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man standing on earth alone with the moon.
very very hard to swallow this truth. Not many can.

True - I was a little out of line. But I was just trying to get one of you to write: Poker is not gambling. Because that is the key argument as far as I know.

...

I have this idea that some people look for certainty while others prefer uncertainty. Is that maybe the main difference?

I thought both these points were interesting - on the first, how do you respond to the idea that what you're doing, and what I'm aspiring to do , isn't gambling, but that what the average rec player is doing does constitute gambling?

On the second point, I have a similar view to yours, except that rather than "prefer uncertainty" I ended up at "am comfortable with uncertainty". A book by John Dewey called "The Quest for Certainty" influenced my thinking quite a bit (it's not about religious experience per se, more about human experience generally).

I thought both these points were interesting - on the first, how do you respond to the idea that what you're doing, and what I'm aspiring to do , isn't gambling, but that what the average rec player is doing does?

I think it has to be proved in the nature of the game not the players. Like imagine if I was rich and I decided to play Kobe Bryant for 1000$ a point. Just cause I suck and am gonna lose a million doesn't make basketball a game of luck, it just makes me an idiot(fish)

Love the analogy

Something to consider: it is much easier to measure the amount of bad caused by religion than the amount of good.

Something to consider: it is much easier to measure the amount of bad caused by religion than the amount of good.

I disagree.

Cons (not exclusive to any one or all religious beliefs): Development of possible anxiety and depression disorders, perpetuation of irrational thinking, living in fear, living your life credulously, believing as truth an arbitrary belief system that has no direct or logical evidence of being true, loss of money due to donations forced or otherwise, loss of time due to practices, loss of self-respect, repression of independent thought, repression of natural human response, repression of emotion, loss of the need or desire for real truth, inflation of personal bias, non-acceptance of inevitable death/non-existence/loss of consciousness, minimization of pleasure, minimization of experience, repression of moral decision-making ability, forced myopia, correlation with psychotic delusion, possible future involvement in dangerous cult-like activities or fundamentalist violence to oneself or others, and false hope.

Pros:

You are describing evangelicals, not all religious people.

I am a devout atheist FWIW.

And do not mistake me, I am not trying to say whether the good outweighs the evil or vice versa. I just think that when religion hasn't been perverted by morons, its not so bad. A lot of religious people donate time and money to charity and helping others.

You are describing evangelicals, not all religious people.

I am a devout atheist FWIW.

No, I'm describing the possible pros and cons of having beliefs that aren't based in reality. Any belief with a reasonable doubt: fundamentalist, evangelical, catholic, buddhistic, muslim, taoist lite or even atheistic will do.

If you are a monk in Buddhism, you wake up early to do chants

I've started doing this... throw in some yoga + walking = totally badass way to start the day.

I used to think Religion, Spirtuality, belief in things greater than the observable universe, etc was one group and logical thinking, science and true reality was another. And they didn't really play well together. But idk, I think spirituality is really cool and has definitely improved my life and I think all the different religions are just different applications of the same base spiritual idea.

I see it kind of like poker. There's lag and tags and nits and they all argue about who has the better strategy, who is right. And the tags hate the lags for certain reasons and the lags hate the tags back, and it's mostly just because they're different. Then there's the guys that study the underlying reasons why each group does what they do and applies whatever they need to help them in each situation, they're both all styles and no styles at the same time. And those guys win all the money.

Some people don't play poker though, which is fine, there's nothing to lose that way.

Boymustdie I'd think that the only belief we could base in reality is "I am concious". Anything above that is up for debate.

Cons (not exclusive to any one or all religious beliefs): Development of possible anxiety and depression disorders, perpetuation of irrational thinking, living in fear, living your life credulously, believing as truth an arbitrary belief system that has no direct or logical evidence of being true, loss of money due to donations forced or otherwise, loss of time due to practices, loss of self-respect, repression of independent thought, repression of natural human response, repression of emotion, loss of the need or desire for real truth, inflation of personal bias, non-acceptance of inevitable death/non-existence/loss of consciousness, minimization of pleasure, minimization of experience, repression of moral decision-making ability, forced myopia, correlation with psychotic delusion, possible future involvement in dangerous cult-like activities or fundamentalist violence to oneself or others, and false hope.

Pros: Widespread and prolific work with the poor in areas such as food banks, housing shelters, public works programs, free medical care abroad and creation/funding of hospitals, stimulation of thought and creativity, creation and running of schools, orphanages, strong sense of morality, civil rights (slaves, women, etc.), disaster relief, self improvement, crisis counseling, artwork, literature, libraries, self-respect via a strong support network, works in philosophy, works in genetics, youth ministries, scholarships, nursing homes, music (This could also go in the con section though, if I'm honest lol.):

FYP, and that's just in a few minutes off the top of my head.
I'm personally on the fence FWIW.

Pros: Widespread and prolific work with the poor in areas such as food banks, housing shelters, public works programs, free medical care abroad and creation/funding of hospitals, stimulation of thought and creativity, creation and running of schools, orphanages, strong sense of morality, civil rights (slaves, women, etc.), disaster relief, self improvement, crisis counseling, artwork, literature, libraries, self-respect via a strong support network, works in philosophy, works in genetics, youth ministries, scholarships, nursing homes, music (This could also go in the con section though, if I'm honest lol.):

You need religious belief to have these? Hogwash.

You need religious belief to have these? Hogwash.

No, you don't need it, just like you don't need religion to become an irrational psychopath. I was just stating things that have been done by/have stemmed from the work of religious organizations, which is what I thought you were doing too.