Small Stakes Shorthanded NL Poker Forums

if he calls a lot to 3bet , given the fact you are a little deep and out of position i would 3bet biugger 13-14
since the flop is very drawy i would CB bigger (as a bluff and for value) something like 14-15 (but its a ltlle difference flop),

without history QQ+ is not often in his calling range in nl100, you can add it it you have history / he 's a very good player of the limit, he can have a lot of semi bluff (but not the nut flush draw) since there are straight dfraws too

it's hard if you have no clue of his calling range
maybe we could give him this calling range (discuss)
JJ-66,AQo-AJo,KQo,AQs-ATs,KQs-KTs,QJs-QTs,JTs,T9s,98s

maybe he raises set str8, fluhs draws, that gives us 77-JJ 89s-QKs QTs KTs ATs, we have 46% equity against this raise / shove range,so given the dead money it seems a crying 3bet/call shove (not directly shove to let him continue semi bluff)

what to you thjink?

to answer to your question in game i would fold but given my "study" i should call and it s probably the worse hand i should call :=)

if i were the villain i think mid pairs and big suited broadways wud b in his range, maybe AQo AJo and some slow played over pairs, the hands i imagine a competent player would raise here for value that are in their 3 bet calling range would be JJ 99 88 , is no Ax suited cause hero has ace of spades, KQspades KTspades QTs, J9s, 89s and maybe some pair and straight draws as semi bluffs, putting zero pure bluffs in his range, like JTs or AT, TT, it is possible he bluff raises this flop but i think we shud just say fair play if it works for him this time. id imagine if u run the math on that u wud not b getting 46%, first of all for his calling range is unlikely a reggish player has 66 personally i prob wudnt hav 98s without history altho obv can't b completely discounted and i kno nothing about the villain, am too lazy to run maths but think ud b closer to 20% if it were just for value mix in some semi-bluffs closer to 30% wud hav to b very generous with his ranges and tendencies to justify stacking off here, if it was against my value raising range u wud b crushed, misery put in QQ but think is far less likely than AA KK to flat pre and subsequently raise flop.....misery got 17% equity i got 16% meh

If you don't have the equity to call a raise is check/call better on this flop?

If you don't have the equity to call a raise is check/call better on this flop?

How do you x/call this flop when hero is IP? I can't imagine checking back this flop ever.

How do you x/call this flop when hero is IP? I can't imagine checking back this flop ever.

Hero seems to be in the SB and villain in the CO.

Who's the idiot now....this guy!!

I think is is a spot where we can sometimes be guilty of letting the aggression in today's games get in the way of fundamentals. Getting 100bb in with AJ on J98ss is seldom a good idea, even in a 3-bet pot and even if villain maybe left himself room to fold.

I couldn't agree with this more. While games seem to always be getting more aggressive, that aggressiveness certainly doesn't manifest itself in every possible situation. Unless I had a really strong read to the contrary, I would expect villain to almost always be doing this with a hand he's willing to get it in with on the flop. Unfortunately, here, the range consists of a lot of hands that you are slightly ahead of or essentially flipping with, several hands that have you crushed, and very few, if any, hands that you are highly favored against.

if i were the villain i think mid pairs and big suited broadways wud b in his range, maybe AQo AJo and some slow played over pairs, the hands i imagine a competent player would raise here for value that are in their 3 bet calling range would be JJ 99 88 , is no Ax suited cause hero has ace of spades, KQspades KTspades QTs, J9s, 89s and maybe some pair and straight draws as semi bluffs, putting zero pure bluffs in his range, like JTs or AT, TT, it is possible he bluff raises this flop but i think we shud just say fair play if it works for him this time. id imagine if u run the math on that u wud not b getting 46%, first of all for his calling range is unlikely a reggish player has 66 personally i prob wudnt hav 98s without history altho obv can't b completely discounted and i kno nothing about the villain, am too lazy to run maths but think ud b closer to 20% if it were just for value mix in some semi-bluffs closer to 30% wud hav to b very generous with his ranges and tendencies to justify stacking off here, if it was against my value raising range u wud b crushed, misery put in QQ but think is far less likely than AA KK to flat pre and subsequently raise flop.....misery got 17% equity i got 16% meh

with the range you give we have 40%
Board: Jc 8c 9h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.668% 39.53% 01.14% 9001 259.00 { AcJh }
Hand 1: 59.332% 58.19% 01.14% 13251 259.00 { JJ-88, ATs, KsQs, KsTs, QsTs, JTs, Js9s, 9s8s }

i still dont understand why everyone fold with these numbers given the dead money it's ev+ so
raise in idea to call a shove > fold > call (very difficult to play the had oop)

where i am wrong? (again without my math i would have think like every one that it is a fold

with the range you give we have 40%
Board: Jc 8c 9h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.668% 39.53% 01.14% 9001 259.00 { AcJh }
Hand 1: 59.332% 58.19% 01.14% 13251 259.00 { JJ-88, ATs, KsQs, KsTs, QsTs, JTs, Js9s, 9s8s }

i still dont understand why everyone fold with these numbers given the dead money it's ev+ so
raise in idea to call a shove > fold > call (very difficult to play the had oop)

where i am wrong? (again without my math i would have think like every one that it is a fold

your board says Jc 8c 9h its Js 8s 9h, then ur villain ranges JJ-88 puts in TT, then u put Js9s and 9s8s instead of J9s and 98s, i wud also put in AA & KK, if ur trying to be exact u can say he raises like half the combos of ATs JTs AA and KK, think is more likely just tweaking things like that, your getting 40% cause u have villain shoving his spades on a club board

ok thanks

Why you guys raise JT in this spot if you are Villain ?

where i am wrong?

your board says Jc 8c 9h its Js 8s 9h, then ur villain ranges JJ-88 puts in TT, then u put Js9s and 9s8s instead of J9s and 98s, i wud also put in AA & KK, if ur trying to be exact u can say he raises like half the combos of ATs JTs AA and KK, think is more likely just tweaking things like that, your getting 40% cause u have villain shoving his spades on a club board

This + You if you think he can have QsTs, you have to put all QTs combos, not just QsTs

[quote]Why you guys raise JT in this spot if you are Villain ?

i wouldn't, wud just consider it part of villains semi-bluff raising range

Why you guys raise JT in this spot if you are Villain ?

Yeah, I have been guilty of this mentality as well. We have to remember, only OP knows if the actual villain is capable of raising JT in this position. Most of us at DC wouldn't raise JT, but that doesn't mean that this specific villain isn't capable of it.