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## Page 21: what to do when you are card dead?

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#### rocketragz

3368 posts
Joined 11/2008

ok. thanks. basically we can memorize the situation and hope to make the right call (or fold or raise) next time?

The answer to your question is: No, you don't memorize the situation. You understand the concept you are applying to the situation and WHY, so you can correctly think for yourself in every decision.

#### muggles

509 posts
Joined 04/2010

so tell me if this sounds right...

Im trying to work out this EV.

so if I am in position, pot is \$100 and the BB shoves with \$50 on the turn bringing the pot to \$150. I can either call or fold. I have a flush draw, I have about 4:1 probability of hitting (or 20%) and about an 80% chance of not hitting. by my calculations the EV would be -\$10 so I should fold this hand.

same situation, I have a flush draw AND and open ended straight draw. If my math is right this time my ev is +\$11. and I can feel comfortable calling this one.

is that right?

You can certainly call. There are other things than just the current pot odds to consider. If you hit your flush the amount of money you think you will make against that player are called implied odds. So you probably have better odds than you think to call.

But there is also Fold Equity. Fold Equity also increases your pot odds in situations where you raise. A certain percentage of the time that you raise, your opponent will fold. So if you play your draw aggressively you may win without ever hitting your hand. Limit Holdem players often play their draws very aggressively (they'll play them like they've got aces) just for that reason.

In your example remember that you have about a 20% chance of hitting each street. If you hit it on the turn the rest of the hand is pure additional profit. That is the implied odds that I mentioned that you can add to your pot odds. Implied odds are an educated guess. If you are playing a hand and you say to your opponent, "Watch me lose another one", the implied odds just went way up for your opponent because he will estimate that he can win a lot on that hand if he scores.

With a flush draw in NL it isn't a bad play just to go all-in on the flop. It is correct because Pot odds and Fold Equity together make it the right thing to do depending largely on how much money is in the pot and what you think your opponent might have.

#### johnontilt87

153 posts
Joined 03/2012

You can certainly call. There are other things than just the current pot odds to consider. If you hit your flush the amount of money you think you will make against that player are called implied odds. So you probably have better odds than you think to call.

But there is also Fold Equity. Fold Equity also increases your pot odds in situations where you raise. A certain percentage of the time that you raise, your opponent will fold. So if you play your draw aggressively you may win without ever hitting your hand. Limit Holdem players often play their draws very aggressively (they'll play them like they've got aces) just for that reason.

In your example remember that you have about a 20% chance of hitting each street. If you hit it on the turn the rest of the hand is pure additional profit. That is the implied odds that I mentioned that you can add to your pot odds. Implied odds are an educated guess. If you are playing a hand and you say to your opponent, "Watch me lose another one", the implied odds just went way up for your opponent because he will estimate that he can win a lot on that hand if he scores.

With a flush draw in NL it isn't a bad play just to go all-in on the flop. It is correct because Pot odds and Fold Equity together make it the right thing to do depending largely on how much money is in the pot and what you think your opponent might have.

great advice. but the situation I described was after the turn, waiting for the river and my opponent pushes all in. I guess I didn't say that, but that is what i meant to say. In that situation with the two draws and only having to call fifty more chips, i think the best decision is to call his all in, but Im sure that I would be wrong

#### soleztis

DC Dalai Lama
1019 posts
Joined 09/2010

What exactly won't work? Once you copy it to the webpage what happens?

#### johnontilt87

153 posts
Joined 03/2012

ok i think i did this right. bring on the criticizm....could i have played it better? did I play it terribly? whats your opinion? one more hand coming....

Merge Network Fun Step 1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15.00/t30.00 Blinds - 5 players - View hand 1684405
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: t935.00 31.17 BBs
BTN: t925.00 30.83 BBs
SB: t5720.00 190.67 BBs
BB: t1445.00 48.17 BBs
Hero (UTG): t930.00 31 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is UTG with Q Q
Hero raises to t90.00, 2 folds, SB calls t75, BB calls t60

Flop: (t270) 5 8 Q (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets t30.00, Hero raises to t120.00, SB calls t120, BB calls t90

Turn: (t630) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets t30.00, Hero calls t30, SB calls t30

River: (t720) K (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t180.00, SB calls t180, BB folds

Final Pot: t1080
SB mucks 9 8
Hero shows Q Q (Three of a Kind Queens)
Hero wins t1080.00

#### johnontilt87

153 posts
Joined 03/2012

Merge Network Fun Step 1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15.00/t30.00 Blinds - 5 players - View hand 1684408
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: t845.00 28.17 BBs
SB: t835.00 27.83 BBs
BB: t5180.00 172.67 BBs
UTG: t1865.00 62.17 BBs
Hero (CO): t1230.00 41 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is CO with T T
UTG calls t30, Hero raises to t90.00, 3 folds, UTG raises to t150.00, Hero calls t60

Flop: (t345) 7 4 Q (2 players)
UTG bets t30.00, Hero raises to t120.00, UTG calls t90

Turn: (t585) A (2 players)
UTG bets t30.00, Hero calls t30

River: (t645) 7 (2 players)
UTG bets t30.00, Hero calls t30

Final Pot: t705
UTG shows 9 K
Hero shows T T (Two Pair Tens and Sevens)
Hero wins t705.00

#### SCS

6245 posts
Joined 06/2008

Raise larger on the flop - about 220ish, and then shove the turn.

#### johnontilt87

153 posts
Joined 03/2012

why exactly would I bet 220 on the flop? and which hand are you talking about? queens or tens?

#### muggles

509 posts
Joined 04/2010

I think on the Queens one, you should have reraised the turn. I realize you were slow playing to get more money in on the river but because there was a hearts draw on the flop, I think that it would have been best to make any draws pay more to see the river card. That he called the river bet with two overcards on the board was a fishy move on his part. That isn't going to happen at all stakes, so I think that it is better to get into the habit of getting your money in earlier.

I don't think that you played either hand all that bad.

#### johnontilt87

153 posts
Joined 03/2012

I think on the Queens one, you should have reraised the turn. I realize you were slow playing to get more money in on the river but because there was a hearts draw on the flop, I think that it would have been best to make any draws pay more to see the river card. That he called the river bet with two overcards on the board was a fishy move on his part. That isn't going to happen at all stakes, so I think that it is better to get into the habit of getting your money in earlier.

I don't think that you played either hand all that bad.

that makes sense

#### SCS

6245 posts
Joined 06/2008

why exactly would I bet 220 on the flop? and which hand are you talking about? queens or tens?

Value. The queens hand.

Any reads on villain in the tens hand?

#### johnontilt87

153 posts
Joined 03/2012

villian? meaning my opponent?
I was thinking he was drawing because of the small bets, but he ended up having nothing at all

#### matt9041

184 posts
Joined 11/2010

oooo this is exciting! its like were on a poker strategy forum or something!
congrats on trying to get better john!!!

#### johnontilt87

153 posts
Joined 03/2012

should I have not called all his little bets in that hand? I just saw him go all in earlier with 7-2 so I wasn't quick to put him on a great hand

1321 posts
Joined 06/2010

ok i think i did this right. bring on the criticizm....could i have played it better? did I play it terribly? whats your opinion? one more hand coming....

Merge Network Fun Step 1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15.00/t30.00 Blinds - 5 players - View hand 1684405
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: t935.00 31.17 BBs
BTN: t925.00 30.83 BBs
SB: t5720.00 190.67 BBs
BB: t1445.00 48.17 BBs
Hero (UTG): t930.00 31 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is UTG with Q Q
Hero raises to t90.00, 2 folds, SB calls t75, BB calls t60

Flop: (t270) 5 8 Q (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets t30.00, Hero raises to t120.00, SB calls t120, BB calls t90

Turn: (t630) 4 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets t30.00, Hero calls t30, SB calls t30

River: (t720) K (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t180.00, SB calls t180, BB folds

Final Pot: t1080
SB mucks 9 8
Hero shows Q Q (Three of a Kind Queens)
Hero wins t1080.00

Your turnplay look like the reason for you let ppl catch a better hand on the river.
You must charge ppl for their draws. ANd when he minbets the turn, why do you just call?? if he has a FD he is getting insane odds to hit. ANd when you arent able to fold when the flush hits on teh river.
This is a huge issue in your play.

raies bigger on the flop.
shove turn.

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