General Poker Discussion Poker Forums

It is very easy to have sessions with 5-10BI swings.

I'm thinking of just investing a bit more money... because the rake is a bitch in low limits.

Unfortunately, your risk is far higher than that. The stats used do not take into account that poker is dynamic. One week your EV may drop, or you may face collusion, or something else happens, and that 0.15% becomes 8% or even way more, but you won't figure that out for a long time.

You raise some valid points but you have to consider that RoR calculator doesn't take rakeback into consideration, and rakeback will significantly help mitigate losses.

correct usage of the calculator should have your winrate inclusive of rakeback.

Unfortunately I don't get rakeback, only VIP points. So how do I use the calculator exactly?

I think 20BI can be fine if you are willing to move down if things go wrong. Your goal should be to get out of the micros as quickly as possible so being really conservative with your bankroll is a mistake imo.

why is micro rake so much worse?

What level does it even out so you dont have to worry about rake being too high.

why is micro rake so much worse?

What level does it even out so you dont have to worry about rake being too high.

Most sites rake 5% with a cap of $3, although some sites rake ultra high stake games up to $5

A $200 pot at 100nl for example is raked $3, which represents 1.5% of the pot.
A $20 pot at 10nl is raked $1, which is the full 5%

Basically the rake at 25nl and lower is brutal and the higher you move up the lower rake becomes as a percentage of the pot.

edit: Also if the site uses a volume based VIP program like Stars for example, the micro players gets shafted again because they are most likely a low tier in the VIP program and receive less back than SuperNova's.

Unfortunately I don't get rakeback, only VIP points. So how do I use the calculator exactly?

Figure out how many points you generate per 100 hands, and multiply that by the value of the points.
Take that number and divide by the amount of the big blind.

For example you generate 25 points per 100 hands, at a value of 0.016 for each point. = $0.4
0.4/.25 if you play 25nl = 1.6 bb/100.

In this example you would add 1.6 to whatever your bb/100 winrate is, and it will make the RoR calculator more accurate.

Unfortunately I don't get rakeback, only VIP points. So how do I use the calculator exactly?

Some sites like Party and Stars only do a vip point style rakeback but lots of the others do and it is worth trying to get it as it can easily amount to 15+% of your winrate at the micros and gets higher the higher the level you play at.
You may be able to simply request rakeback on some sites - some rakeback sites may be able to help, DC does some rb deals and I've heard these are a reasonably trustable bunch . On some sites you might be able to simply transfer to another affliate skin site but do be careful how you pick one these days some will be more stable than others.

Yeah I use Lock Poker, I don't think they do it.

This is the thing, here's how my average day goes in poker:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/525/screenshot20120427at123.png/

my bb/100 is 23.53/100 for today's session. 12.87/100 for this week. 14.19/100 for the last 10k hands.

This is why I want to move up, and waiting till 500 BI might be crazy.

but do you guys suggest I stay? Or move up, but if I go under 20, move right back down? Would this process make it potentially longer in the.. long run?

Pretty sure everyone has given you all the advice you need with regards to BR management. And everyone agrees that getting out of the micros as quickly as possible is the best idea.

Moving up not only will help you pay less rake but will help you develop skill wise by playing tougher opponents.

For me its 20 BIs all the way until 100NL (unless you need to stay at a certain stake because you aren't yet good enough to move up - think this is the only acceptable consideration imo)

Yes thank you. But when do I move down? What if I go through a bad swing and lose 3 BI's, do I stop it before?

If you are going for 20BI then you need to set a stop loss before moving back down, something like 2-5 BIs

I think the most important consideration, isn't how many bi's you have, but how you react. If your too scared to 4bet get it in with a hand you would at a lower stake etc. how you react to a bad beat etc. plus confidence is a big factor. I understand the logic of moving up ASAP, but I also would like a decent win rate over a decent sample before doing so. It would suck to feel on top of the world to come crashing down. There's a good chance you'll lose 2-3 bis maybe more, so moving up when you have 20 and moving back down when you drop 2 or 3, doesn't seem logical to myself.