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Villain is 23/15, but no specific reads. was this a fold on my end?


Merge Network $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1753288
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MP: $10.00
CO: $12.01
BTN: $10.00
SB: $10.00
Hero (BB): $12.21
UTG: $3.50

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with J J
1 fold, MP raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.55, MP calls $1.25, 1 fold, BTN calls $1.25

Flop: ($5.00) 5 6 6 (3 players)
Hero bets $3.75, MP calls $3.75, BTN folds

Turn: ($12.50) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $4.70 all in, Hero calls $4.70

River: ($21.90) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

I'm struggling to work out what happened?

Um...

So you squeeze with JJ there. What sort of read did you have on HJ and BTN that made you want to squeeze? What sort of range do you give HJ.... and almost just as important, BTN?

HJ is going to be strong due to being sandwiched the rest of the hand. Why would he call instead of 4bet? I don't know.. there are a few possibilities, but something for you to think about (one reason, he wants BTN to put more money in or backshove, another reason is that he's too good to fold, not quite good enough to 4bet)... in either situation, you can get an idea of his holding. With BTN, what sort of hand would he 1. call IP pre, and then 2. call IP pre! This is a very defined range, though wider than HJ.

It's important to note that you're basically at the BOTTOM of your range here. HJ's value range is ahead of you almost certainly. BTN is likely set mining or trying to flop a monster.
On the flop, you cbet too much IMO. A nut flush draw will just stick it in there, and his value range (still ahead of you mind you) will call. Perhaps some of his NFD will call there, but he lacks implied odds given your cbet size and stack depth (so calling there is actually a poor play, which is entirely possible here)
The turn doesn't change the board really. You don't have enough stack to make a convincing barrel/bluff to fold out better, and you're effectively pot committed. Sucks. Bet the flop smaller next time, IMO.

I can't say this enough, you're at the bottom of your range, I'm almost sure. I don't think I'm ever squeezing JJ there, and might not even squeeze QQ there! (just depends on the dynamics I suppose)

I really think you misplayed this flop quite terribly. Given BTN's strategy and the rare instance that HJ flats the squeeze with like AQs or something and given that BTN still has to act in the hand when he faces your cbet, I just think your overall strategy is flawed and not taking into consideration each of their respective ranges and how they'll play certain portions of those ranges. Otherwise, you would not be cbetting so large here... it really works against you not only for the turn, but also in what portion of the their ranges you're targeting given their strategy against you. IMO.

I'm struggling to work out what happened?

he squeezed and got 2 callers.

Drawy flop comes and he cbets huge into the pot while multiway... one calls, one folds.

he checks a scary turn, MP jams all in for 1/3rd pot, he calls...

he squeezed and got 2 callers.

Drawy flop comes and he cbets huge into the pot while multiway... one calls, one folds.

he checks a scary turn, MP jams all in for 1/3rd pot, he calls...

Have you got any friends?

Have you got any friends?

just the ones my mommy pays for

Have you got any friends?

OP calls himself stupid

good post stueyskid

just the ones my mommy pays for

hahaahahahah

Yeah I'm an idiot. So question, do I ever raise preflop with JJ? If so in what situations. I thought it was a strong hand that you almost always raise. Sorry for the ignorance.

Yeah I'm an idiot. So question, do I ever raise preflop with JJ?

Yes, often.

If so in what situations.

When you want value.

I thought it was a strong hand that you almost always raise. Sorry for the ignorance.

Usually, but not always. You wouldn't want to 3 bet a nitty player's UTG open with it.

What about a 3-4 person pot with MP, CU, you as the BTN, and the BB. Would you raise in that situation? Assume you have no reads for situation 1. And situation 2 there's 2 nits 2 fish.

I have never played these stakes, and I know these games tend to be really nitty so I might be either out of touch, or delusional, but StueysKid's analysis seems way overly pessimistic to me.

The operative stat in this case is going to be MP1's fold to 3-bet, but we're without a read so we don't exactly know. The other factor, is that the multi way nature of this pot means that I think contrary to prior analysis, MP1 is peeling your 3-bet with a wider range than normal....

Think about it. At 10NL, it's highly unlikely that the CO and the Button are flatting premium hands to back raise a squeeze from the blinds. I mean, unless you have been very conspicuously 3-balling every single LP open, you're not getting trapped at 10NL. People aren't often squeezing light from the blinds at these stakes, so MP1 isn't operating on the logic that "Oh well, the CO and BTN called and then the BB squeezed, they might be flatting really strong hands they're going to jam with after I call so I'd better tighten up my range to this squeeze play." This is really overthinking the state of 10NL. MP1 is more likely thinking "okay, I raised, got two callers, and then then the BB raised. The CO and the BTN might come along and if I hit I can win a huge pot." His range is probably pretty speculative.

While I think that pre flop, flatting in this case has merit, raising for is fine because I think you're going to get it. I think that MP1 and others are mistakenly going to try to flop sets or something with suited connectors often enough that there is value in your squeeze. I mean, are the games really that nitty where we're saying that it's too thin raise for value against an MP1 open and two calls with JJ?

So you 3-bet and get called in two places. I think this is a spot at 10NL where we can actually be nearly certain that you do have the best hand. I think at the lower stakes you get jammed on pre by AK+. People at this stakes are mostly terrified of post flop play, so I think that you can pretty much eliminate at least AK, QQ, and KK from everyone's range. People are afraid of bricking AK, and worried about overcards with KK and QQ. Even AA tends to get a little too jumpy and 4-bets your pretty often, so I think JJ is good here a tremendous amount of the time.

Flop come down 665 two club. There are no overcards, there is a flush draw, and we have a very shallow STP ratio. If you got outflopped by 55, 56s, 67s, 68s, then that sucks. I see basically no circumstance in which I'm willing to bet/fold here. I also think checking here is terrible for reasons that are pretty obvious. So let's talk about betsizing. I don't think the betsize is that awful. At this level, I don't think your opponents are reading too much into your sizing, they're going to be very consumed with the strength of their hand. And as far as balance is concerned, don't worry about it yet. Maybe they'll think something like "well, he raised pre flop and then made a big bet that looks like it doesn't want to be called, I have 77, 88, 99, TT, he probably has AK, I'm going with it."

So you c-bet 3.75 and get called which does not bode well for us at all. I'd expect flush draws and overpairs to jam the flop, so when MP1 just calls with a player behind, I think you're drawing to two outs here a lot, although I could see him flatting the nut flush draw with a speculative suited ace. When the turn comes same 4 and you don't have a club, it's pretty much finished for you. At 10NL, you MIGHT be able to find a fold on the turn, and I'm not kidding, but I can't really blame you calling it off getting better than 3.5:1.

My guess is that you lost to some hand with a 6 in it, but given the potsize on the flop and your flop bet, I don't really think there's anything that you can do. As StueysKid mentioned, bet smaller on the flop but I mean, pot is bloated so what can you do?

I def. think 3-balling JJ pre is fine here though. I mean if you can't 3-bet JJ here, what can you 3-bet? Bluffs, and AK+?

squeezing JJ is all dependent on dynamics IMO, and at 10NL, the 3bet game usually isn't very aggro and is typically narrow. It's possible that hijack raises, then calls TT and 99, and maybe a whole bunch of suited broadway stuff. I see backshoves often, and I've seen PURPOSEFUL pre-flop calls looking to backshove a premium there... I know because I felt stupid calling it off with QQ or whatever.
As the 3b dynamic goes up, so too must the value portion of the range... but at 10NL on merge, I don't think 1 at the whole table will have 8% over a large sample.
Either way, JJ is squeezable, but it's at the bottom of a range typically because TT should almost always flat multiway unless there's a reason not to (like players are spazzy, spewy, or flat out suck).
The bigger issue here isn't what holding he's squeezing with, it can be any two cards IMO, I don't care... it's really what he does on the flop GIVEN HJ's strategy & BTN's strategy with certain types of hands (paired in particular)

Good post.

I think the dynamic can change immensely if he opened in c/o, where his range is wider.

Is that right Stuey?

Also if his perceived range is wider. Think about it, in the CO, he expects you to squeeze wider, so his continuation range will be wider. If he opened UTG, he expects you to 3bet much narrower... though, I've found that so many squeezers (at these micro levels) either don't think about this, or they do and don't realize that they squeeze so damn much that their line is transparent.
Also, on the flop, hero is targeting missed overs and I suppose worse PPs (though there aren't that many of them)... when he goes the size he does, sucks, hand is over. The same can be said of BTN (though he's wider in general, and this time he folded anyway).

So yeah, CO open would make a big difference simply because you expect him to view your squeeze as wider than maybe it is, and that he'll bluff catch lighter as a result.