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I don't know if I'd 3-bet pre. You're essentially turning QTo into a bluff, and there's plenty of hands that QT has value over.

If I'm going to take a bluffing line with QTo, I think I'd rather call and see a flop, followed by a half-pot C-bet on the flop. You win just as much if he's on a steal, but you risk only around $1.20, compared to $2.

Just calling QTo is probably the most -EV line you can take here being out of position.

Problem with calling is that you don't have any idea about villain's postflop tendencies, and you will miss the flop 2/3 of the time.

Why not cbet flop and barrel scare cards on the turn? If he has enough air / overcard hands in his range to make any postflop move profitable this prolly is the one.
After all what is he going to do about it? Bluff raise flop? Prolly not. Bluff raise turn? Definitely not.
Also you get to realise 3 streets of equity against his PP holdings since these aren't likely to raise anywhere in the hand either.

I think you played this hand wrong on every street.

That's fine but it would help me alot more if you explained why you think that, like the other posters have.

I don't mind the 3bet preflop, especially if we are thinking in terms of the long run and metagame. Folding may be the safest option. Calling is the worse thing you can do.

Postflop, if you are checking this flop, which is perfectly fine, then you should be checking this particular turn card. It doesn't improve your perceived range. If you had an overpair, you'd bet the flop. Your hand looks exactly like missed overs that missed the flop and is now trying to win the pot on the turn after the flop checks through.

ragelic: Im not the guy to explain this but you should check out Blah234's Apex predator series, he talks about it there.

Okay I will try this again. When I played this hand I was assuming that villain would open a wide range from the CO, and will fold a lot to 3bets. He can still 4bet me or call me but if he have enough combo's of air, I expect the 3bet to be +ev. It's not like I can't c/f when he calls me. Now, as you pointed out it was quite optimistic of me to assume he have a range that wide as an unknown. Im not hoping that he calls me here nor do I think I can double/triple barrel him alot when he calls me.

Just had a look Blahs series is aimed at current 100NL, not micros. Wide range as in how wide? Why fold to a lot of 3 bets when he's in position? People call a lot OOP at these stakes let alone IP.

I may try this after a few orbits and villain's ATS is very high and villain still looks like TAG and he's on the btn not CO.

Just had a look Blahs series is aimed at current 100NL, not micros. Wide range as in how wide? Why fold to a lot of 3 bets when he's in position? People call a lot OOP at these stakes let alone IP.

I may try this after a few orbits and villain's ATS is very high and villain still looks like TAG and he's on the btn not CO.

I know people have this thought that there is a huge difference in how small stakes is played compared to the micros. They're wrong.

ragelic: Im not the guy to explain this but you should check out Blah234's Apex predator series, he talks about it there.

Okay I will try this again. When I played this hand I was assuming that villain would open a wide range from the CO, and will fold a lot to 3bets. He can still 4bet me or call me but if he have enough combo's of air, I expect the 3bet to be +ev. It's not like I can't c/f when he calls me. Now, as you pointed out it was quite optimistic of me to assume he have a range that wide as an unknown. Im not hoping that he calls me here nor do I think I can double/triple barrel him alot when he calls me.

Pre is not a mistake. There will be enough boards where we can barrel and win the hand without even hitting something. It's just a preference if you want to 3bet with this hands or A2s. That doesn't really matter as long we don't make mistakes postflop. This is just a bad board to cbet so we should give up and not bet this turn.

I don't know if I'd 3-bet pre. You're essentially turning QTo into a bluff, and there's plenty of hands that QT has value over.

If I'm going to take a bluffing line with QTo, I think I'd rather call and see a flop, followed by a half-pot C-bet on the flop. You win just as much if he's on a steal, but you risk only around $1.20, compared to $2.

Unless I know villain is a fish or plays really bad postflop, I don't like calling QTo from the blinds. If it's one of the best hands we'd fold then why not 3 bet? And find out how he reacts/plays.

I know people have this thought that there is a huge difference in how small stakes is played compared to the micros. They're wrong.

So assume unknowns are the same 20nl to 100nl? doesn't make sense to me. Also a quick skim of some of the slides gave the impression it was playing vs known regs

There are a lot of players at micros who literally almost never fold to 3 bets, thats why I think it's better to get more of an idea of player types before we start 3 betting this, maybe I'm wrong and this is pretty standard, so if we are just doing this as a default then is it for value or as a bluff?

Just had a look Blahs series is aimed at current 100NL, not micros.

He is discussing a concept (theory) in that video so it makes sense across all stakes.

if we are just doing this as a default then is it for value or as a bluff?

3 betting for value/as a bluff doesn't really apply OOP. We just 3 bet because it's higher EV than calling.

I think I would probably fold pre, I think QTo is a little too weak. I'd probably 3bet if our hand was like KQo, QJs as the bottom of my Qx range and KTs and ATo as the bottom of my Tx range.

As played, I'd just cbet the flop and barrel A-T or any heart on the turn.

If I did check, I would probably take your line because I think he's going to have Ax or like broadways a decent amount. I'd bet slightly bigger on the turn because I think he's calling range is inelastic and he's folding river alot (so we gain the max when he calls turn, folds river). Obviously, if the river was an ace I would c/f since we weight his range towards Ax when he calls turn.

Problem with calling is that you don't have any idea about villain's postflop tendencies, and you will miss the flop 2/3 of the time.

True. But think about it. You're bluffing with QTo - an easily dominated hand - by betting $1.90 before the flop in order to win $0.70. If he calls, and you hit with anything other than QTx, QQx, TTx, AKJ, or KJ9 on the flop, you're not going to feel great about that. How often does your bluff have to work to be profitable? About 73% of the time. And if you get called, you are almost certainly behind.

On the other hand, let's say that you flat call, ending action, intending to float-bluff here. Sometimes you may actually hit something, but the point is that the flop's gonna miss -him- 66% of the time. Including the cost of the initial preflop call, you're risking $1.10 to win $0.70, which has to work - drumroll please - about 61% of the time. Plus, you add the equity that occurs when you actually *do* hit the flop and are confident you are ahead.

I'm not saying it's the best move - I'd prefer to fold pre. But to me, float-bluffing here makes more sense to me than re-raising pre.

True. But think about it. You're bluffing with QTo - an easily dominated hand - by betting $1.90 before the flop in order to win $0.70. If he calls, and you hit with anything other than QTx, QQx, TTx, AKJ, or KJ9 on the flop, you're not going to feel great about that. How often does your bluff have to work to be profitable? About 73% of the time. And if you get called, you are almost certainly behind.

On the other hand, let's say that you flat call, ending action, intending to float-bluff here. Sometimes you may actually hit something, but the point is that the flop's gonna miss -him- 66% of the time. Including the cost of the initial preflop call, you're risking $1.10 to win $0.70, which has to work - drumroll please - about 61% of the time. Plus, you add the equity that occurs when you actually *do* hit the flop and are confident you are ahead.

I'm not saying it's the best move - I'd prefer to fold pre. But to me, float-bluffing here makes more sense to me than re-raising pre.

So you want to call pre and then donk any flop?