Full Ring No Limit Poker Forums

I've got villain running 17/13/5 over about 1k hands. He's stealing quite a bit (44%), but isn't auto-cbetting.



Full Tilt Poker $100.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 447440
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $213.25
MP1: $92.65
MP2: $183.70
CO: $206.75
BTN: $116.10
Hero (SB): $100.00
BB: $213.95
UTG: $101.30

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with T 9
4 folds, CO raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50, 1 fold

Flop: ($7.00) 2 T 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Turn: ($7.00) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $6.50, CO calls $6.50

River: ($20.00) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $14.00, CO raises to $40, Hero folds

Final Pot: $48.00
CO wins $47.15
(Rake: $0.85)

I feel that everything's standard up until the river, but I'm pretty baffled by his river raise. I opted to fold because I just don't see what he can be bluffing with on the river, but his value range is pretty damn narrow and the only thing that makes sense is a slowplayed set or Q9. I haven't seen villain turning made hands into bluffs, either, but a hand like 78 might opt to do just that. Any other thoughts on ranges here?

ummmm yeah i mean seems like a standard enough fold. if you've seen him showing down bluffs in this spot then your price actually isn't too bad to look him up here. but without that read i'm not too excited about calling.

i probably wouldn't flat T9s oop pre tho. just seems kinda marginal and not sure how often you'll be getting sick value on ur hand being oop.

Against a range this wide, I really feel like T9s is too strong to fold. Against villains who cbet too often, we'll have a lot of spots where we can c/r bluff flops with some decent equity. Against an opponent like this one who won't auto-cbet, we'll get to see a free turn a decent % and play our hand from there. What's your line pre here, Disco?

I think preflop could go either way, it all depends on villains fold to 3 bet and postflop play.
Folding the river here is fine

what do you think what he's got, which has us beat? Q9/Q7?

also if he isn't auto cbetting i'd often bet the flop, cause the turn isn't going to be that nice

PF - anything wrong with a 3bet? I mean he's stealing 44%.

Post flop - I would not be surprised to see KJ here. And I see some regs calling with air on the turn like this to see if you give up on the river and he can take the pot down. KdJd makes no sense, as you would expect a cbet.

I think other hands do include Q8 or Q7....although at this point he must be aware that you might have a set. J8 sounds reasonable also and sets he's slowplayed for 2 streets, being well aware your range is wide and you might barrel twice with air.

Think you're beat though so good fold.

What's your line pre here, Disco?

pretty much always a fold for me unless i feel like fucking around with villain.

PF - anything wrong with a 3bet? I mean he's stealing 44%.

3 betting someone based on their opening range is incorrect. If you 3 bet someone you want to be ahead of their continuing range not their opening range. 3 betting a hand like this would be entirely dependant on villains fold to 3 bet.
If I'm not 3 betting I'm flating preflop always.

If I'm not 3 betting I'm flating preflop always.

I'm curious about your particular reasonings for always flatting this pre. Obviously you feel your doing this profitably or you wouldn't be doing it, but I'm just curious what your doing postflop that makes this a profitable call for you? Are you c/c floating air, are you c/r air, obviously your not just playing fit or fold. When you do decide you c/c float or c/r what type of flop textures are you looking to do this on.

Also, if you just flop a mediocre 9xx or Txx, what line do u take to get max value out of your hands?

Do you consider not flatting pre if BB is an agro 3better?

If I'm not 3 betting I'm flating preflop always.

Against ALL Villain types??? Against Phil Ivey?

I'm curious about your particular reasonings for always flatting this pre. Obviously you feel your doing this profitably or you wouldn't be doing it, but I'm just curious what your doing postflop that makes this a profitable call for you? Are you c/c floating air, are you c/r air, obviously your not just playing fit or fold. When you do decide you c/c float or c/r what type of flop textures are you looking to do this on.

Also, if you just flop a mediocre 9xx or Txx, what line do u take to get max value out of your hands?

Do you consider not flatting pre if BB is an agro 3better?

When I say I'm always flating if I'm not 3 betting I meant against the player type in OP's exampe, the players with a high steal %. If a player is 10/8 with a 12% attempt to steal I'm simply folding 910s preflop.

I'm not playing fit/fold poker I'm c/r with air and c/c floating with air a certain % of the time. When I choose to do this, it depends on villains cbet frequency and board textures.

When I say I'm always flating if I'm not 3 betting I meant against the player type in OP's example, the players with a high steal %.

+1

When I say I'm always flating if I'm not 3 betting I meant against the player type in OP's exampe, the players with a high steal %. If a player is 10/8 with a 12% attempt to steal I'm simply folding 910s preflop.

I'm not playing fit/fold poker I'm c/r with air and c/c floating with air a certain % of the time. When I choose to do this, it depends on villains cbet frequency and board textures.

Agreed. I mean if a guy is stealing 44% of the time I don't see just taking T9s and folding it. We can totally take this hand that often flops equity and use that backup equity to move our opponent off of hands.

Also agree that it's a hand that I may very well 3-bet depending on how my opponent plays.