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I'm still waiting for the big admittance that this was all a giant level by bored HSNL guys who can't get action.

It's interesting that Haseeb seems to be intent on not being singled out in the whole matter. All his posts are about himself and Jungleman, as opposed to just his own involvement, and he insisted in the skype conversations that they be referred to as DiH, Jungleman, Sauce and others, when it's pretty clear that DiH had much, much more to do with Jose than anyone else.

Coupled with the fact that DiH did his best to try and cover the whole thing up, was still intending to move in with Jose until the event actually became public and felt compelled to pay people back out of his own pocket...there seems to be a lot more to this than meets the eye.

The "good pawn gone bad" theory appears to have the most validity at the moment.

Personally I hope Jungleman is innocent in all this and is at most guilty of using the accounts to play online when he couldn't in the US.

Well the video was read from a script... Look at his video and at Giggy's videos for example.
I thought he was very well prepared and liked it, but there could be more behind it...

He also copy pasted a lot and had always the same answers in various wells and videos about him (taken from his first story post...that DogIshhead helped him to write), I watched/read them all. He also got numerous vouches from many people who just helped him to sweat others and scam more people. I would be not at all surprised if someone was collaborating with him.

The apology written in that thread is a complete joke if you follow up on other info in the thread, he's just sorry he got caught not that he was doing it. I can't believe I actually took this guy as a role model.

There are a few people on 2p2 that said they will do everything they can to get this in front of court and I hope they will. Really the confidence in online poker is so low, and now I found out I was being naive when I was openly letting anyone sweat live, ousting my sn and believing that when I deposit money it won't get locked (atm I can't pay for groceries because of a bug in WH depositing system) and that you can have a story as he had. Add all the data mining and people teaming up and online poker doesn't seem like the nice place it did a while ago

This is really off topic now but its bugging the **** out of me. What does WH stand for?

William Hill?

I suspect DIH will turn out to be the biggest victim in the situation.

Girah looks like a compulsive liar. Almost certainly, he's lied repeatedly to DIH. Why would a dishonest guy be honest with one person? It's like a maniac who plays passive v one (unexceptional) player, or a calling station who folds to one (unexceptional) player.

I would not be surprised if he lied about the whole big winner thing. He was asking to play the Durrrr Challenge while being staked at 5-10 ffs. I suspect initially he dumped off chips on the stake to his "friend", and only stopped when Jungleman and DIH explained the concept of makeup.

It's still strange to me that people idolize various players in the HS community to the point of feeling betrayed. I mean, I get that we all wish we were baller to a point like them, but unless I've met you and we've become friends, I don't feel offended when someone cheats. I think it reflects poorly on the community and doesn't help things obv, but I get the sense that many who have never even talked with this dude are feeling shunned like a band geek on prom night. Am I just cynical in that I expect people to cheat when $ amounts get large? Or that it wouldn't shock me at all to see FTP never pay US players back? There's a reason I never kept more than I could afford to lose on any poker site. It seems I'm a minority when it comes to not trusting large companies and people I don't know with large sums of money.

Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of good people in the poker community and as a whole I think it is great. But for some reason stuff like this doesn't seem to faze me in the slightest.

An immature kid with a ton of money did something dumb and wrong. Story checks out.

It's still strange to me that people idolize various players in the HS community to the point of feeling betrayed. I mean, I get that we all wish we were baller to a point like them, but unless I've met you and we've become friends, I don't feel offended when someone cheats. I think it reflects poorly on the community and doesn't help things obv, but I get the sense that many who have never even talked with this dude are feeling shunned like a band geek on prom night. Am I just cynical in that I expect people to cheat when $ amounts get large? Or that it wouldn't shock me at all to see FTP never pay US players back? There's a reason I never kept more than I could afford to lose on any poker site. It seems I'm a minority when it comes to not trusting large companies and people I don't know with large sums of money.

Don't get me wrong. There are a lot of good people in the poker community and as a whole I think it is great. But for some reason stuff like this doesn't seem to faze me in the slightest.

An immature kid with a ton of money did something dumb and wrong. Story checks out.

Anyone who tried to coach, tried to do videos, or accepted sponsorship is no longer a private figure. That means anyone in NVG can claim to have a relationship with these guys.

And there is an immune system thing going on. The poker community relies on trust (perhaps more than is sensible). That means that dishonesty is a big threat, and the immune reaction to a "pathogen" is pretty violent.

I agree with what you say Tecmo but there's a difference between being shocked and being disappointed.

While it's true a lot of players place far to much trust in other for large amounts of money, poker to me is not any worse than business or other "real life" transactions. Obviously hard data on that is impossible to come by but don't think that poker players are any more likely to scam than non-poker players.

I suspect DIH will turn out to be the biggest victim in the situation.

i kinda hope so, 'cos i think the alternative is not good.

i was a fan of the DogIsHeadsUp series way back when, but the general demeanour of his blogposts/posts in thread really makes me wince, to say nothing of the claim that yeah he multiaccounted, but it's just one of those things you do. I think he has a lot of work to do wrt his role in the whole thing, and his attitude seems to be the opposite of what i would expect/think is optimal.

Like i say, i hope he turns out to be a victim.

Poker scandals are a hell of a drug.

An immature kid with a ton of money did something dumb and wrong. Story checks out.

To my mind this understates what he did. A young adult did something criminal, and stole from both strangers and people he was, or pretended to be, friends with. Do we know for sure he has a ton of money, for that matter?


WH = WIlliam Hill, yeah. Thanks!

Incidentally, this is the best post I've read on 2+2 in quite some time:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=28038507&postcount=316

and not just in the context of this "scandal".

Anyone who tried to coach, tried to do videos, or accepted sponsorship is no longer a private figure. That means anyone in NVG can claim to have a relationship with these guys.

Agree, and maybe it's because I don't know the details very well, but it seems like X is far greater than Y, where X is total people outraged and Y is people with any personal contact w/ him. Just seems like standard 2p2/internet mob reaction to me.

And there is an immune system thing going on. The poker community relies on trust (perhaps more than is sensible). That means that dishonesty is a big threat, and the immune reaction to a "pathogen" is pretty violent.

That's the thing. I think we all need to look at this inherent trust and examine whether or not we are making a wise decision. I just feel that too many people diminish the risk involved and make too many assumptions about character.

I agree with what you say Tecmo but there's a difference between being shocked and being disappointed.

While it's true a lot of players place far to much trust in other for large amounts of money, poker to me is not any worse than business or other "real life" transactions. Obviously hard data on that is impossible to come by but don't think that poker players are any more likely to scam than non-poker players.

100% agree. I only point it out in the poker community because that is where I exist in this context. I don't have much trust for people in OR out of the poker community. In addition, I actually think the poker community as a whole is probably MORE trustworthy than the average group in society, but not to the point where I blindly expect honesty and moral decisions.

Disappointment is a fair reaction, but for whatever reason when I saw the news I just chalked it up to yet another case where someone saw a morally reprehensible opportunity and took it. There have been so many at this point that it barely registers on my emotional radar. I mean, Black Friday kinda takes the cake and has exhausted my mana pool for disappointment

To my mind this understates what he did.

Didn't mean to understate it. For me, doing something wrong/dumb doesn't mean it has to be trivial. I can see how it came off that way though. His actions are definitely worse than various other scandals.

Anyone who tried to coach, tried to do videos, or accepted sponsorship is no longer a private figure. That means anyone in NVG can claim to have a relationship with these guys.

And there is an immune system thing going on. The poker community relies on trust (perhaps more than is sensible). That means that dishonesty is a big threat, and the immune reaction to a "pathogen" is pretty violent.

That's kind of extreme, as far as he admitted wrong doing, a lot of people in NVG are going to blow it all out of proportion by speculating and making bogus accusations just for shits and giggles like NVGtards do. The train of "I knew he was bogus all along, but I never said anything about it until now" always arrives conveniently on time. I'm certainly not justifying this kid's actions, but 2p2's reactions to "scandals" are anything but sensible.

I kind of agree with Tecmo, personally the majority of people I've met playing poker are not the kind of people I'd want to socialize with, for every stand up guy in the poker community there are countless, unproductive shit bags lurking behind their monitors.

Distrust of other poker players should be the norm.