The problem with Friedman there is that he does not account for the exploitation of workers. That is why Sneakers said that unions were a good thing at the beginning. Unions are terribly flawed now, but they don't have to be. Even the critics of unions such as Friedman make a basic assumption about unions based on what they are now. Hazlitt is better, but still can be easily argued against.
i know you like arguing, man, but this is really kind of pointless if you have no interest in digesting the material i'm using to back up my arguments and instead resort to making flippant ad hominem remarks about one of the greatest minds of this past century in his field of expertise (tho it's nothing too bad, you basically assume Friedman is incompetent). if i was referencing some random economic paper by Dr. nobody, sure, tear that down all day. but do you think someone as eminent as Friedman has not thought through this 1000x deeper than you or i?
i mean, if it's just like "fu man i'm not reading a whole book and watching a 10 hour documentary to argue about it in a thread, i know this already," then fine. you know what you know and it's been nice talking to you. but if you want to convince me of something, you have to do more than make these weak rebuttals constantly without providing any references for why you believe what you believe or give me something which i can sink my teeth into on my own time. what great mind (other than your own) has influenced you?
frankly, i don't know why you're in threads like these. but for me, i want to learn new things and constantly examine my beliefs for biases and weaknesses. if i have weak beliefs, i'll dump it without a second thought and i'll proclaim that i was a retard for having believed in it. whatever, i've been wrong in the past and ill be wrong again in the future.
anyways... i reserve the right to not reply further in this thread.
L. WILLIAMS: Can't we get some __ can't we get some perspective in this, Walter. Talking about unions down through the ages makes no sense at all in terms of where we're at now in this century at this time. This business of trying to relate where unions come from to the, to the medical profession and Hippocratic oaths, Hippocratic oaths or hypocritical oaths, however one looks at that, back in the Greek aeons really have very little relevancy.
W. WILLIAMS: Yes it does.
L. WILLIAMS: The violence, see hear me out a minute , I waited patiently.
W. WILLIAMS: Okay, okay.
L. WILLIAMS: The violence it's associated with __ well, not so patiently, but I waited. The violence associated with the labor movement and so on have been minimal and was a reaction in this century, not over the ages, a reaction in this century to the violence done workers by corporation and powerful economic groups when there was no workers' organization to protect them and no way to deal with their greed and with their power __
MCKENZIE: Okay. Now, now I'm turning to Milton because he's heard the flavor of the discussion.
FRIEDMAN: Sure. What Lynn Williams is now saying is utter nonsense. There's no other __ no two ways about it. The conditions of the worker in this country before there was labor unions were very important __ improved very greatly. You cannot tell me the millions of people, my parents, your parents, for all I know, parents of many people around, came to this country from Europe in order to be exploited and in order to be subjected to violence. Of course, there were incidents of violence.
FRIEDMAN: If we __ if we go back, the violent __ there was violence, of course, there always has been violence. It's not excusable, I'm not excusing violence on the part of anyone, but I agree with Mr. Green and with Walter Williams that people should be free to organize. Of course they should be free to organize. What I object to is the special privileges that have been given by government to labor unions which are not available to other groups at all. When labor unions have used violence in industrial disputes they are not subjected to the same sanctions as people ordinarily are. When cars are turned over in the course of a labor dispute, how often do people go to jail as a result of it?