Off Topic Poker Forums

over 100k 20.1%

Assuming these figures are correct, I was surprised that > 20% make 6 figures or more. That makes my dream of making 6 figures in the near future seem both more attainable and less special.

I can't say if this is true or not (no facts in front of me) but I will suggest it's a very dangerous assumption to operate from. If we start from 'well, they wouldn't be poor if they were good with money' then the entire discussion will be skewed. It would be as damaging as having 'well, poor people wouldn't be poor if they weren't so lazy' as one of our base assumptions. I'm not in a position to say if either of these statements are true or not, but we can't assume they are and start from there.

Also - you seem to suggest in the second paragraph that all poor people are unemployed. This is patently false, there is a large and growing population of 'working poor'. I can't say why this is (again, no research in front of me) but it's another dangerous assumption to start from.

Yes, I simplified things a lot. I was just trying to point out that poor people might very well buy a TV they cannot afford.

And yes.. some people with jobs are actually poor.

Yes, I simplified things a lot. I was just trying to point out that poor people might very well buy a TV they cannot afford.

And yes.. some people with jobs are actually poor.

Ah, ok. I'm on board with that. Poor people certainly make bad financial decisions. Not all and not all the time, but it is one of the many factors contributing to their poverty.

What kind of "good" financial decisions can a poor person make that will lead them out of poverty? The entrance costs to middle-class professions are generally much higher than the available wealth someone in poverty has.

What kind of "good" financial decisions can a poor person make that will lead them out of poverty? The entrance costs to middle-class professions are generally much higher than the available wealth someone in poverty has.

Buy a gun and rob a bank?

Making good financial decisions, such as saving $ to go to community college or something, will never be the end all be all decision that will lift them magically, but I feel like it's a situation where a lot of little things can add up. The ascension still seems rather difficult, but that doesn't mean there aren't things that can be done to at least help.

What kind of "good" financial decisions can a poor person make that will lead them out of poverty? The entrance costs to middle-class professions are generally much higher than the available wealth someone in poverty has.

This is a very good and extremely deep question. If you're making minimum wage, or close to it, you can make all the right financial decisions and still be breakeven or in the red.

Financial minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Let's be generous and say you're making $10/hour. $10/hour * 40 hours/week * 52 weeks/year = $20,800. Before any taxes you may pay (probably little to no income tax). Best case scenario is that you're young, single, with no dependents. In that case, you could sustain yourself on that salary. Maybe get a roommate and cut down on rent. Eat rice/beans every day to cut down on food costs. Be lucky enough to live close enough to your work/grocery store/doctor/etc. that you can walk, bike, or use public transit. Best case scenario - you can break even, maybe save a few bucks, and take out loans to get an education or valuable skill set. But when? You're working full time - so either take night classes (are there any close enough to you? no? well, you can't afford a car/payments/insurance/gas) or quit your job and go to school full time. Take out a mountain of loans to do so.

That's best case scenario and happens. There are a lot of people who do exactly what I described and succeed. They buckle down, take the lumps, get the education/skill set and get a good job. And it's a wonderful thing.

But make it 'realistic scenario'. Change any of those factors and it becomes difficult to impossible. Throw in raising a kid as a dependent - very expensive. How about being in a rural area that requires a car/car payments/insurance (you can skimp and get a clunker to avoid payments, but it will break down so you're still pumping money into it one way or another). What if you're expected to look after your ailing parents? How about if you have a medical condition that costs money?

So yea - I just wanted to illustrate sweetjazz's point. Even making the 'best' financial decisions is often not enough for people stuck in a cycle of poverty.

Rant over - I apologize that I am not citing any sources or research. I don't usually like to post this stuff without some objective backup.

Buy a gun and rob a bank?

Not if everyone at the bank had a gun.

Not wanting to derail, but you can be a CEO of an investment bank that acquires a massive portfolio of toxic assets, have the government bail your company out, and then walk away with literally tens of millions of dollars in annual pay.

The major inequality in America is that the poor judgments / decisions are a lot more costly the less wealth (and access to regulatory powers) that you have. The correlation between good decision making and hard work on the one hand, and wealth and well-being on the other is quite weak.

I agree. I define being "poor" as having little to no disposable income. While it's reasonable to assume someone under X income has little or no disposable income, that assumption doesn't hold true for higher incomes.

Housing prices are (still despite the bubble bursting) out of whack with income levels. One can still have a house, a car, and a job yet still be poor.

disposable income is usually defined as all sources of money minus taxes. you're talking about discretionary income, and i agree it's hard to debate that since i'm super cheap sometimes (breaking out the pennies to pay for stuff, getting tap water at restaurants, etc). and i find it weird that people think a house is a necessity. i consider any living quarter that's not exposed to the elements a necessity, a house is a luxury imo.

Assuming these figures are correct, I was surprised that > 20% make 6 figures or more. That makes my dream of making 6 figures in the near future seem both more attainable and less special.

household income, not individual income. you can still be special one day.

but it's interesting to note that as you go down the household income scale, families get smaller and there's usually 1 wage earner or less. which goes against the idea of working poor families who are still poor even though they try hard. from the popular images of the underclass i had in my mind, i expected there to be 2 wage earners all the way to the very bottom.

household income, not individual income. you can still be special one day.

Oh, missed that Wahoo!

Just saw this story scroll across my Facebook. The infographic is interesting.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/08/01/157664524/how-the-poor-the-middle-class-and-the-rich-spend-their-money?utm_source=fp&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20120801

Making good financial decisions, such as saving $ to go to community college or something, will never be the end all be all decision that will lift them magically, but I feel like it's a situation where a lot of little things can add up. The ascension still seems rather difficult, but that doesn't mean there aren't things that can be done to at least help.

It is not impossible, but IMO for the most part so difficult it merges with impossible.
I can give two examples. I've already talked about one kid from work who got into 4 colleges and can't pay to go (he also got his Congressional invite to Annapolis, but didn't get selected). And he has a lot of support from his mom and prep school etc., and did volunteer and after school programs for years. he can't afford community college. He's hoping to get the navy to pay for him to go to a school in FL.
Another kid was part of our Summer Leadership Internship this summer. It's basically a program where high school kids who come get paid $500 to attend classes on a college campus. They get 4 checks, and one of their dads called to ask when his son would get his last check - clearly because he needed/was going to use it. It is really, really, really hard to save for anything for the poor.

I def agree Steppin. I'm not sure what the solution is though. Reallocation of current tax money is a necessity based on how unbelievably inefficient government spending is and that could help.