many hands on FTP or Stars. Thanks again!

Posted almost 3 years ago

chomp

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145 posts
Joined 03/2008

Haha, before this vid I thought NoahSD was an up-and-coming small-stakeser making a few vids for DC to see how it worked out.

<<<< Clearly not with the programme. I need a newsletter or something.

Posted almost 3 years ago

poker_693

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3 posts
Joined 07/2009

try to teach urself not to say ummm every two seconds

13minutes in I have to switch off, to ummmmm many ummmmmmm ummmmmmssss.

Posted almost 3 years ago

dangerfish

Avatar for dangerfish

39 posts
Joined 02/2007

Really surprised you donn't bet AK for value on the A turn in the 3-bet pot. You say there is no value which is ridiculous assuming you bet all your air on that turn and any half decent reg would know that. I also think you were a little overly critical on Cleaner's value bet with AJ when you check back the Q turn. Again, I think you should be betting the q for value but given you did not I think he expect to have the best hand a good portion of the time so I don't have a problem with him betting for value.

Posted almost 3 years ago

chipchucker5

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Coach
334 posts
Joined 02/2008

pwned so hard!!

oh and the vid (and ur other sweat vids) are really solid, but I think the rewind vids at 5/10 & 10/20 are the nuts.

Posted almost 3 years ago

DerBrain

Avatar for DerBrain

960 posts
Joined 11/2008

Great video! Really like the way you explain your thought process. And I agree that "TheCleaner"´s value bet on the river is pretty bad.

Posted almost 3 years ago

improva

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2877 posts
Joined 02/2008

Great video! Really like the way you explain your thought process. And I agree that "TheCleaner"´s value bet on the river is pretty bad.



The reason is that we don't see him turn 88 into a bluff on that river so we never bluff catch (unless we suck which we sometimes do). KJ is a bluff catcher. At 100NL I think the Cleaner's VB is okay but not super great.

If we are checking behind with most Qx on the turn and some draws - with the intention of VB'ing/bluffing the river - then the VB is really bad.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Aart

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45 posts
Joined 05/2008

Could you explain the turn check in position against TheCleaner11 with TSpadeQDiamond on 6DiamondJHeart6SpadeQSpade.

What would you have done if AlexanderT bet the turn after you checked on QSpade5Club9HeartAHeart and followed up with a big bet on the 3Diamond river?

I found your "most of these guys fucking suck" comment a bit out of line, definatly considering all the lower stakes players who are watching this vid, working hard, struggling to beat 100 or 200NL.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Bruut99

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18 posts
Joined 06/2008

Agree with above,

It seems you are overestimating your own skill, and underestimating your opponents skill in this video(except tsifknits probably). You hit the right cards at the right moment. "most of these guys fucking suck" is WAY out of line imo.

Posted almost 3 years ago

NoahSD

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Coach
316 posts
Joined 07/2008

kghlshshshs. Exhausted after a long day of traveling, wrote out my reply to all of this and accidentally closed the browser. Here we go again:

All those giving praise,
I'm glad you liked the vid, and I very much appreciate you letting me know.

All those giving advice about what to do for next vid,
Thanks. I'm definitely listening, and I'll try to do what you guys want.

Shai'tan,
I was playing a friend's comp. He's a Stars regular.

actionjacson,
I think you're not properly taking into account the dynamic that I 3-bet an UTG raiser OOP. Given that, that turn card hit my range ridiculously hard. Like, even if I'm 3-betting the extremely loose range of TT+,AT+,A9s+,KJ+,KTs, it would still be really crazy for him to call a turn bet with a bare Q since there's just so little air that I could have and so many strong hands are possible.

LORD and Patsui,
Wow. That's definitely gonna go to my head.

nephix,

http://software.deucescracked.com/DC_STARS_052009.exe . Pretty sweet theme, right?

WeekendWarrior,
OK. I know I promised that. It seems a bit daunting to redo this right now, so I'm putting it off until tomorrow. Sorry Frown.

noface,
ohhhhhhhhhh. I thought it was a word in some language I didn't know. Sorta looks scandinavian to me or something.

terryfan,
He's not just any solid reg. He's a reg. He's a winning player. But, he has a massive leak in that he folds to 3-bets way way way too tightly. That makes it incredibly profitable to 3-bet him here with 22. It's correct to 3-bet him here with 27o... I just don't do it because I know that if I ever showdown 27o I lose the ability to 3-bet him light for a while.

If this weren't the case, I'd def just flat here.

themightyjim,
Guys like this show up all the time. If you're not finding people who will let you exploit you like this, you're not looking hard enough.

Hielko,
Even if it were true that he's almost always ahead on the river, the river is still not a bet for him. That's because when he checks to me on this river, I'm definitely betting KJ and I might bet air (I actually do, but he doesn't know that). If he bets this river, I'm definitely folding JT. In other words, by checking he gets me to put in more money on average than by betting. So that's why I think the bet is bad. I really don't think it's very debatable at all.

I check back the turn with KJ through QJ because I think that there's actually a pretty decent chance that he folds a bare J to a bet here.. something like 40% of the time he folds I would guess. (I way overestimated this while I was making the video. Maybe that's part of the reason you guys are disagreeing with me about this hand.) I also think there's a pretty decent chance that I get a river call from 88-TT if I check back turn and bet river.

Hellsen,
Not quite. The equity of a 3-bet is given by (% fold to 3-bet)*(pot size)-(% 4-bet)*(3-bet size)+(%call)*(equity when called - 3-bet size). I'm 3-betting because his % fold is really high. Where in that equation does ease of play come in?

SSankar,
Thanks for the kind words, man.

Digital,
TBH, I'm embarrassed to say that I've never bothered to come up with exact stats that will make me just flat here with JJ or AQ. I really should do that at some point. I can tell you the basic idea, though.

With JJ, I basically just 3-bet if I think a lot of hands that I crush are gonna call me or 4-bet. Like I'm always 3-betting JJ if I think there's a chance that AJ might call me or 99 might 4-bet, for example. In this case, I thought the guy was probably not going to call my 3-bet with even AQ in these positions, so I thought flatting was probably best. (As it turns out, I was probably way wrong, but I think I made the right decision given the info that I had at the time.)

With AQ the situation is much more complicated. If someone is folding a ton to 3-bets, then I like 3-betting them with whatever. I don't really think it plays so well just calling in raised pots to ever justify "slowplaying" it by just calling preflop against one of those players.

If someone's calling a ton of hands against my 3-bets, then I also 3-bet AQ just because they'll be folding a ton to c-bets, when they call my c-bets I really often have 6 outs, and I get to stack them when I kicker their TP or TP vs draw or even sometimes just TP vs. second pair or whatever.

I DO flat AQ, however, when someone's PFR is very low from whatever position they opened from. Like, I don't wanna 3-bet AQ if someone's opening 10% of hands (like a nit's UTG raise %) and calling or 4-betting with like 7% of hands, then I really don't like 3-betting because I just end up in really bad shape. the 70% of the time that he continues.

Position and stack sizes affect the picture too, of course. With less like 150 BBs or so, I'm more likely to flat IP and more likely to 3-bet OOP. Deeper, I'm more likely to 3-bet IP and flat OOP.

Posted almost 3 years ago

dangerfish

Avatar for dangerfish

39 posts
Joined 02/2007

Agree with above,

It seems you are overestimating your own skill, and underestimating your opponents skill in this video(except tsifknits probably). You hit the right cards at the right moment. "most of these guys fucking suck" is WAY out of line imo.




Right away my initial thought was this guy thinks he is a lot better than he is. Kind of annoyed by the comments about how bad everyone is and you keep saying you should not do something and then go ahead and do it. I think if you really look at the AK hand and conclude that he is never putting money in with worse and never bluffs then just take down the pot and avoid getting sucked out on. And judging by your comments about how bad his call on the river was I have to assume you believe that to be the case.

Posted almost 3 years ago

NoahSD

Avatar for NoahSD

Coach
316 posts
Joined 07/2008

drsmooth,
I talked about those specific hands above. Please let me know if you have any more questions about them.

In general, I def don't always check turned TP when I make it. I hope I didn't give that impression just cause I did that twice in this vid. Hopefully you can see from my explanations why I like it in these spots.

I'm not concerned at all with balancing my range. However, I do adjust my range. There's a pretty big difference.

For example, say that I open the BU and SB calls. Flop comes down 723r, I c-bet and he calls. Turn comes a Ko and he checks to me.

In this spot, my default against a relatively unknown TAG is to 3 barrel air and not value bet the turn with very much. This is just because I expect a 2 barrel to have enough fold equity to be profitable (even more so when you consider that a 3 barrel is def profitable), and I think he folds too often to a turn bet to make betting the turn with like JJ good--more likely he c/cs the river or bets it himself than that he c/cs the turn, and I rarely get 3 barrels out of anything that JJ beats.

However, some opponents have either adjusted to this because they've seen this or are just generally stations and will call 3 streets with 55 here. Obv against them, my game plan has to change to essentially the opposite. Vs. them, I triple barrel something like 99+ and never bet the turn with air.

Note that both these ranges are very unbalanced.

Then there are other opponents who play a fairly unexploitable game here against me. They'll call the flop with something like any pair, maybe A-high with a gutshot, and call the turn with something like 7x or better and call a river bet with something like 88 or better (note that a few hands have made two pair or by hte river so this isn't as narrow a river range it might sound). If I recognize an opponent like that, I'm going to value bet TT or better three streets, and two barrel the turn with any gutshot and any two broadway, and usually 3 barrel the river depending on what falls.

So in that example, my range is actually pretty close to balanced. I didn't balance it on purpose, though, it's just balanced because I'm trying to play each hand profitably, adjusting to my opponent's strategy, and it just turns out that way.

The better your opponents are, the more often you'll be balanced by accident like that.

Responding to the kind of ridiculous range that I was 3-betting that guy with is pretty boring and easy. Just open any two from the CO/BU/SB if I'm left to act and 4-bet small if I 3-bet.

But, it's pretty rare to run into a non-maniac that 3-bets that light. In the more reasonable case when someone is 3-betting you fairly light, but not light enough to make 4-betting any two good, your first defense is to open a bit tighter from late position (provided that you were opening fairly light to begin with of course), 4-bet lighter (provided you weren't already 4-betting light), and when you call the 3-bet realize that your opponent's range can be pretty wide and adjust accordingly.

improva,
I assume that the checking hands you're talking about are the QTo and the AKo hand? See my responses above and let me know what you think.

I don't really like where you're going with this statement:

That makes sense if:

A) Villain is stupid or
B) You have a read that suggests that you need to strengthen your bluff catching range on the river.



I think worrying about whether your opponents are smart or dumb isn't incredibly helpful--except in the case that they're obviously way smarter or way dumber than you are. All I'm doing is considering what I think my opponent would do with his various marginal hands if I bet vs. if I checked and acting accordingly.

I especially don't think it would take a stupid opponent to fold almost all worse hands in the AKo hand. I think it would take a stupid opponent to call with many worse hands, though. Even if I were never betting anything for value there, he doesn't know that. All he can do is guess at how often someone like me would bet whatever hand in that spot and decide what to do based on that. The fact of the matter is that most people like me would bet AK in that spot, so the fact that I don't is barely relevant until he knows me way better.

horse,
See my response to drsmooth at the top of this post. Let me know if you still have questions.

oneillsurfer,
If using stats hurts your winrate, it's because you're not using them right.

So either you weren't using them right or you just ran bad and assumed it was because your winrate was actually hurt. I'd need more info to know which.

Hopefully watching my videos will help you see how to use stats correctly? They're really ridiculously valuable.

steve,
lol.

gold,
Since I 3-bet really lightly, I try to choose the smallest 3-bet that I feel doesn't seriously lower my FE. I've found that I can get away with 3-bets that aren't bigger OOP in spite of the standard argument against that.

There is a pretty strong argument that 3-bets should actually be smaller OOP. Basically, you don't want to raise the stakes out of position.

So, I don't know. Preflop in NLHE with more than like 4x pot behind is really complicated stuff. I have no way to prove that my sizing is best, and a ton of smart people disagree with me.

poker_693,
I'm sorry it bothered you so much. I'm a guy who's good at playing poker and teaching others to play poker--I'm definitely not a public speaker. I'll try my best to improve. It sucks that it bothered you so much that you had to stop watching.

dangerfish,
I think I responded to all your comments in earlier replies. Let me know if you still have questions.

chipchucker,
At least I wasn't recording when I folded that nut flush to your trips. I still have nightmares about that hand (There's a little boy with glowing eyes and no pupils outside my bedroom window, and he's listing the things that I could buy with the money I lost in that pot).

Aart,
I think I answered your first two questions in previous replies. Let me know if you're still curious about something.

Aart + Bruut,
I'm sorry you guys were offended by that. I certainly didn't mean to insult people who are struggling at lower stakes. I actually meant to do the opposite.

My point was that it's not impossible to get up to these stakes and beat these guys. They make mistakes all the time. I make mistakes all the time.

I know that a lot of the leaks that I find in my students again and again come from overthinking their opponents. "Well he must know that I'm going to bluff here a lot, so I can't bluff here", etc etc etc. I see the same stuff in a lot of the comments that people post on my videos.. "Well, if he knew you were going to do that, couldn't he do this?"

I think that if someone had just pointed out to me early in my career at whatever stake that the regs all have tons of leaks, I'd be a lot richer right now.

Posted almost 3 years ago

NoahSD

Avatar for NoahSD

Coach
316 posts
Joined 07/2008

Ok.. I'm exhausted. I hope that stuff's all reasonably coherent. Please don't hesitate to ask for clarification or to call me an idiot.

Posted almost 3 years ago

NoahSD

Avatar for NoahSD

Coach
316 posts
Joined 07/2008

Right away my initial thought was this guy thinks he is a lot better than he is. Kind of annoyed by the comments about how bad everyone is and you keep saying you should not do something and then go ahead and do it. I think if you really look at the AK hand and conclude that he is never putting money in with worse and never bluffs then just take down the pot and avoid getting sucked out on. And judging by your comments about how bad his call on the river was I have to assume you believe that to be the case.



Sorry you were annoyed.

In the hand that you're referring to, I think his river call was bad but I also thought there was a decent chance he'd do it anyway.

I don't think everyone plays perfectly.

I don't play perfectly either of course, and if I were playing against myself, I'd absolutely notice things that I was doing wrong, and I'd absolutely make plays that were only correct against me if I had a momentary lapses of judgment occasionally. If I did have that momentary lapse of judgment, I'd laugh about it.

Posted almost 3 years ago

improva

Avatar for improva

2877 posts
Joined 02/2008

I should not have used the word stupid. I agree. What I meant was: Players who do not hand read and will bluff catch in spots where we are never bluffing. In this video you are playing against a ton of regs and I think one can use that against them - that they will hand read.

I'm also talking about the A4 (I think) vs tsifknits.

Posted almost 3 years ago

inavacuum

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907 posts
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Hey Noah, I really enjoyed the video. Thank you.

I think the AK/QT lines caused a bit of a stir because sometimes people can get hung up on the idea that there's one optimal line and deviation is bad and both people can't be right so someone has to be playing horribly. Which is of course very silly.

Posted almost 3 years ago

NoahSD

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Here's the A4 hand improva's talking about.

I really like my check here for a few reasons:

1) He might not call a c-bet with less than like TT or a FD here, and he almost def bets Ax or a FD here, and he's fairly likely to bet TT-KK.
2) After I 3-bet him repeatedly and he never calls and I finally check flop when he does call, I look like I'm just giving up, so if he has like a small PP or KQ or something, he'll prob bet thinking I'm just folding really often.
3) If I check here and he checks back, I expect him to call a turn bet really ridic light for the same reason that I expect him to bluff flop pretty often.

inavacuum,
I agree that betting the turn in either of those hands wouldn't be a big mistake. I think it would be a mistake, though.

There is one correct play in each spot.

All,
I found a couple spots where I think I screwed up.

One is this T8dd on the bottom right against chipchucker. I say that I'm considering raising the river. Obviously, the river is between call and fold since I doubt he's betting here with like bare trips or bare Ax/Kx.

The other is about 26 minutes in in the top right. When I check back A4o OTB after raising pre on a A38r board. At the time, I guess I thought he's folding some pairs to a bet, but he's got a 40% fold to 3-bet and the board is as dry as possible, so I think he's probably calling almost any pair, and that def makes it a bet.

Here's the math on the QJ hand that I promised:

So let's say the only hands he ever gets to the turn with are Axhh/suited heart connectors/KQ/KJs/KTs/A8s/78s/89s/sets/99-JJ/occasional floats. Here's what I think his turn betting range is:

Axhh is 10 total combos. They raise sometimes on the flop and check back sometimes on the turn (espec the 2 paired ones), so we'll give him 5 combos of that for his turn betting range.

There are about 7 suited connector hearts possible, two of them paired the turn (QThh and QJhh), and the others probably play this way a lot, so we'll give him like 3.5 combos of that.

KQ is gonna play this way always and is 6 combos.

KJ is 9 possible combos, maybe 7 of which play this way preflop, and then maybe 4 of those bet the turn.

KTs is 3 possible combos, maybe 1.5 of them bet the turn or something.

A8s/78s/89s is 9 combos, discounted to maybe 7.5 on the flop, and then down to like 3 on the turn.

sets are 10 possible combos. QQ and KK discounted preflop, others discounted on the flop. I'd put like 3 combos in there.

99-JJ is 15 combos. Discounted to like 13 on the flop, and then down to like 5 on the turn.

We'll throw in like 3 combos of floats. I think that's pretty reasonable because it's a nice board to float, but I'm UTG so he's prob not doing it too too often.

So, that's 34 combos that he could have, and our pot equity against that range is (5*.73+3.5*.75+5.5*.05+3*.88+5*.95+3*.92)/34 = 49%.

Admittedly, that's not all there is to this spot, since I lose equity on the river if he two barrels with reasonable frequencies, but I think that's a pretty strong case for calling.

On the river, let's give him the following range (combos on river/combos on turn):

Axhh: 2/5
Other FDs: 2/3.5
KQ: 6/6
KJ: 1.5/4
KTs: .5/1.5
8x: 3/3
99-JJ: .5/5
floats: 2/3

So that's 17.5 combos that he gets to the river with, and only 11 beat us, making it a call.

Posted almost 3 years ago

improva

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Joined 02/2008

Here's the A4 hand improva's talking about.

I really like my check here for a few reasons:

1) He might not call a c-bet with less than like TT or a FD here, and he almost def bets Ax or a FD here, and he's fairly likely to bet TT-KK.
2) After I 3-bet him repeatedly and he never calls and I finally check flop when he does call, I look like I'm just giving up, so if he has like a small PP or KQ or something, he'll prob bet thinking I'm just folding really often.
3) If I check here and he checks back, I expect him to call a turn bet really ridic light for the same reason that I expect him to bluff flop pretty often.



Well, it all depends on what level we expect villain to be on. But I use that line for bluffs - and line like bet, check, bet for value. Here is why:


When you have been 3-betting him a ton your perceived range has a lot of air in it. Flop has a nature where most players expect you to c-bet all your air. When you check the flop you remove a large portion of your air from your range together with AK, AQ, (AA). And he will therefor check behind with most of his range - include hands with no show down value since he expects you to check/call. When you bet the turn and his range is face up it looks like you are betting for thin value and he will fold most of his bluff catchers since your range now has less bluffs.

Posted almost 3 years ago

tapped_out

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52 posts
Joined 01/2008

Finally got around to finishing and thought it was very well done. Definitely up there with the other top videos on DC.

And the crazy long explanation here show you take pride in what you're doing. I will read when I get a chance.

Posted almost 3 years ago

pr0wler

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82 posts
Joined 05/2008

I liked this one also. I wasn't a fan of the swearing in previous vids but I think you toned it down a bit for this one which was nice. Definitely more tables with fish would be nice as it gives a more realistic dynamic. I know personally I never sit down at a table full of regs.

Posted almost 3 years ago

bigjimmylea1

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21 posts
Joined 06/2008

DEF MORE SWEAT VIDS. They really r some of the best vids out there.

But maybe for the next vids you make you could drop down in stakes a bit as 5/10 is pretty big. But also I am sure that 5/10 plays v different to the lower levels.

Posted almost 3 years ago

NoahSD

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316 posts
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improva,
I think it's really unlikely that he checks back Ax on the flop. You agree? I think that's pretty significant, since I'm dealing with a guy who obv doesn't wanna get out of his comfort zone at all, so I wouldn't be surprised at all to just see him muck TT to a flop bet here.

tapped, pr0wler, bigjimmy,
Thanks for the kind words and the advice. Def appreciate it.

Posted almost 3 years ago

ms513

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Joined 01/2009

Given this is supposed to be high stakes I did not like it much. The thought process in some spots is pretty poor.

Posted almost 3 years ago

inavacuum

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907 posts
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Given this is supposed to be high stakes I did not like it much. The thought process in some spots is pretty poor.



Extrapolate please. Your statement is non-quantifiable.

Posted almost 3 years ago

tubasteve

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7697 posts
Joined 11/2007

Given this is supposed to be high stakes I did not like it much. The thought process in some spots is pretty poor.



did you read the thread? noah practically wrote a damn novel further explaining his decisions. Horseshoe

Posted almost 3 years ago

NoahSD

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Zen and the Art of Checking Turned Top Pair, by NoahSD.

Posted almost 3 years ago

chipchucker5

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CoRdo

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145 posts
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Time Link to 00:15:59

What do you think about going all in with JJ instead of 4betting? Your range seems sort of weak after you call the original open raise and by shoving you can represent a re-steal against his squeeze. You should get looked up sort of light because what you represent is hands like 66-99 etc.

Posted almost 3 years ago

improva

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Joined 02/2008

improva,
I think it's really unlikely that he checks back Ax on the flop. You agree? I think that's pretty significant, since I'm dealing with a guy who obv doesn't wanna get out of his comfort zone at all, so I wouldn't be surprised at all to just see him muck TT to a flop bet here.
.



I don't think he folds TT to a c-bet and I think he checks TT back and folds 83.4% of the time to a delayed c-bet since you are never bluffing there.

EDIT: But it is all a question of what level he is on.

Posted almost 3 years ago

NoahSD

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cord,
Shoving's fine. I like 4-betting better because it gives him the chance to do something stupid, like to flat my 4-bet with something dumb like suited connectors or a small PP or something or to shove with something marginal/total crap.

The only real downside I see to 4-betting instead of shoving is that he might flat something like TT/AK instead of getting it in and then he might play fit or fold on the flop. I think that's a small concern because he's often going to shove those, and I think getting him to call or shove with something crappy is a pretty big concern, so that's why I like the small 4-bet.

improva,
Yeah, we just disagree on how he plays.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Ulkis

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698 posts
Joined 10/2007

Very good video, interesting points, lots to think about.

What ESPECIALLY adds value to the video imo is the time and effort that Noah has clearly taken in this thread, need to rewatch together with his replies to the comments.

Posted almost 3 years ago

lastcardcharlie

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44 posts
Joined 03/2008

Bazclef

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lol at the comment at the end about professional poker players sucking Smile Great vid.

Posted almost 3 years ago

NoahSD

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Ulkis + lastcard,
Glad you liked it.

Bazclef,
Glad someone liked that comment Poke Tongue.

Posted almost 3 years ago

Koln4ever

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2 posts
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NoahSD

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Joined 07/2008

Koln4ever,
Sick sn!

Unfortunately, the comp that had this sweet HUD is now dead and buried, so I can't send it to you. I'm using the stock HUD right now because I'm lazy Frown.

It's really not very hard to make at all, though. The HUD that I have in this video is like incredibly easy to make.... I don't even have HM on the box I'm on right now, but basically you just go to HM's HUD setup menu and add in all the stats you want with new lines between them. I later modified it so that it had two panels, and I'd like to eventually have a HUD with some real color coding.

Beyond simple stuff like that, I can't help you much. Might wanna check out this vid: http://www.deucescracked.com/forums/13-Videos/topics/3819-Tool-Time-Using-the-Holde .

Posted over 1 year ago



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