Full Ring No Limit Poker Forums

Full Tilt Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 523053
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $178.15
SB: $188.70
BB: $141.50
UTG: $23.95
UTG+1: $243.65
UTG+2: $96.90
MP1: $129.10
Hero (MP2): $108.25
CO: $118.80

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP2 with 5 5
4 folds, Hero raises to $3.50, CO calls $3.50, 3 folds

Flop: ($8.50) 4 A 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $6.50, CO calls $6.50

Turn: ($21.50) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $17.00, CO calls $17

River: ($55.50) 2 (2 players)
Hero...


Pre, flop, and turn seem standard. My main goal here is to get value from some FDs, but mostly from Ax. River completes a flush and puts a 4-straight out there. Bet/call and check/call seems super spew to me so we're left with c/f and b/f. B/f is pretty thin, but I think we can still get called by 2pair and sometimes Ax and he really shouldn't have any air to bluff with at this point. C/f is an option too if we don't think he'll ever call with worse. Thoughts? Also, if you plan to b/f, how much?

reads on villain?

If he's a tight unimaginative reg then I'm probably just c/fing. I know in theory c/calling here seems pretty terrible, but I always feel like just turning my entire range into a bluff when I'm villain and you check this river to me.

It's rush poker so no real reads. While I understand that you're turning your entire range into a bluff at this point, what hands do you have in your range that get to the river this way that need to bluff?

I'd bet 28 to get value from top pair and two-pair, fold to a raise.

It's rush poker so no real reads. While I understand that you're turning your entire range into a bluff at this point, what hands do you have in your range that get to the river this way that need to bluff?

TT-99,77-66? Suited 65 or 75 no hearts?

Checking might also induce a thin value bet from top pair-only hands. If you bet 20-30ish into that scary river, a hand like A7-A6 no flush would have a hard time calling, but if you check, Villain might make an affordable bet.

Admittedly, checking is pretty marginal. You will be calling bad a whole lot if you check/call here.

B/f is pretty thin, but I think we can still get called by 2pair and sometimes Ax and he really shouldn't have any air to bluff with at this point. C/f is an option too if we don't think he'll ever call with worse. Thoughts? Also, if you plan to b/f, how much?

Rapid Ev said in a video somewhere if you find yourself thinking "I don't know what to do" then b/f because there is a huge gap between people's range for calling and their range for raising.

Bet $28/fold here gets value from Ax and 2 pair hands but also protects your hand from a difficult to call River bluff by Villain's TT+. Many Villains with a straight will call not raise. Flush/Straight Flush will raise. Note the River bet sizing is critical as bet has to be an amount you would credibly bet with the flush otherwise you probably induce a bluff Raise. A bluff Raise is really tempting here.

So the question for you here is: what is the least amount you would bet here with the flush? I think $28 (1/2 Pot).

It's rush poker so no real reads. While I understand that you're turning your entire range into a bluff at this point, what hands do you have in your range that get to the river this way that need to bluff?

Yeah good point there really aren't many hands since most mid pairs will be folding the turn, but I was thinking like weakish toppairs (AJ etc.) I do think c/f is the best play without any info. on villain, I just think it's worth considering c/calling if you think villain will view this as a good spot to just bet his entire range.

Yeah, tbh sizing is pretty crucial here, and I guess I underestimated the amount of hands he could have at the river that he turns into a bluff. I wound up b/fing for $24, but it felt dirty. lol

Yeah good point there really aren't many hands since most mid pairs will be folding the turn, but I was thinking like weakish toppairs (AJ etc.) I do think c/f is the best play without any info. on villain, I just think it's worth considering c/calling if you think villain will view this as a good spot to just bet his entire range.

Do you actually ever make this play? I've often thought about it, but at the micros I constantly see players c/c the river here with sets. They are scared of the flush so they don't want to bet, but when it comes to clicking fold they just can't do it. Maybe a play better reserved for higher stakes =p

c/f this river burns $ in missed value. It's a pretty clear bet/fold even without reads. I have no idea how rush plays though but against some players I actually jam here but thats with reads and images in consideration (i.e. where I play players raise FDs and dont fold TP ever).

If the As were the Ah and the 5h was the 5c Id be even more inclined to jam.

Yeah, tbh sizing is pretty crucial here, and I guess I underestimated the amount of hands he could have at the river that he turns into a bluff. I wound up b/fing for $24, but it felt dirty. lol

nah, that sounds optimal.

If the As were the Ah and the 5h was the 5c Id be even more inclined to jam.

Why is that?

c/f this river burns $ in missed value. It's a pretty clear bet/fold even without reads. I have no idea how rush plays though but against some players I actually jam here but thats with reads and images in consideration (i.e. where I play players raise FDs and dont fold TP ever).

If the As were the Ah and the 5h was the 5c Id be even more inclined to jam.

I think it depends on villain (which rapid didn't give any info on.) But a lot of nitty regs simply aren't calling river with worse.

Why is that?

Less FD combos in his range since a lot of FD combos contain the Ace of the suit

I think it depends on villain (which rapid didn't give any info on.) But a lot of nitty regs simply aren't calling river with worse.

Yeah, I have been discussing with some pokerstars players the differences between sites. I play at Euro sites and with my image I can get value on this river here all day because no one folds top pair to me.

Note that I'm not saying "lol euros" because it's not quite as simple as that, looking at a huge stars database given to me by a student yesterday I'd say 8/10 regs could be run over very easily unless they adjust.



But that's all slightly off topic.....
Problem with this hand is that we are up against an unknown which means that we have to assign an average value to the player(you can actually use a form of bayes theory for this but I forget the details).
For example if 90% of rush players are nit regs then you can vbet very easily here. If 90% of rush players are clueless fish then you still probably want to vbet/fold here.

The shove line only really comes into play when your image is that of barrel monkey and the player is the type to hero call.

Bet fold