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+1 to lots of protein. I'd suggest even more than 150g. I've read recommendations of 1.5-2x body weight in grams. Have a shake before breakfast, a shake after workouts, and get yourself a huge water bottle and throw 6-7 scoops of powder in it and sip on it throughout the day.

Sugar is obviously unhealthy, but for hardgainers who need to bulk, just getting enough calories is the biggest priority. Obviously this is bad for long-term health, but in the short run the only way to put weight on for some hard-gainers is through excess caloric intake. You will put some fat on to go with the muscle, but that's fine. You then diet the fat off later while maintaining most of the muscle. It's very hard for people with non-freakish genetics to simultaneously gain weight while cutting or maintaining fat %. Therefore the solution for most hard gainers is to split it up into bulking phases and cutting phases.

Shakes and powder are not replacement for real food. I only drink those shakes after a work out. I think you can get more then enough protein from things like Tuna, or a good piece of meat.

Just saying

Shakes and powder are not replacement for real food. I only drink those shakes after a work out. I think you can get more then enough protein from things like Tuna, or a good piece of meat.

Just saying

Sure they are. Calories are calories. What is "real food"? In fact, isolated whey protein is a lot healthier than most of the protein you can get from meat, unless you buy organic. Not saying don't eat meat. Eat/drink both.

Eating lots of tuna is fine if you don't mind a lot of heavy metal in your brain. Stick to smaller fish that have less heavy metal imo.

Well. I disagree. To me, powder is a great add-on, it's not a replacement. But hey, everybody must decide what works for them. If you want to have an unbalanced meal where the bulk of your intake comes from a powder, then go for it ;p

I thought it was important enough to point it out to OP that there is a different aproach than yours

Hi,

Think I'm right in saying there are a few health/fitness geeks in the DC crowd. Could any one of you point me in the direction of some good online forums for that sort of thing. One with a decent level of traffic and good content on nutrition and weight training advice is what I'm after.


Thanks

Avoid bodybuilding.com, really avoid t-nation or testosterone.net like the plague.

Lyle Mcdonald is the first place for nutrition, and you don't need anywhere else really, if I were to look elsewhere it would be people he name drops.

For mass gain start here http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain

edit to say jackncoke mentioned the other guys

Shakes and powder are not replacement for real food. I only drink those shakes after a work out. I think you can get more then enough protein from things like Tuna, or a good piece of meat.

Just saying

I agree but it virtually wouldn't be possible for me to get high protein on reasonalbe diets without them.

Personally I would have to start having lean meats chicken beef etc. for breakfast and I don't want to do that because it's disgusting and secondly too much time preparation. I am a picky eater to the extent any salads are totally bland and protein shakes make a huge difference to being able to control macronutrients for me.

Starting strength is quite good, it's been a few years since I read it or the program so can't remember about the balance for back work. If it has no back work then that sucks.

Besides that Rippetoe is a bit funny and macho about weight training with too much emphasis on manly excercises. If power cleans are in there then he's aiming it at athletes, and powercleans are overrated for athletes. McDonald has had a running tiff with him online and points out flaws in his thinking

I'm saying this as a former olympic weightlifter where 90% of our training was manly exercises. Basic weightlifting for strength and mass gain is simple, easy to create once you find a good source to listen to. Finding the source is the problem though, online or in gyms.

About mass gain don't be fooled by bodybuilders and certain athletes. Drugs are rampant (in order of most used) in WSM, bodybuilding & powerlifting, and still in olympic weightlifting and probably T&F but they have to be a lot more careful in the latter two.

There are some guides online about what is reasonable to expect for mass gain. Probably a link from here if it isn't mentioned explicitly (a while since I read).

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html

I agree but it virtually wouldn't be possible for me to get high protein on reasonalbe diets without them.

Personally I would have to start having lean meats chicken beef etc. for breakfast and I don't want to do that because it's disgusting and secondly too much time preparation. I am a picky eater to the extent any salads are totally bland and protein shakes make a huge difference to being able to control macronutrients for me.

My powder intake is around excersise. Also at home, with cotton cheese (not sure if I am using the word I want to use now). The rest, I just get from meat, from eggs, without the yolk.. etc.

idk man. I just take it. I do love my protein shake when I am done training

Way too much protein unless you are on steroids. Google the truth about protein by brad pilon if in doubt.

Correct, protein powder is not a meal replacement it is a protein "supplement", the word supplement is key.

There are a few other reasons to eat protein besides rebuilding muscle or heavy weight training exercise or the like. I'm not going to buy a book by Brad Pilon so I can't evaluate what he's saying but there's a difference between how much you technically need and how much you might want to eat for all the benefits of higher protein diets.

There are a few other reasons to eat protein besides rebuilding muscle or heavy weight training exercise or the like. I'm not going to buy a book by Brad Pilon so I can't evaluate what he's saying but there's a difference between how much you technically need and how much you might want to eat for all the benefits of higher protein diets.

why are you not going to buy a brad pilon book?

I am not saying protein is bad. But, the same as some people take multi-vitamines but neglect on vegetables, people tend to use powder and think they now have found a nice way to not eat the dry chicken.

It's a supplement.

I said that as it would be the only way I could comment on what he's saying. Abot 99% or more of nutrition info is bad to terrible anyway though. Chances are he's not a good source. It's probably more complicated than he's claiming if he has one figure for all populations as one quick view of one article would suggest.

I'm not saying it's not a supplement. I know that it can help a lot of people whether they exercise or not, because of how little protein people eat generally, especially when dieting and when they start exercising. It would be a lot easier for everyone if they could eat well prepared home cooked meals three or four times a day instead of having to use supplements but most people are busy.

I wouldn't be able to eat as I want to eat now without the supplement. I wouldn't put up with eating the equivalent of 5 or more chicken breasts a day. It would have been more when I was weightlifting.

My friend tries to diet himself, he eats about 25-40 grams of protein a day, lots of carbs, low fat. He thinks it's healthy and ideal for weight loss.

ow yes. I mean, if you aren't capable because of time to eat 'real' food, i guess you are better of doing something then nothing. I don't think it's bad, i just think it's not the most optimal. But, like you said, if you don't have the time (which most of us don't) screw optimal, just be as efficient as you can be!

I am not in the no-carb camp. I use carbs on a moderate level. I train hard and a lot, it's impossible for me only eat the protein and have enough energy to get through the day and give kick ass during my work outs.

I stay away from refined food. I eat oatmeal, brinta, vegetables and fruits. Carbs are not the enemy, but I see your point. For people that are low on activity carbs aren't really that needed.

On the other hand (I found Brad's main site now) yes the broscience about protein in the extreme is silly so he's right to go against that.

I used to laugh how much optimal and optimality goes on in talk about nutrition and think it's really helped the supplement industry having that buzzword .

Once you know how much protein to eat and get that right first then there's plenty of room left for veg, fruit and for me treats quite often even on a weight loss diet, when I control calories well. Protein drinks help with that too because I can have a drink and know exactly how many calories I just had. I found it too difficult and a pain in the ass trying to work out calories every day with real food only.