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http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/sean_carroll_distant_time_and_the_hint_of_a_multiverse.html

this a great talk for those invoking the laws of thermodynamics to try and prove the existence of god. (i.e. that the apparent contradiction of the 2nd law and the observable complexity of the universe are due to god)

NOTE: I'm not joking about this "philosophy". Seems to me it was within the last 100 years.
I am not even sure how to search for it. Keywords anyone?

In addition to tHeBoYmUsTdIe's comment, this is also a belief of The Course of Miracles; that the physical reality is a reflection of a piece of God's mind; and that we are fragments of thought, or manifestations of an idea

@smershbloke I actually find this area of inquiry pretty interesting, but from the opposite side... inducing some sort of experience chemically that a person would refer to as a religious experience really pulls the carpet out from under non-chemically-induced religious experiences by pointing out that they're much much much much more likely to be the simple result of brain chemistry.

St Paul, for example, was almost certainly a serious but obviously undiagnosed schizophrenic.

No - i'm with you.. There is a book/novel about a nun who has a brain tumour which causes her to have these type of experiences. Shes is offered the chance of an operation to remove the tumour - and hence stop the very powerful religious experiences. This in itself becomes a personal dilemna (the subject of the novel) as she finds these insights very moving in a spiritual sense. Anyone know what the novel is called?

If you guys want something incredibly deep, try this. The 'world's smartest man' attempts to prove that the reality we inhabit is the 'mind of god.' He calls it the cognitive theoretical model of the universe.

http://www.megafoundation.org/CTMU/Articles/Langan_CTMU_092902.pdf

From what I can tell it's a combination of an ontological argument guised in a lot of intentionally convoluted language, and it hasn't been received very well. Not much math, which would be necessary in a 'theory of everything', though he claims it's logically consistent. I haven't read through it all, but there are some really cool ideas for sure.

I really really really dislike the pseudo science typically presented in motivational speaking, and I have to be skeptic to if motivational speakers actually help anyone who wouldn't have helped themselves just as well on their own.

I also have to wonder if motivational speakers actually hurt a lot of people. The simple one sided arguments(?) they present could be really hurtful to someone who might need professional help, like medicine or other forms of treatment.

This +100000000000000000 ...

I don't know that I'd classify myself as an atheist, but I do doubt that there's a god in any anthropomorphic sense. I've also done psilocybin/psylocin in college, and while it was a lot of fun and definitely made a lot of things feel profoundly significant, I don't think I'd classify it as a religious experience. Recalling my thoughts on the days after, it would always turn out that the drug had simply rendered me easily amazed. But hey, it was enjoyable anyway, and I got a lot of exercise when tripping, since I felt compelled to see everything.

In a vacuum (!!) - would you clasify it as one? When i say "religious experience" you have to realise this is something the scientists had to quantify it in some way. A line was drawn to "define" what is a very personal and subjective experience. The participant where asked to rate the experience on a scale similar to "Was this a religious experience? = Most likely, Maybe, Not Sure, Not at all etc
Sounds like a sociology experiment! (Apologies to sociology majors!)

I was no way inferring that these type of experiences are somehow objectively defined, because they cant be. I think the scientist(s) where probably stretching the results too far (again, probably Sociologists - again, massive apologies all round)

I also have to wonder if motivational speakers actually hurt a lot of people. The simple one sided arguments(?) they present could be really hurtful to someone who might need professional help, like medicine or other forms of treatment.
.

sounds like poker coaches to low stakes grinders! lol

Regarding brain chemistry, "tripping" and having "religious experiences"... I thought research had shown a correlation between a person's predilection towards religious experience, and their previous religious indoctrination, however passive.

It would take more advanced neuroscience to show causality... but it makes reasonable sense to theorise that someone raised in a christian household, for example, might take a hallucinogen or other psychoactive substance, and be prone to having certain types of experience unaware that the brain is constructing these experiences from material already at hand. Such things can obviously also occur when brain chemistry is affected by things like hunger strikes or long fasting, or sensory deprivation such as sitting in caves or wandering in featureless deserts.

With something as haphazard as chemical reactions affecting our experiences of the world... which is a DAILY occurrence for ALL people... this is going to have to be something that is MUCH better understood before debates like this can ever cease.

What's peoples thoughts on Robert Anton Wilson and his various works on belief systems?

*Semi-Grunch*

Re: religion and neuroscience, Dr. V.S. Ramachandrin, M.D., PhD makes some reference to religion and brain physiology in Phantoms in the Brain. I can't find the text right this second, but he also elaborated in a talk that I saw (sorry, this was pre-You Tube, no link). There have been several cases of people with seizure disorders that affect an area of the frontal lobe that makes them fervently religions pre-ictally and during the actual seizure. They have increased autonomic responses when viewing religious items that they are familiar with (for example, Westerns may not respond to yin yangs). This possibly indicates an underlying biological substrate for why some people gravitate towards religion while others eschew it.

I feel that this does not necessarily argue for the validation or invalidation of religion because having this brain activity can be taken either as a burden or a blessing, depending on the perspective. I just wanted to bring it up as fodder and to maybe add to the TED video (which I didn't watch, so it might be redundant).

You either grunch or you don't grunch. You're as bad as the agnostics.

What's peoples thoughts on Robert Anton Wilson and his various works on belief systems?

Never heard of him, but from a quick google search I want to punch him in the face.

Something interesting happened this morning.

Trying to finish the renewal of my immigration status in Mexico (resident)
..... I go online checking the status of paperwork after the two week Easter Vacation. The country pretty much went to the beaches during this time -- and government slows almost to a halt.
..... My Spanish is pretty good, but not perfect, so I am trying to figure out if I really need to do anything (more information needed?).....or do I just wait the "10 days" (plus the vacation time).

I click on the button to update my personal information online.
......and one of the questions is about my "Religion". Immediately, I thought about this DC thread.

Because, I now have to decide. To be honest, normally I probably would have put "Protestant", because that is what my family has always been.
So I think I am going to put "other religion", because I am not willing to put "atheist" yet.

The Options Given :
Catholic, Roman
Orthodox
Protestant
other Christian religion
Jewish
Buddhist
Hindu
Islamic
Other religion
Without religion (atheist)
=======================

EDIT: the Mexican population that identifies itself as Roman Catholic
......is roughly about 84% (2010).....down from 88% (2000)........and 98% (1950).

Enjoy being on a watch list with the Scientologists.

Enjoy being on a watch list with the Scientologists.

Meh. If this was China/Tibet, I would be concerned (seriously).
In Mexico, no one cares. Nothing to watch here. Boring.

EDIT: my devout Catholic wife makes up for it. Trust me.
BTW, according the Census, the State of Jalisco (capital Guadalajara) is supposedly 95% Roman Catholic.