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Problem with these health organizations advocating certain food eating tendencies is they could very well be susceptible to bribes from food industries + possible they have some fundamentals backwards and most are too ingrained into their system to see otherwise + influence what the public consumes means control them to an extent, I wouldn't be surprised in my cynical scope if they said alcohol is good to simply sedate the masses so they are happy functional cogs


>The advise doesn't have to improve everybody's health, it just needs to do enough to improve the health of the nation in total.

And another thing. Health recommendations to people that drink tons of alcohol, lots of processed tin foods/packet chips, a slab of meat for every lunch dinner, and white floured bread when they're being "healthy", which is the norm in my slum like area, where stuff like health is ridiculed and labeled uncool, is going to be radically different than recommendations to myself


Seriously I can't trust anything anymore, everything is so full of shit including myself D: Gonna play life like a poker hand, have incomplete information, gotta go with whatever line seems most plausible and what ever is most +ev, with keeping a open mind for new information to radically change my line if need be

Its true they could be influenced by groups. I think this is likely to be at the margins though. The main advice will be based on what they consider to be the best of modern research.

Honestly travel in developing countries has led me to believe that we don't cherish what we have enough. The democracies and institutions in the US, UK and such places are not perfect, but they could be a hell of a lot worse. OK there is the odd thing like the DoJ broadside on online poker, but on the whole these guys are trying to do the right thing. The underhand dealings/corruption etc are nothing compared to what you can find in the rest of the world. IMO better to appreciate what we have, always continuing to put pressure on to make things improve. At least we have the right to assert that pressure.

Striving to do the right thing whilst their heads are bobbling along under the control of puppet strings by a unspoken dictatorship, imho

Whilst those last statements may be true, I don't see how it should mean I should give them a near 100% credibility coefficient in any way

I agree its good to be skeptical, but I would certainly take the recommendations of the health organisations over this guy who claims he can triple your sperm count, boost female orgasm etc etc. He doesn't have an agenda?

Personally I would take the advice of somewhere like the World Health Organisation above anyone who decides to publish on the web. WHO guys are well qualified, and can be held accountable for their advice. A guy on the Internet can just disappear.

yes, they're accountable, and have ZERO reason to admit to one of the biggest public health disasters ever.

and since we're appealing to authority, as i've worked in the government, i can confidently say that admitting fault is not a trait that's highly valued in government jobs.

i think your respect for authority is admirable. but don't mistake accountable for infallible.

we're not saying "believe in Tim Ferris." i prefer Gary Taubes myself. but they're both just one man. we're saying study up on this stuff yourself. don't just take anyone's word for it, governments especially.

I agree and I don't want to sidetrack the conversation.

I know myself simple strategies like eating more fruit and vegetables can help me get basic vitamins/minerals that I need, and they can discourage me from eating rubbish. Believe me, the sugars I might digest from eating an item of fruit pale into insignificance compared to what I might consume in a moment of weakness!

The advise about doing weights a couple of times a week + cardio sessions I am also starting to implement, so I guess I will see if it will do any good. I am one of the masses, slightly healthier I guess as I don't smoke and don't eat that much fast food, but carrying some extra pounds and hardly at peak fitness. I will leave to others their strategies for honing their six packs by shaving off another percent of body fat, and instead stick to the basics!

The main advice will be based on what they consider to be the best of modern research.

I have no intention of bringing up everything I did in that shuffle and flow thread again, but I do want to comment on this point. Despite the fact that me calling myself a legit biomedical scientist (really, I am) means I'm a moron to muggles, I pointed it out only to give myself some semblance of street cred in terms of being able to read (and accessing - a big problem for most people who can only find abstracts unless they're at a university) and understand this modern research you talk about here. Unfortunately, your optimistic view of how our regulations come about is not how many governmental nutritional guidelines, particularly those from the USDA, are brought forth. Most current USDA recs are based on (bad) science from the 60s, much of which has been vastly improved upon in the last 50 years or so.

eta: because I can't help myself, whoever said eating a diet that limited processed foods as much as possible has it perfectly fine as far as the basics are concerned imo.

re: studies

I see people say "oh well studies can say anything... man" all the time. And whilst that's true, it's generally quite easy for you to get a good idea on how legit a study is even if you don't know too much about the subject. Sample size, how well they control, statistical significance, method, results gathering, biases (including your own)... most of this is pretty basic stuff you'll be able to assess from a mile away. Also, obviously people who use just one study completely make their minds up about something are idiots.

If I see a study that suggests something, and it seems to me to be well carried out, that'll tip things a little in it's favour. If I can find 5 or more displaying similar outcomes, I'll start to think there's something to it.

Edit: Oh, also, it's all about experimenting with yourself. For a month try going low carb, or vegetarian, or ice baths for fat loss or whatever else you've looked into, feel you understand pretty well and are interested in. Try to control as well as you can (stick to same workouts, sleep, etc) do your best to track it, then at the end see how it went.

re: Tim Ferriss

Yes he makes some out there claims specifically for marketing purposes. But he presents data, some of it with a sample size of one (himself) some of it analysis and commentary on very well done research. Imo it's a great launching point for someone new or possibly a little intimidated/confused about nutrition, body, etc. Not only will you be introduced to a lot of good info, you'll also be introduced to how you can track and test these things in yourself, which is probably the most important part.

Don't knock it before you try it. Although like nawhead said, there are also many other good sources for this, like Gary Taubes who does an awesome job, although I find his stuff a little more advanced/dry. All of it is just a springboard though to go off and find your own answers, in no way should you treat the stuff as gospel or even agree with most of the stuff presented.

re: studies

I see people say "oh well studies can say anything... man" all the time. And whilst that's true, it's generally quite easy for you to get a good idea on how legit a study is even if you don't know too much about the subject. Sample size, how well they control, statistical significance, method, results gathering, biases (including your own)... most of this is pretty basic stuff you'll be able to assess from a mile away. Also, obviously people who use just one study completely make their minds up about something are idiots.

If I see a study that suggests something, and it seems to me to be well carried out, that'll tip things a little in it's favour. If I can find 5 or more displaying similar outcomes, I'll start to think there's something to it.

Edit: Oh, also, it's all about experimenting with yourself. For a month try going low carb, or vegetarian, or ice baths for fat loss or whatever else you've looked into, feel you understand pretty well and are interested in. Try to control as well as you can (stick to same workouts, sleep, etc) do your best to track it, then at the end see how it went.

agreed

To completely derail the thread:

What are people's opinions on organic food? I can't seem to find much solid research information on it, too much flowery wording for my liking

What about squatting when crapping(yes I'm serious) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting_defecation_posture#Squatting_defecation_posture

To completely derail the thread:

What are people's opinions on organic food? I can't seem to find much solid research information on it, too much flowery wording for my liking

Hundreds of millions of Americans can't be wrong, screw organic!

Edit: Oh, also, it's all about experimenting with yourself. For a month try going low carb, or vegetarian, or ice baths for fat loss or whatever else you've looked into, feel you understand pretty well and are interested in. Try to control as well as you can (stick to same workouts, sleep, etc) do your best to track it, then at the end see how it went.

good advice. i've experimented with eating everything, nothing, vegetarian, vegan, mcdonald's, and now LCHF (low carb high fat). some were for the spirituality/morality, some just for curiosity, some for the science. LCHF agrees with my body like nothing else i've tried. 2nd best diet imo was fasting. but i don't regret trying the other things because i feel it made me understand and care about the world around me as i learned about myself.

To completely derail the thread:

What are people's opinions on organic food? I can't seem to find much solid research information on it, too much flowery wording for my liking

http://whole9life.com/category/conscientious-omnivore/ has some good info, kinda related to organic foods. i don't get into the organic foods tho. but organic milk tastes amazing (if i was into dairy i'd drink that stuff all day).

What about squatting when crapping(yes I'm serious) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting_defecation_posture#Squatting_defecation_posture

i think it looks pretty risky and the danger from slipping and falling would offset some of the supposed benefits. but yeah half the world goes to the bathroom like this, so kind of not a big deal, just a big deal culturally. and everybody squats in the woods.

Hundreds of millions of Americans can't be wrong, screw organic!

hahahahahahha right on

good advice. i've experimented with eating everything, nothing, vegetarian, vegan, mcdonald's, and now LCHF (low carb high fat). some were for the spirituality/morality, some just for curiosity, some for the science. LCHF agrees with my body like nothing else i've tried. 2nd best diet imo was fasting. but i don't regret trying the other things because i feel it made me understand and care about the world around me as i learned about myself.


http://whole9life.com/category/conscientious-omnivore/ has some good info, kinda related to organic foods. i don't get into the organic foods tho. but organic milk tastes amazing (if i was into dairy i'd drink that stuff all day).

.

How does one conduct these experiments with ruling out the placebo effect and other extraneous variables?


Read the article, pretty basic really and didn't say much, but I guess it's a introduction to a concept. Anyway, is there actually any evidence to this?

> The kicker, however, is that we know animal protein sources in my diet make me healthier. We know we can’t thrive in the absence of meat on my plate. We know (heck, we preach) all of the down sides associated with conventional vegetarian protein sources, and we simply cannot justify including those in our diets in place of meat, because they will compromise our health.

oh, i don't really agree with some of the statements made by the Whole9 site. i only gave the link because they delve into organic, free-range type stuff related to organic foods which was what you were asking about.

extraordinary claims (not extraordinary for the vast majority of human existence, but anyway) require extraordinay evidence:
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/297/9/969.abstract?sid=fe77e359-32c0-4257-8665-a94830054747
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eREuZEdMAVo
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19209185?dopt=Abstract
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIGV9VOOtew&playnext=1&list=PL7D64949399B50EBA#t=00m45s
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/metabolism-and-ketosis/
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2010/10/28/video-of-the-big-fat-fiasco-speech/

primer on clinical trials:
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statistics/observational-studies-2/
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/16/magazine/16epidemiology-t.html?pagewanted=1

but i'm not a scientist, and i think there's some harder stuff in the thread where n0whereman had that discussion with Travis Steffen.