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Thought you guys might like this. Don't think it's been posted ITT.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B-IFjaorFHCTNTNhYTAxYWMtNDU5Mi00M2Y0LTgyZGMtYTEzMDZlYzhkNzA0&hl=en_US&authkey=CJy7_8EN&pli=1

my fat intake is something around 15%, carbs still consists most of my diet.

The most amazing part about all this was when I learned most people undereat and because of that they are fat.

fat people undereat because they don't want to be fat. but it is possible to undereat and still be fat. in fact, it's possible for a fat animal to starve to death (die before using up the fat stores). but undereating is not a cause of fat.

the mechanism of fat storage is separate from nutrition. and people are different. kids' metabolisms work more efficiently than grown-ups' who have been eating carbs all their life. metabolic syndrome doesn't happen overnight.

Taubes talks about this a lot using case studies of poor populations. the kids are malnourished while at the same time many older folks are obese. but the parents aren't stealing food from the kids. metabolic syndrome sets in with age, even when these people have been undereating all their life.

and some people will be more immune than others. it's an interaction between genes and environment (the simple answer to the "asian question"), but the trigger is the carbs. understanding this is key.

as the poster says, "Fat doesn't make us fat. Carbs do."

a balance of a thing that's slowly harming us sounds irrational to me.

you are very much into 'carbs are the devil'. How long have you been doing the low carb diet?

Tbh, I think you should also read some more about why low carb is bad for you, why you shouldnt be doing it. Might make up for a nicer perspective then turning any 'bodyfat problem' into a 'carb problem' "

Most people are fat because they eat to much of bad food. Pasta every day, which is a huge calory bom and then some more for dessert.

Protein, carbs and fats all have its place in nutrition.

If you have been fat or not getting the results you wanted and now you do because of low carb... you might just want to look at your cal intake and how much you are training compared to before the low-carb diet.

How long have you been doing the low carb diet?

1 year now.

i've explained in excruciating detail why carbs are bad for us. 17 pages of it actually.

so now you tell me why you think low carb is bad for me. make me believe.

i'm sorry, my last post came off kind of abrasive i think. really, if you have any good resources that shows harms with low carb eating that i'm overlooking, i'll gladly take a look at it.

my goals are optimal health, not dogma. and you can throw this post back in my face if i prove otherwise.

No harm taken man. I don't think I am in a position to come up with resources, first of all because I think its not a discussion worth having (because i think, if it works for you, it works for you), second of all because I would spend a lot of time trying to 'convince' you of something you are very certain off already. I don't see a good point in trying to convince you.

I just know people that train very hard, and know a lot about nutrition and such that made me realise low carb really isn't needed to feel healthy and have a healthy body (i did a no carb diet for over a year myself, doing muy thai 4 times a week + lifting weights and running).

Moderation is very important. I don't eat pasta's, and tbh, I don't even eat that much carbs myself. I don't see carbs as the biggest enemy though. Carbs has its place.

I see you are very dedicated to help people getting healthy and lean, and I think thats awesome.

it definitely works better for my body. for full disclosure, i might have low-level gluten sensitivity as i've always had outbreaks of acne and gastrointestinal problems if i start eating a lot of bread. but i just kept eating it in small amounts because "bread is the foundation of a healthy diet" and whatnot.

but even despite any gluten sensitivity, i think there's enough science coming out now to show how too much carbs in our diets can be very problematic over time.

but a pizza or junk food day here and there isn't going to take 10 years off our lives or anything like that. it's like [paleo pseudoscience coming up!] being Grok and finding a cache of honey every once in awhile.

I just know people that train very hard, and know a lot about nutrition and such that made me realise low carb really isn't needed to feel healthy and have a healthy body

intense exercise strengthens our metabolisms and keeps blood sugar levels down without insulin. if someone needs that extra energy, higher carbs is fine. but if these people stop exercising, they'd probably be better off going low carb.

I just know people that train very hard, and know a lot about nutrition and such that made me realise low carb really isn't needed to feel healthy and have a healthy body (i did a no carb diet for over a year myself, doing muy thai 4 times a week + lifting weights and running).

The point isn't so much to say "no carbs" as a blanket statement. Even as someone who is training a ton (registered for an Ironman in late June), I still eat this way the vast majority of the time. When I'm on a run, bike ride, etc., I'm still gobbling carbs every 20-30 minutes to keep my blood sugars balanced and keep my energy levels in check - but once I'm done with the workout, I'm back to eating normal, more or less (exceptions for glycogen refueling windows, etc). The combination of the two is, IMHO, significantly better for me (sample size warnings) than simply saying "eat what you want and exercise more" or "never eat carbs."

Rob

I agree. When I read the primal blueprint I first thought it was another 'no carb diet'. But I know it's not.

I don't think you can eat whatever you want, some people can, but they most of the time know that they can. Buddy of mine can eat whatever he likes and has a bodyfat of 13% (something around that). Me, i need to train, eat healthy and stay away from sugars because I get fat in no time if I don't pay attention. Whenever I get injured, I get fat very quickly.

Pizza is great, especially made by yourself

The more I think about this, the more I think wow. The human body has an amazing ability to adapt.

Evolutionarily speaking we perhaps (most likely absolutely) did only eat fats and low carbs in the pre industrial age, and perhaps at the same time post palaeolithic age we've messed up that whole paradigm by eating shit loads of sugar and stuff our bodies weren't used to handling.

At the same time, we are still here. And the fact we are chatting about it from wherever {almost everywhere) on the internet shows we've come a long way. No way would I want to go back to the lifestyle of pre agricultural man, even if we would be "healthier" by doing so.

The human species is still evolving. I'm sure we be able to adapt to a different diet, but perhaps in the long term. (huge sample size obv lol)

When I'm on a run, bike ride, etc., I'm still gobbling carbs every 20-30 minutes to keep my blood sugars balanced and keep my energy levels in check - but once I'm done with the workout, I'm back to eating normal

i like this strategy. i might take up long distance running again.

Thought you guys might like this. Don't think it's been posted ITT.
Low-Carbohydrate Diet Review : Shifting the Paradigm (Hite, Goldstein Berkowitz and Berkowitz, 2011)

nice find! some more scholarly stuff for the collection.

from the conclusion:

Although Americans have changed their eating habits toward the recommended lower fat and higher carbohydrate intake, the current epidemic of obesity and diabetes would suggest that these recommendations have had little impact on improving health. It is time to move beyond outdated notions that persist far beyond any scientific evidence to support them, the clinical versions of “urban myths,” and put the patient first.

it definitely works better for my body. for full disclosure, i might have low-level gluten sensitivity as i've always had outbreaks of acne and gastrointestinal problems if i start eating a lot of bread. but i just kept eating it in small amounts because "bread is the foundation of a healthy diet" and whatnot.

Acne is not a result of poor diet. That is a pure myth.

Nawhead, I agree with a lot you are saying. Out of interest, do you drink a lot of coffee? But for people to go blanked no carbs is not right. Yes they will be lean and skinny, but I would imagine concentration can be difficult at the best of times.

If you ask bodybuilders pre-contest, where they are on a very small amount of carbs or non, they really struggle with life in general and maybe find themselves compensation by using caffeine for example.

My diet. I eat better late at night than I do in the morning. I attempt to have no carbs after 4pm. If I want a treat, I'll have it earlier in the day, so my body has a better chance of burning the energy as opposed to storing it.

A lot of people will recommend cheat days. eg. Pizza on a saturday night and a beer.

My old rugby coach has a simpler philosophy, "if's it got more than 10% fat, put it back".

To summarise. You can tailor your diet to yourself, by weighing yourself at the same time everyday, it is super easy to monitor your weight.

Acne is not a result of poor diet. That is a pure myth.

before we go further, we have to define the ineffective "good diet."

it's a myth because the alternative to a "bad diet" has been to eat low fat because we've also assumed oily foods = oily skin. just like fat foods = fat body.

i'm gonna pull out my anecdotal card since i had severe cystic acne as a kid and adult acne still. and nothing works even close to strict LCHF (no dairy) for acne prevention.