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Poker Video: No Limit Hold'Em by WiltOnTilt (Micro/Small Stakes)

I really don't think that you are going to get called any lighter. The reason that it works to bet less is that the players are very unaware about your bet sizing. Their view is that they are going to either fold or call, it doesn't matter if the bet is 4.5, 5.5 or 6.5. So by betting less you are not committing as much to the pot, and improves your non-showdown winnings. As for betting more on flops that we hit, we need to do this to get all the money in by the river. For example if the pot is 7, we bet 5.5 and get called the pot is 18. The turn bet would be 15-16. Leaving a pot of 48. If we bet 6 on the flop pot is 19, 17 on the turn, a pot of 53. Leaving us in a slightly better position to shove (if stacks are full). So for betting slightly more we are going to improve our PT/BB and in the long run this adds up. It is useful to do this exercise with different flop bets to see how much it changes the river bet. Another thing to consider is what is the villans range? So what bet size will they call?

There is no really framework for double barrelling as there are so many dynamics to consider, flop texture, fold to turn bet, went to showdown for example.

I am sorry if I am coming a little later than others to this thread but I am a new member. Again, sorry if what I am going to ask has been discussed in future episodes. In the first three episodes it has been a common theme/idea to play exploitably against the unaware. I get the concept but when do you draw the line. There have been a few hands where, when you missed the flop and bet closer to 1/2 pot than your normal 2/3 to 3/4 pot so that if we get called down and lose we are losing less.

In these few cases you have been called on flop very lightly by A-high hands and sometimes even worse (Q-high for example). How often does this have to happen before you bet the same cbets size whether you connect with the flop or not? Are you saying that these bets are only being exploited if we are being 3-bet? Should we possibly be bluffing the turn if it comes a scare card like A or K for example?

I guess what I am trying to say is that when you bet less are you just natually going to get called on the flop much lighter than if you bet closer to pot? If this is true should we not be betting between 1/2 and 2/3 the pot more than 3/4 pot to pot. When you have aces preflop or flop a set, why bet so much do you not want action?

I am not critiquing here. I am a struggling SSNL player and I am just trying to get the most out of these. I'm gonna say sorry one more time, if these questions are too basic.

good questins mutley.

Usually the first time I see a guy i make a determination by his vpip/pfr to decide if he likely knows what's going on. For example, if I see a guy playing 22/17, i'm naturally going to assume that he's at least CAPABLE of having a clue, whereas if I see a guy playing 40/11 i'm going to straight up assume he has no clue. So that's the first step.

In generally once we make that step, we try to determine what we can get away with against each player. We're going to start off vs the 22/17 by balancing our bets more often and start off against the 40/11 by betting by hand strength more often.**** The reason we get away with betting a smaller % of the pot against the 40/11 is because our cbets against those players are mostly designed to get him off the "air" portion of his range. So when thinking of the range of a guy with a 40vpip, he's going to have pairs (smallest part), weak draws (a little larger part), and air (biggest part of his range), so by betting closer to half pot -- (especially on dry boards like A72r vs QxJdTd -- see why?) we give ourselves a better price on our bluff and therefore a higher EV on our cbet. When we have a set vs those types, it doesnt matter if we bet 90% of pot and he folds a lot -- why? because when he folds he has the "air" part of his range, but we maximize vs him when he actually does have something -- like a weak draw or pair because he's not folding those hands.

Also you do bring up a good point though, if we find our small bets are getting peeled more often (only one way to find out, right?) then you're right we do need to consider adjusting by either firing more barrels or by betting a bigger % of the pot to begin with. Again, it's partially an exercise in figuring out what they will let us get away with... and this gets us into all that "adjusting to the player" stuff that everyone always talks about.

Hope that helps a little.

Aaron

**** what you should get away from this part is not that all 22/17 guys are good thinking players and all 40/11 guys aren't capable of adjusting to your bet size, what i mean is that you have to have a baseline for categorizing how some unknown with these stakes thinks and acts... and it's much more likely that a 22/17 is thinking about whats going on (read: is more "aware") than a 40/11, so we base our defaults on that. As always, pay attention and see if you can think about what each guy is thinking... and if each guy is capable of adjusting to your varied bet sizes etc. it's not easy, but it's worth working on. This is part of the reason that you see most videos at other websites saying "well i bet 3/4 pot here because well i'd always bet 3/4 pot here with weak hands and strong hands and if i don't i'll be exploitable and they will catch on" it's the lazy approach to poker with some sprinkled in logic about unexploitability -- to which i reply "bullshit"

Thanks Aaron. That made good sense.

You need to work on the audio alittle bit. Wilt and jka's voice is really low and the other guy comes in booming....I find myself turn the volume up and down based on who's talking...

Good vid though.

Hate to see you run bad, but it does make me feel better to see some of the same stuff happen to other people that has been happening to me lately and to have the coaches verify that the play is correct despite the poor results.

Really enjoying the series so far.

My first post, excited about being a part of deuces cracked and I can see how it'll really help my game.

I been watching the videos in this series so far and I think they're really helpful. Watched a couple eps of the coaching tree too and there are a lot of ideas floating around that are similar.

I see you not raising hands like AXo or KXs a lot on the button, whereas in the coaching tree they recommend these types of hands with high value cards to open with on the button. Idea is that they have showdown value and will win more often than say 65s will. Also if the flop comes down KQx we can get good value from a Q etc.
So what's your rationale on these types of hands? Do you not play them because you simply think that they are a bit tricky for a beginner or do you not agree with the concept?

Also they advocate playing pots in position against players who you think are pretty bad. Especially when we're slightly deep stacked then it becomes more profitable since we can float more, and our implied odds go up a bunch with hands like AXs.

In relation to this point at 39:00 ish you fold A4ss to FastET's raise even though you have position and are sitting at ~$65. I would say that considering his low fold to 3b that maybe it's not profitable to 3bet since we lack some FE but his cbet % is only 44 over a relatively large sample.
He's raising 19% of his hands and has a 28% steal so I think there's value in calling and seeing a flop. Maybe it's because you wanted to go over the 45ss hand a bit more in detail but I was just wondering

In the 45ss hand where we river a flush you say it's definitely a raise/fold and I agree that we're prob not being raised with worse here, but at what point do we call off a shove? Ace high flush? King high? Ten high? etc.

*edit* - Editing as I watch more of the video lol, do you not advocate opening hands like Kx, Q7+ in the SB? What hands do you open from that position?
I also agree with another comment that you tell him what to do quite a lot more than letting him make a mistake and then talking about why it was bad or what you would have been doing differently. Otherwise it might as well just be Wilt playing. Even down to just bet sizing lol.

you brought up a lot of various points in this post so i'll try to make a bit of a general reply to hit them.

I think raising hands like Ax and Kx as a newbie to 6max NL is ok on the button provided that the peoeple in the blinds either have a reasonable fold to cbet% or they simply don't defend much. While it's true those have some showdown value and therefore with position we can get to showdown with the best hand a lot, it's sort of a flawed concept unless you're actively checking back a lot of flops. If we're following most standard practices by cbetting these hands on dry boards, it's not very often we get into a spot where we cbet king high and get called, turn is a blank and it goes check/check, river he bets and we call. Since that doesn't happen that much, it's less relevant that Ax and Kx have some sort of inherent showdown value. The more experience you get and the more you know about your opponents, the more hands you can play. That's nothing revolutionary. If you're new to 6max NL and you're just starting out, i think you'd probably do better by folding K2o on the button vs typical .25/.50 opponents.

for the A4s hand, if we're calling in position we'd prefer he has a higher cbet% and a higher steal % therefore we could steal the flop more often. If you're trying to make an implied odds argument then i'd rather his cbet be lower and his steal be lower. I'm not saying you cannot show a profit here, and I didn't re-watch the entire vid since we made this half a year ago or something, but it's not an auto call for most people learning poker at these stakes because they aren't good enough hand readers to get to showdown with the best hand/fold when beaten/steal when appropriate. If you want to play these hands to try out things, that's one thing, but if you're trying to teach people how to be solid winners when they are new to 6max NL then these types of spots are best to be avoided for most people.

lastly for your comment about what hands to open from the sb, if the bb is passive and sucks, i dont mind opening lots of hands, but vs anyone who has the slightest clue opening hands like Q7 and K4 are not going to show a profit for most people. Good players are not opening hands like A4o against me at say 10/20nl sb vs bb because they are at such a disadvantage oop with a hand that doesn't play the flop well against a player who is going to make their postflop life miserable.

Again, all this is general stuff, and as i've taught throughout both season 1 and 2 of RL:MNLG you have to try to figure out what you can get away with vs all of your opponents.

Also I don't really get all the "lol"s in your post. Maybe I'm reading them in a more negative light than you intended... but if you think there are some clearly incorrect plays in this video (such as opting to fold Kx from the sb vs a reasonable player) that have not been touched upon in the last 6 months of this thread then let me be the first to dispel that idea.

WoT

I count 2 "lol"'s and they were in the edited section. The first being that I was really into the video at the time and couldn't wait to make a post so simply posted before finishing and realised I had more questions after.
The last one I guess could be taken negatively but it wasn't intended that way. Merely just an observation and these videos as I watch them more are useful because of Alex's questions and comments about the hands.

So sorry if you got the wrong idea. I would rather question everything I don't understand than just sit back and accept these ideas as gospel. That's not saying I know better, I'm really trying to find out the leaks in my game and work on them and I obviously have some or I wouldn't still be in the micros right?

I think I understand why raising hands like Ax and Kx aren't as useful as I had first thought because of the reasons you state. So if we aren't raising hands such as A4o on the button are we making up for it by raising more connected hands? Say 9To or 45s?
I guess it also depends on who is in our blinds. If we have looser more passive players in the blinds are we raising more high card hands than suited connectors since they will fold less often than say tag regulars? We know that tighter players won't go to showdown as much but might 3bet us more so we should be comfortable with hands like 78s because we can call a 3bet in position with that type of hand?

In the A4s hand what types of hands would you suggest cold calling with there preflop if any? If we have a couple of high cards are we raising them for value against this guy even though his stats aren't super laggy? So for example would we be cold calling with QJs because it has good equity in a multiway pot or are we raising because he'll call with worse and we can isolate him to ourselves?

Finally back onto the SB vs BB. If the BB is a pretty good TAG then are we just folding it to him a lot instead of trying to steal? Being OOP sucks I agree so what types of hands are the best to be raising here?

Sorry for all the questions, I appreciate you taking the time to come back to the thread and answering them

Clar

Time Link to 00:25:05

Minute 25, (sorry, I edited the post and it deleted the time link)


Hi Alex and Wilt, when that 6c hit the river with your set and lets say villain checked to us on the river instead of jammed, would you advise just shoving the river for value, even though like you said everything came in? I'd assume yes since we ended up calling his donk shove for the price, than you.

Time Link to 00:35:38

Why are we folding T9s in the small blind here on table 2? I don't think the BB is a big squeezer, isn't this too tight to fold? Shouldn't we be calling or 3-betting this?

-TY

What a fascinating discussion in this thread. Particularly WoT laying his ideas about exploitability up against opposing thoughts on the subject.

Ultimately the correct play is the one that will work at that time against that villain. Not some preset idea about what is THE correct play.

The Jeet Kuen Do of poker... Bruce Lee's no-fixed-ideas approach.

"Be water my friend..."

Time Link to 00:05:04

One of my admittedly sad leaks at times - I've gotten much better since joining and studying more - is just hating the fact that I think I'm being stolen from. This has been one of my worst forms of tilt: just not wanting to be taken advantage of, bullied, etc. I don't want to think of that guy over there laughing about stealing the pot from me with a big bluff.

That said, I just want to remind those of you that have ever struggled in this area as I have that it is totally OK to let pots go like that, when you don't have enough information, or when other factors come into play. I know that over time missing out on certain spots can be -EV, but at these levels, most of us are learners (most of us at DC at least) and so it's OK to be "bullied" a bit. At this level too, these people will play anything and play hands in all sorts of bizarre ways, so waiting for more information is not a bad play.

Just sharing. : )

Time Link to 00:36:22

I actually cheered and applauded - all by myself in my office at nearly 3am - when I saw Alex win that hand. Go Alex Go!

Time Link to 00:15:22

whats your thought process when that 50/5 player shoves the flop on you?

Time Link to 00:34:11

Can you please expand on the concept of 2 barreling people with low fold vs 3B %