Small Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

Vilain is a very good player, playing up to NL1000 and tourneys as well. He's running 25/21/3.3, CB 75%.
I have played more than 3K hands with him but incredibly enough I have no notes on him. He's just very solid and very balanced, and must be very good at finding the best bluff spots, as I've never seen him spew off a buy-in for instance.
I know he likes not to bomb the pot with air and low / medium equity holdings, prefers to go to showdown when in position. He surely considers me as an agressive LAG, somewhat crazy and maybe spewy (not against him though, as I feel he's not trying too much to play back => he prefers to fold early and tighten up preflop, only to bluff with the right frequency).

Basically he's very good and I don't really see how to exploit him.

On this hand, I could definitely 3bet 4 value on this spot, but we don't have the dynamic to stack off pre I feel ; also I want to have strong hands like this in my calling range for him to make postflop mistakes ; at last, SB is a fish and BB can squeeze light (and I know his tendancies quite well).
Anyway, I raise on the flop ; I feel it's a good spot as I cannot rep many hands.
On the turn, I'm pretty lost. He's not putting me allin, but it's almost the same as his raises is definitely committing.
As I've said, I don't think he's playing back that much, but I don't rep much, he doesn't too much either, why doesn't he let me barrel, etc.
NB: he always opens 2.5x PF.

Ongame Network $200.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1674952
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $136.75
BB: $370.55
UTG: $200.80
CO: $442.65
Hero (BTN): $201.00

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is BTN with J A
1 fold, CO raises to $5, Hero calls $5, 2 folds

Flop: ($13.00) A 7 K (2 players)
CO bets $10.00, Hero raises to $30, CO calls $20

Turn: ($73.00) 9 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $50.00, CO raises to $137
Hero?

Final Pot: $173.00

Is this hand so standard?

So just because you don't rep anything on the flop, you decided to raise? It sounds like you don't expect him to play back much. If you are not comfortable betting the turn and getting it in, you probably shouldn't raise the flop. On the turn the board got pretty drawy, so he might wanna get it in right there instead of calling. You definitely have to expect to get shoved on when you bet that turn.

I've played this opponent recently, and he's been playing back a fair amount (especially hero calling me).

I think you're right: if I don't know what to do on the turn, then the flop raise is pretty bad.

Do you think he would be more likely to play back on the flop or on the turn? Do you think he would CRAI any Ax turn for protecting his equity against draws?
Looking back at this hand, it seems to me that it's a very good line for him to take with a diamond draw.

could you please explain your rationale behind the flop raise? I don't get why this would be a great spot to raise.

I just expect him to have 2 pr here a lot, maybe K9 of diamonds or aces up.

This hand is so random. Both players line and bet size doesn't make sense. Why did we raise the flop then bet the turn huge but folded? Villain raised to a size that left us like 10% pot on the river? Seems like he's a fish trying to bluff and save himself the extra like 40 dollars but apparently he's very good. I'm pretty sure our range for continuing vs 137 raise or shove would be exactly the same without any leveling factor.

BTW balanced and good in poker usually doesn't go together. Highest EV play in poker usually involves exploiting unbalanced ranges with unbalanced ranges. Being balanced is rarely highest EV, all it does is make you less exploitable.

If he's perfectly balanced then it shouldn't matter what you do here so you can call to see his hand .

I would probably fold though.

I mean, I don't know if he's perfectly balanced. But I believe he is very solid and is able to find good bluff spots (meaning he doesn't get called often in those spots... and therefore seems not to bluff much).

My reasoning for the flop raise is: I just flatted PF with a strong hand, therefore it is somehow disguised, as vilain will expect me to 3bet / jam such hands at least sometimes. Basically I must seem laggy / kinda spewy to vilain, and I'm 3betting more or less 10% of hands (not as much on the button as from the blinds, but still... BTN vs CO, vilain can expect me to 3bet a bunch).

So on this flop, I cannot rep so much except 77 and A7, and maybe some good Ax. I can have some monster draws as well.
For sure he knows I can get out of line quite frequently, so I feel he will not give me much credit when I raise. In other words, I'm raising for thin value capitalizing on my image and the texture of the board.

I thought he would never fold any Ax, and would play back a fair amount (3betting I assume).


The thing is that, on this turn, my perceived range is very polarized, isn't it? I don't feel I have so many draws ; I have some big hands that never fold, and some bluffs. I'm inclined to think that he would have let me barrel with Ax... This said, if for some reason he decides to CR turn with Ax so as to protect his equity or CR with a diamond draw (because it shows a lot of strenght and let me barrel my bluffs turn), folding is desastrous.

I don't know rly :s.

If you think your hand is misguided (seems reasonable, you would be more likely to raise with say pair + FD than TP with a good kicker) then you should keep up the pressure and get it in on the turn.

Otherwise it would just have been better to just call the flop with the intention getting to showdown as cheaply as possible.

The flop raise is fine if you're raising for thin value vs ATo, Axs and XXdd type hands, I'd raise AQ for value here with the K blocking combinations of AK for certain so AJ isn't too far off. The problem tho' is bet sizing, you don't need to bet 50 into 73 dollars to get diamonds to fold and you have position to value bet Ax on the river for the rest of his stack so you've pretty much committed yourself in his eyes with your big bet. I think he'd just fold his XXdd here, so you're either up against sets, 2 pair and maybe a few combinations of combo diamond draws when he does this?

This is actually a really hard hand to judge because it's pretty much revolving around what you think his perception of your value range is on this board texture, and to a really good player it's actually wider than you think it is.

Sorry if that seems a little disjointed, basically I think your flop raise is more of a normal value raise than you think it is and by extension your turn barrel is actually heavier on value as well.

The flop raise is fine if you're raising for thin value vs ATo, Axs and XXdd type hands, I'd raise AQ for value here with the K blocking combinations of AK for certain so AJ isn't too far off. The problem tho' is bet sizing, you don't need to bet 50 into 73 dollars to get diamonds to fold and you have position to value bet Ax on the river for the rest of his stack so you've pretty much committed yourself in his eyes with your big bet. I think he'd just fold his XXdd here, so you're either up against sets, 2 pair and maybe a few combinations of combo diamond draws when he does this?

This is actually a really hard hand to judge because it's pretty much revolving around what you think his perception of your value range is on this board texture, and to a really good player it's actually wider than you think it is.

Sorry if that seems a little disjointed, basically I think your flop raise is more of a normal value raise than you think it is and by extension your turn barrel is actually heavier on value as well.

i think this is spot on, and blah and jjyykk made great points. If our plan is to raise flop and bet pretty big on turn it has to be with the plan of calling a push here, otherwise your sizing is horrible.

I mean, I don't know if he's perfectly balanced. But I believe he is very solid and is able to find good bluff spots (meaning he doesn't get called often in those spots... and therefore seems not to bluff much).

My reasoning for the flop raise is: I just flatted PF with a strong hand, therefore it is somehow disguised, as vilain will expect me to 3bet / jam such hands at least sometimes. Basically I must seem laggy / kinda spewy to vilain, and I'm 3betting more or less 10% of hands (not as much on the button as from the blinds, but still... BTN vs CO, vilain can expect me to 3bet a bunch).

So on this flop, I cannot rep so much except 77 and A7, and maybe some good Ax. I can have some monster draws as well.
For sure he knows I can get out of line quite frequently, so I feel he will not give me much credit when I raise. In other words, I'm raising for thin value capitalizing on my image and the texture of the board.

I thought he would never fold any Ax, and would play back a fair amount (3betting I assume).


The thing is that, on this turn, my perceived range is very polarized, isn't it? I don't feel I have so many draws ; I have some big hands that never fold, and some bluffs. I'm inclined to think that he would have let me barrel with Ax... This said, if for some reason he decides to CR turn with Ax so as to protect his equity or CR with a diamond draw (because it shows a lot of strenght and let me barrel my bluffs turn), folding is desastrous.

I don't know rly :s.

Your thought process is really weird and doesn't seem like you're playing no limit holdem. Seems like a combination of FPS and poor understanding of fundamentals.

1. 3 bet 10% CO vs BU is boarder line nit so why would anyone expect you to jam AJ pre?
2. If you rep a polarized range usually means people should be more likely to rebluff or bluff catch since your range is much weaker combo wise. So why would you fold?
3. Raise for thin value means nothing, so what if villain's calling range has less than 50% equity vs your hand? There's still turn and river left so even if villain has equity disadvantage it's not guaranteed to be +EV. In another words, EV on individual street is pointless and only the EV of your overall line matters.
4. How can you say you're using your image or whatever when you don't even have an idea how villain will react to your line? If you have a bad image villain will be more likely to play back If you have a good image villain will be more likely to fold. So you are using your bad image on the flop to get "thin value" but on the turn your bad image instantly disappears now you got a nitty image so you are folding?
5. if you're going to b/f turn you should of decided on that before you bet. Then your sizing is terrible.

Perhaps good time for you to get a coach and correct your thought process.

Your thought process is really weird and doesn't seem like you're playing no limit holdem. Seems like a combination of FPS and poor understanding of fundamentals.

1. 3 bet 10% CO vs BU is boarder line nit so why would anyone expect you to jam AJ pre?
2. If you rep a polarized range usually means people should be more likely to rebluff or bluff catch since your range is much weaker combo wise. So why would you fold?
3. Raise for thin value means nothing, so what if villain's calling range has less than 50% equity vs your hand? There's still turn and river left so even if villain has equity disadvantage it's not guaranteed to be +EV. In another words, EV on individual street is pointless and only the EV of your overall line matters.
4. How can you say you're using your image or whatever when you don't even have an idea how villain will react to your line? If you have a bad image villain will be more likely to play back If you have a good image villain will be more likely to fold. So you are using your bad image on the flop to get "thin value" but on the turn your bad image instantly disappears now you got a nitty image so you are folding?
5. if you're going to b/f turn you should of decided on that before you bet. Then your sizing is terrible.

Perhaps good time for you to get a coach and correct your thought process.

Amazing post.

Really don't like raising the flop. There are tons of bad cards on the turn which sucks, but since he is good he isn't going to spew on later streets. My plan for this hand would be to try to get two streets of value. He gave you one on the flop, so time to evaluate how the turn changes the texture and subsequently his ranges and act accordingly.