Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by KRANTZ (High Stakes)

Should be pretty epic

Time Link to 00:08:17

Very convinsing, how now am I supposed to know youre not zombies?


Also Im pretty sure Phil lent that look from Dwan

Great vid, I like how you present the factors we should be thinking about and admit there's not always a "right" answer. I definitely think that that video style is best for learning as we can then think about those factors when we are analyzing hands on our own instead of just thinking about what one coach would do or whatever.


Question about that last hand with the top set 77 on 753tt regarding considering slow playing - you guys did a great job explaining how there is likely more value vs some parts of the opponent's range (like his thin value 88/strong 7x type hands) by slow playing and then c/r'ing a later street to rep a weakish pair turned into a bluff or something, but is maximizing our value vs that part of the guy's range and risking losing action when he has thick value hands like TT+ and a spade, 4, or 6 falls, or risking losing the hand when he has the draws which those cards complete, really worth it? I think Baluga says we should ask ourselves 'can I get value now?' and then ask, 'is there more value later if I wait?' And given the straight combinatorics of the hand - more combos of 33/55/TT+/strong draws then strong 7x/88/99, and like 16 actions killing/beat cards that can come on the turn and/or river- it seems like despite the leveling considerations you mentioned, there's still likely more value to be had now. What are your guys' thoughts on that?

Basically, in general, when do you think leveling considerations should trump combinatorics in a spot like this?

Also, when you are multi tabling somebody - after you see a hand go to showdown, are you guys able to just think through all the kinds of stuff you outlined in this video (like considering all of the villain's possible thought processes, how you will adjust, how he may adjust etc) while still being involved in other hands on multiple tables, or are all these considerations just so imbedded in your subconscious that you don't really have to 'think' through and rationalize them anymore, you just sort of make the right adjustments automatically given the recent history and the hands that went to showdown?

Great video, lots of stuff to think about and really motivating to put in more HU PLO hands. Really looking forward to the next episodes.

nice episode !!

Great vid, I like how you present the factors we should be thinking about and admit there's not always a "right" answer. I definitely think that that video style is best for learning as we can then think about those factors when we are analyzing hands on our own instead of just thinking about what one coach would do or whatever.


Question about that last hand with the top set 77 on 753tt regarding considering slow playing - you guys did a great job explaining how there is likely more value vs some parts of the opponent's range (like his thin value 88/strong 7x type hands) by slow playing and then c/r'ing a later street to rep a weakish pair turned into a bluff or something, but is maximizing our value vs that part of the guy's range and risking losing action when he has thick value hands like TT+ and a spade, 4, or 6 falls, or risking losing the hand when he has the draws which those cards complete, really worth it? I think Baluga says we should ask ourselves 'can I get value now?' and then ask, 'is there more value later if I wait?' And given the straight combinatorics of the hand - more combos of 33/55/TT+/strong draws then strong 7x/88/99, and like 16 actions killing/beat cards that can come on the turn and/or river- it seems like despite the leveling considerations you mentioned, there's still likely more value to be had now. What are your guys' thoughts on that?

Thought about this myself and these are my thoughts.

there are not as many combos of sets/small overpairs compared to overcards that villain can potentially barrel.

I know when i see this board and my opponent c/c's i'm licking my chops 'haha i know your range is capped most of the time'.

The flop is 7 hi. there are so many turn cards that will be overs.
there are many 'scare cards' eg st8 and flush completing cards.

I would bet 3 streets with overcards most of the time or anything with any equity maybe just pure bluffs. Obv he still can value bet thin on top of that.

So if you know villain is competent and aggressive this is ideal to c/c (cr river) 3 streets with top set.

So if you know villain is competent and aggressive this is ideal to c/c (cr river) 3 streets with top set.

Yeah I agree with what you're saying, but at the same time if we really expect the guy on the button to be barreling that much when our range looks capped, we can bluff catch with something other than topset.

Yeah I agree with what you're saying, but at the same time if we really expect the guy on the button to be barreling that much when our range looks capped, we can bluff catch with something other than topset.

Two comments
1) We have top set on a low board => most of villain's hands will have 6 outs to improve to a bluff catcher on the river.

2) Let us say that villain can assume that we are almost always X/C or X/F the river. If you think a little about it I'm pretty sure that you will realize how massive an edge that would give him.

Great vid, I like how you present the factors we should be thinking about and admit there's not always a "right" answer. I definitely think that that video style is best for learning as we can then think about those factors when we are analyzing hands on our own instead of just thinking about what one coach would do or whatever.


Question about that last hand with the top set 77 on 753tt regarding considering slow playing - you guys did a great job explaining how there is likely more value vs some parts of the opponent's range (like his thin value 88/strong 7x type hands) by slow playing and then c/r'ing a later street to rep a weakish pair turned into a bluff or something, but is maximizing our value vs that part of the guy's range and risking losing action when he has thick value hands like TT+ and a spade, 4, or 6 falls, or risking losing the hand when he has the draws which those cards complete, really worth it? I think Baluga says we should ask ourselves 'can I get value now?' and then ask, 'is there more value later if I wait?' And given the straight combinatorics of the hand - more combos of 33/55/TT+/strong draws then strong 7x/88/99, and like 16 actions killing/beat cards that can come on the turn and/or river- it seems like despite the leveling considerations you mentioned, there's still likely more value to be had now. What are your guys' thoughts on that?

Basically, in general, when do you think leveling considerations should trump combinatorics in a spot like this?

Also, when you are multi tabling somebody - after you see a hand go to showdown, are you guys able to just think through all the kinds of stuff you outlined in this video (like considering all of the villain's possible thought processes, how you will adjust, how he may adjust etc) while still being involved in other hands on multiple tables, or are all these considerations just so imbedded in your subconscious that you don't really have to 'think' through and rationalize them anymore, you just sort of make the right adjustments automatically given the recent history and the hands that went to showdown?

Good questions/comments. While your point about "can we get value now" has some merit, it doesn't tell the whole story, especially with regards to heads up where we can be faced with a guy playing nearly all the deck in position vs our range that is mostly capped once we c/c flop and turn. I certainly do not hate a c/r on the flop (how could I hate anything besides folding with top set? ) I think it's worth considering taking an alternate line here when it adds some much needed balance to most people's flop and turn range here. If you have a nice c/r dynamic going, then by all means, c/r here. Even if you have no dynamic going and the guy is playing like 60 vpip in position, i dont mind going for a c/r here, but I do want you to think about all the factors of how your range plays out vs his range on different turns and not be so afraid of "oh crap what if he actually has AA this time and a 4 straight comes out" because it's just not going to be that way that often. Unlike 6max where nitty mcnitterson raises utg and you flat the button with 77 and get this flop, it's a bit of a different story.

So in conclusion, as long as you're looking at all the factors (including, but not limited to: his pf steal, your c/r range so far, your c/c range so far, his 2 and 3barrel tendencies, your propensity to fold rivers, and more) and then you decide "ok I want to c/r this hand this time" then I will give you my blessing. If your thoughts mostly stop at "crap he's playing 90vpip on the button but if he does have aces i MIGHT lose SOME value 1/4-1/3 of the deck" then I don't think that's good enough.

improva nailed it too with some great points, as usual.

Yeah I agree with what you're saying, but at the same time if we really expect the guy on the button to be barreling that much when our range looks capped, we can bluff catch with something other than topset.

Certainly a valid point, but it is also nice to have some river c/r in our range and its nice to get in his head a bit showing him a non-standard slowplay. The value of these things is hard to quantify, and they are just part of the overall puzzle. I do not think you need to slowplay this hand on this board every time, I just have a feeling that many hu players never do it and never consider doing it.

Very convinsing, how now am I supposed to know youre not zombies?

if i change my coaching rate to be 1 ripe brain per hour, it's time to get worried

WoT/Improva/richbrown - great points, thanks a ton

I'm a big fan of both Wilt on Tilt and Jay. So far not of this series. I thought most of the discussion went on for too long, especially the kq hand which seemed to go on for way too long. WoT refined my playing ability when he said he tends to play his marginal hands as bluff catchers and his good draws and made hands for value. This is such invaluable advice and has paid off significantly in my play. It seems the kq hand falls under this category: bluff catch or no. The salient point being how wide villain's bluff range is on this board of 'chicken'. I see no point in raising unless we are raising to induce from a worse hand. Otherwise we can bluff catch or fold.

Jay's analysis seems to me to be at its best in live commentary. The LimeAid series where he and Whitelime dueled it out was terrific. Also many other live commentary by him has been standout. WoT's last Buffalo series was standout. Anything by Whitelime is top rate. Grindcore's nl commentary is among the best out there, and in my opinion is breaking things down in a way that no other instructor on any site I am a member is doing. So far this series hasn't been very helpful. I write all this not to complain but in the hope that future episodes will be improved upon.

I feel so bad for not mentioning FWF in my list of favorite DC instructors that I had to post to mention him.

Madfish, episode 4 will be about balancing and hand range and some math behind that. I'm not sure if you watched my math series but it will be some of that in with discussions about hand ranges. Hopefully you will like that more. If you are already well versed in topics such as what we mean by hand ranges and balancing and why they are important then you'll want to skip to the second half of next week's video and just listen to the analysis of a river spot jay played and the math behind how we would actually construct a balanced leading range and a balanced river c/r range there (two spots where people are severely imbalanced these days).

Episodes 5 and 6 will be reviewing a 2 tabling 10/20 recording I made, so you will get some more of jay's live commentary style (he hasn't seen the recording before) and I'll still talk about hand ranges and adjustments like always.

We don't have episodes 7 and 8 recorded yet so if there's something specific that we haven't yet talked about that you want some insight on let us know.

It is always a challenge to try to meet everyone's needs since this series is meant to not only update the introductory pr1nnyraiding 1 and 2 series for 2011 but also to add in some new insights and delve deeper into how the games have evolved. I hope you will like the next several videos better, but if there's any specific advice you have for us, please let us know.

Thanks
WoT

Looking forward to the rest of the series. It sounds excellent. Thanks for the thorough reply. Hand ranges, balancing, and adjusting are all topics I'm especially keen to learn more about. It seems Isildur is especially good at all three. I know Ike, LuvtheWNBA, mentioned that Isildur kept adjusting throughout the match which made things especially difficult for him.

Nice vid its covers lot of useful concepts.My question is on the AJ hand.If i am not wrong there is a scenario that u didnt cover,that because we C/R OFTEN villain will increase his value range for 3betting flop.Under that consideration isnt better to jam flop >?

also when ur C/R % is big do u think there is merit to have premium hands to ur donking range (u discussed about C/C range but not about donking range)?

Nice vid its covers lot of useful concepts.My question is on the AJ hand.If i am not wrong there is a scenario that u didnt cover,that because we C/R OFTEN villain will increase his value range for 3betting flop.Under that consideration isnt better to jam flop >?

can you link to the time?

I can't remember the hand in question, but why do you think if we are c/r a lot that he would increase his value range to 3bet the flop? Shouldn't he slowplay more?

also when ur C/R % is big do u think there is merit to have premium hands to ur donking range (u discussed about C/C range but not about donking range)?

it's key to keep all of those ranges (c/r, c/c, donk) in sync and look for that leak in others when they are over extending themselves in 1 of those 3 strategies

Time Link to 00:42:11

the AJ hand.In theory he should slowplay some big hands but the board is AQ6ss he can not have many hands that can slowplay there..u dont rep AQ/AA/QQ/AK since u didnt 3bet pre,and ur 20% c/r range consists of FDs,gutshots so any Ax should probably 3bet/getting in,on the flop for value against ur draws right?is my thought process flawed?

it's key to keep all of those ranges (c/r, c/c, donk) in sync and look for that leak in others when they are over extending themselves in 1 of those 3 strategies

yours and jay's analysis about this on the balancing episode is perfect..i still didnt understand the neutral EV decision thing but when i have free time i will scrutiny the vid otherwise i will bomb u with questions again

the AJ hand.In theory he should slowplay some big hands but the board is AQ6ss he can not have many hands that can slowplay there..u dont rep AQ/AA/QQ/AK since u didnt 3bet pre,and ur 20% c/r range consists of FDs,gutshots so any Ax should probably 3bet/getting in,on the flop for value against ur draws right?is my thought process flawed?

No, Ax should slowplay, those are the types of hands I meant. A c/r on AQ6ss represents a bunch of combos of broadway gutshots and flush draws and air and potentially some "thin" value with some Ax hands. We can play pretty well on turns/rivers so I don't see a need to take some hand like A7 and 3bet the flop to get it in. I do think it is reasonable for the button to 3bet bluff the flop a higher than normal amount.

With 60bb stacks and the fact that the checkraiser reps so many weak draws that calling flop to stick it in on good turns seems way better with a hand like A7 than just 3betting the flop right away.