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but the religious believe (because they've been told) that evolution means living beings become more complex over time. Example is moderns replacing homo erectus. Then, as the logic they espouse goes, the universe cannot make itself MORE complex than it already is, and therefore either evolution is flawed, or there is a God making it happen.

FYI, I do not believe what I wrote, I'm just stating some beliefs in different terms

Epictetus assumes the fact it is even possible for the illiterate man to understand or that he desires the truth in the first place. I discount that. The people in this thread either can't understand or don't want to understand so it becomes pointless to argue with them. The conversation is over before it even begins.

@tHeBoYmUsTdIe

well this is the point at which i'll have to get religion and say i have more faith in people than you. i never said i was completely logical!

i'm sure we could have some interesting talk about psychological and behavioral economics experiments to change my opinions on people, however.

Radiolab - The Good Episode

Radiolab is fantastic. Did you listen to the one on stochasticity?

When you do acid and talk to Donald Duck, you were involved with that particular experience as well, except that Donald Duck wasn't in reality there to talk to. It was completely in your head.

Know what I mean?.

Whats with the Disney monopoly on psychedilc experiences? Was i on holiday during the board meeting?
I have never talked to a cartoon character in my entire life! High or sober.
Maybe it was about not being freaked about the distance of stars, the impossiblity of gravity, the life-cycle of the star. Maybe i just felt really close to it all - dare i say it - comforted and warmed by my surroundings/ the universe, trees, the stars - yes - the stars - distant lights mocking us daily - yet i felt no fear but connected and PART OF the whole. (Yes, but in the morning went to work and did my job)

THAT to me is spiritual - not talking to invisble cartoons or "seeing shit".
How far off the mark are you sir? Folk who have smoked, toked and swallowed - they aint talking 'bout no cartoon Duck. How dare you assume my experiences are based on your readings of the accounts of some wretched herion/codeine addict in a hick town in the middle of nowhere. Every person on this earth is caught up in the mystery - and no f*cker, and there has been countless genius, has worked it out. How dare you say that i spend my time getting off talking to cartoon Ducks.
How fricking narrow-minded is that?

Whats with the Disney monopoly on psychedilc experiences? Was i on holiday during the board meeting?
I have never talked to a cartoon character in my entire life! High or sober.
Maybe it was about not being freaked about the distance of stars, the impossiblity of gravity, the life-cycle of the star. Maybe i just felt really close to it all - dare i say it - comforted and warmed by my surroundings/ the universe, trees, the stars - yes - the stars - distant lights mocking us daily - yet i felt no fear but connected and PART OF the whole. (Yes, but in the morning went to work and did my job)

THAT to me is spiritual - not talking to invisble cartoons or "seeing shit".
How far off the mark are you sir? Folk who have smoked, toked and swallowed - they aint talking 'bout no cartoon Duck. How dare you assume my experiences are based on your readings of the accounts of some wretched herion/codeine addict in a hick town in the middle of nowhere. Every person on this earth is caught up in the mystery - and no f*cker, and there has been countless genius, has worked it out. How dare you say that i spend my time getting off talking to cartoon Ducks.
How fricking narrow-minded is that?

Lol.

Lol.

Quack Quack

anyone here tried psilocybin?
Scientific experiments in america showed that a significant number of participants had a religious experience.

maybe if you really wanna know what this means (a spiritual experience blah blah blah) you should try this?

I'm not some hippy promoting drugs, far from it, but so far this is the only scientifically acknowledged observation of a religious experience.

How do the atheists feel about this?

Francis Crick, the man who won a Nobel Prize for discovering the structure of DNA, did so while high on LSD.

You can't really debate belief. As I said in the thread earlier it's my opinion that, "You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into", so I generally don't try.

Again the above statement isn't exclusive to religious beliefs, but beliefs in general.

@bjordan

well that's just like, your opinion, man.

and it's odd that you say that on a training forum. are beliefs about poker exempt in some way?

re-reading my posts i think i might have come across as pro-God.
Not at all - quite the opposite.
Juss sayin' we all need to try and see where the other folk are coming from.
IF you want to see/feel what people who have close, personal experiences of God then this can be induced artificially.

Francis Crick, the man who won a Nobel Prize for discovering the structure of DNA, did so while high on LSD.

UTTER BOLLOCKS
see snopes.com

its an urban myth.

@bjordan

well that's just like, your opinion, man.

and it's odd that you say that on a training forum. are beliefs about poker exempt in some way?

I realize it's just my opinion. I don't mean to come off as if I was scolding everyone for trying to debate it. I was mostly posting in regards to the few post complaining about this thread going in circles. Feel free to debate it though.

Perhaps, "beliefs in general", wasn't the best way to say it. I shouldn't have implied most beliefs.

Poker "beliefs" don't really fall in the same category. I see them as different because they're tangible things that can be tested. It may take a very long period to find out if X is correct, etc. Even the most hypothetical concept in poker is within an confined environment we all understand and can manipulate and test. E.g. The cards and rules.

Beliefs related to spirituality, etc, don't exist within an environment where they can be tested and evaluated.

I'm sure we could debate what constitutes a belief that can be debated and one that can't all day. So It's probably not the best example but hopefully it clears up what I meant.

Radiolab is fantastic. Did you listen to the one on stochasticity?

of course! that is probably my favorite of them all. and the choice and deception episodes are classics as well.

This should be required viewing for every debate:

http://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong.html

"If you really want to rediscover wonder, you need to step outside of that tiny, terrified space of rightness and look around at each other and look out at the vastness and complexity and mystery of the universe and be able to say, 'Wow, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong.'"

Ugh. This video is so bad.

Ugh. This video is so bad.

This comment is so bad.

This comment is so bad.

The video is bad because there's no science, no testable theory.... it's just someone drawing lines between the dots at their leisure, with nothing to back it up, holding an extremely arrogant position (where does she consider that she might be wrong about how to approach being wrong?). It's like a motivational speech or something.