Grindcore
2370 posts
Joined 11/2008
Very interesting hand on table 4. When he barrels, the turn, his value range is super narrow, and if he is aggressive he should fire the river. Given the context, how big a bet would you have called, on the river ?
Also , I think Improva, talked about this specific situation in the video in which he used the StoxEv model.....
Thanks.
Maybe I'll call 1/3rd pot, and I wouldn't be happy about it as people don't bluff wit that size and he's not valuebetting J9 there. I don't think I had reads to justify a 3rd call there. Raising river is alot better than calling.
Posted over 3 years ago
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Grindcore
2370 posts
Joined 11/2008
beachbum
101 posts
Joined 01/2008
Time Link to 00:49:29
On table 4, you mentioned about c/r with KJ as top pair on this draw heavy board. I think most TAG's here will c/r with mostly sets and big draws, and occasionally air. TP type hands they'll almost always c/c. So are you usually c/r TPGK and TPTK type hands for value in these spots 100bb's deep? Obviously this balances your c/r range since villains will get owned trying to bluffcatch with JT/99/88 type hands.
You also mentioned about c/r and getting it in would be "standard" for you 100bb deep. Do you really think villains in this spot are 3bet shoving the flop light enough to make this +EV? Please just elaborate a little bit about how to handle different parts of our range in this spot since I think most TAG regulars are at least somewhat uncomfortable vs other regs when defending their blind.
Posted over 3 years ago
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Grindcore
2370 posts
Joined 11/2008
On table 4, you mentioned about c/r with KJ as top pair on this draw heavy board. I think most TAG's here will c/r with mostly sets and big draws, and occasionally air. TP type hands they'll almost always c/c. So are you usually c/r TPGK and TPTK type hands for value in these spots 100bb's deep? Obviously this balances your c/r range since villains will get owned trying to bluffcatch with JT/99/88 type hands.
No, I usually lead these flops where villain is likely to check back. If I check it's because I think villain cbets too much and I wanna punish him for that by checkraising wet flops, or because I've been c/r bluffing him alot on other board textures and since my image will be bad, I'm looking to checkraise a flop for value asap.
You also mentioned about c/r and getting it in would be "standard" for you 100bb deep. Do you really think villains in this spot are 3bet shoving the flop light enough to make this +EV? Please just elaborate a little bit about how to handle different parts of our range in this spot since I think most TAG regulars are at least somewhat uncomfortable vs other regs when defending their blind.
No it's not standard, I kinda phrased that badly. Standard is leading. However, if I c/r and get shoved on (or he 3bets pot committing) I'm getting it in, c/r/f is horrible without reads. Here I think we're too deep to get it in, so I'd have to c/r/f, which sucks, so I'm either gonna c/c or lead.
Posted over 3 years ago
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zugzwangg
45 posts
Joined 06/2009
Time Link to 01:11:57
In this QQ hand 3 way vs regulars, I am not sure I like your ch/call as if he has air he is betting a lot of turns when you can't continue and he is rarely betting here for value with hands that we beat without large amounts of equity.
meaning i like b/f better.
that said, what would you do if it was heads up?
Posted over 3 years ago
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Grindcore
2370 posts
Joined 11/2008
In this QQ hand 3 way vs regulars, I am not sure I like your ch/call as if he has air he is betting a lot of turns when you can't continue and he is rarely betting here for value with hands that we beat without large amounts of equity.
meaning i like b/f better.
that said, what would you do if it was heads up?
HU I'd also often c/c for exactly the same reasons I check here. Also HU he'll bluff 100% of his air because there's no 3rd player behind. HU he'll also be more likely to raise the flop than when there's a 3rd player behind him so cbetting doesn't become better necessarily.
Betting that flop is begging to get raised. If you don't have a c/c range there you're gonna get owned as villain can raise your cbets blindly and also bluff at all your checks.
Posted over 3 years ago
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ImaRealGirl
3 posts
Joined 05/2009
Yes it is really hard. Multitabling and talking at the same time is alot harder than just playing or just watching and thinking along. Speaking thoughts when you think much faster than you can talk is also hard, atleast for me. And on iPoker, where I normally play, you get 30 seconds per decision, which is more than on FTP. I was also playing without sound so I didn't hear the warning beeps, I'll make sure to change my audio configuration for future sweat sessions.
I also prefer 2 tables for video making, but there was demand to seeing me play alot of standard spots, so I did 4 tables for this one.
I really like the detailed explanations of your thought process during the hands. I'm not sure if it is too late to suggest this, but you may want to try Poker Stars for your next 4-table vid. The time bank there is MUCH longer than FTP's, so you won't feel so rushed or time out.
Another quick suggestion: Could you please try and identify who you are talking about and/or which table more clearly? I get confused sometimes when you say "this guy," or "here I decided to check..." and there are a few different hands going on at once. Maybe assign table numbers or something?
Posted over 3 years ago
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MagisterLudi
173 posts
Joined 12/2009
Thanks for a great video. I have a question about your own HUD stats. I watched your PS+ videos where you mention that your VPIP is often around 20, even below. Here your average VPIP on 4 tables would be something over 30. Is this due to the specific tables (a lot of donks), the fact that you're looking for interesting spots for the video or has your style just changed?
Best regards
Posted over 3 years ago
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Grindcore
2370 posts
Joined 11/2008
Thanks for a great video. I have a question about your own HUD stats. I watched your PS+ videos where you mention that your VPIP is often around 20, even below. Here your average VPIP on 4 tables would be something over 30. Is this due to the specific tables (a lot of donks), the fact that you're looking for interesting spots for the video or has your style just changed?
Best regards
I play ~22 vpip 6handed, but 28 vpip filtered for 6max. That's as a result of shorter handed play (in reality the average ammount of players at a table is around 5). The larger my edge on the players at the table, the more hands I can open profitably, hence my VPIP also increases when I drop down from mid/high stakes to small stakes. If I make a play just to get in a spot but where I'd normaly fold (which I did several times in the series), I mention it every time in the video I think.
Posted over 3 years ago
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xziser
1 posts
Joined 07/2009
brus89
80 posts
Joined 01/2010
brus89
80 posts
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zenben
1270 posts
Joined 03/2009
Time Link to 00:55:49
Hey GC, love your series.
On The Q8o hand after getting flat called by the tight player when you cold 4bet and again after cbetting the AKTr board, you planned to 2 barrel the 9h turn hoping to get him off hands like AQ. I don't have any experience playing ultra deep like this, but how often would you expect a tight player to take this line with AQ here and then fold to the 2 barrel? If you have a strong perceived range, he could flat again with his GS to the nuts, and if you had a range with a lot of air due to your poor image, he should flat call for value to keep your air in with his top pair. So the way I see it, he should never get to the turn with AQ and choose to fold it...Does that make sense?
With your bad image, Wouldn't you expect villain to continue often with marginal hands and even raise stronger hands that you have 4 outs against? Is this less likely because you're so deep?
Posted about 3 years ago
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Prologion
2079 posts
Joined 03/2010
Time Link to 00:31:10
KJs:
I like your plan (betting turn - shoving river to make his weak holdings to fold there).
But after timing out, why in the hell you bluff the river?
I mean,
after not 2ndbarelling the A-turn, he often has SD-Value.
Do you think that after checking back the turn, you have now on the river enough FEQ?
I am not sure....
Posted about 3 years ago
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Prologion
2079 posts
Joined 03/2010
Time Link to 01:11:22
I think that in exactly this spot a delayed float is way better than a float on turn for your overall gameplan.
Reason:
His perceived range after C/raising this dry flop where he could not rep anything/much and now checking turn is just air.
So I would checkback here my toprange and my bluffcatchingrange.
To balance this, I love also to check back here my floats (my air) to take it down >95% on the river with a 1/3-PS-Bet.
This riverbetsize would be also my betsize with my toprange and any madehands to induce maybe some spazz + get some curiosity/frustrated calls....
Posted about 3 years ago
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