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I just said that if there is a God he could hide. If he couldn't he wouldn't be very God-like

But if he did hide, that wouldn't be very godlike either, would it?

And aliens seem rather likely. Hopefully they don't find us.

Hopefully when they hop off the saucer and say "We come in peace" we'll skip straight to the bit where we start shooting. Unless they've taken the "Something Wicked" strategy, in which case they're already here and we're one two-hour metal opera away from annihilation.

I can't imagine a scenario where meeting intelligent alien species turns out good for us.

But if he did hide, that wouldn't be very godlike either, would it?

Maybe God has a different favorite universe, and just really doesn't want to deal with those pesky humans in our universe?

I can't imagine a scenario where meeting intelligent alien species turns out good for us.

They could deem us too insignificant to be worth bothering. Bad for self-esteem, but otherwise harmless.

Maybe God has a different favorite universe, and just really doesn't want to deal with those pesky humans in our universe?

So god has the ability to go zipping through the multiverse but it's too big a pain to pop in now and then?

not sure if serious...

http://i.imgur.com/ytH4n.jpg

I can't imagine a scenario where meeting intelligent alien species turns out good for us.

I just typed out a sweet response and then my dog closed the browser. I basically said that aliens smart enough to reach us might be peaceful for 2 reasons:

1. If they were like us in nature, yet smarter or more evolved, they would kill themselves by the time they reached the necessary point in technological evolution.

2. They likely realize peaceful approaches > "I DON'T LIKE YER KIND, LET'S GET 'EM FELLERS."

Then I said that all of this was obv based on nothing at all.

I just typed out a sweet response and then my dog closed the browser.

Obviously he doesn't want you to get the word out about something...

http://i.imgur.com/ytH4n.jpg

Perfect.

I disagree. Both evolution and social Darwinism would still apply. Whatever group of aliens find us will most likely be self preserving, and if you look at why they would be traveling through space, the most likely reason is the inherit scarcity of the universe. They are likely looking for resources, and we would be in their way (unless we are a potential source of food or something).

If we happened to stumble upon some less intelligent species than ourselves, that would obviously be really boring. If we stumble upon a species that is as advanced as we are at that point, and that also faces the same challenge of scarcity that we do, and also is serf preserving... Well we might win the war but it would probably not be a net gain for our species.

Anyone have any good book suggestions (theist, atheist, or otherwise) for someone who's not sure about the existence of God? Basically I'm on the fence and I'm looking to hop into one side or the other.

I read this book during college, along with parts of The Bible, in an effort to quell my skepticism and help me understand those who believe. It didn't help.

In the interest of full disclosure, my girlfriend at the time was big into religion so that was part of my motivation behind it. We ultimately broke up because we were so diametrically opposed on a topic that was a great importance to her, which I just couldn't grasp.

There might be better books out there (I've perused some of Dawkins' work), but you likely aren't on the fence for real. Play the "flip a coin" game where you pick between 2 options. Whichever one you feel yourself yearning toward when the coin is in the air is the one you really favor. Whatever books you find will likely help you cement your belief on either side, but who knows

Anything Dawkins is probably worthwhile. I would specifically recommend The God Delusion, as it's aimed at people who are on the fence.

And God Is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens is a great read, but it's about how evil religion is, not why it isn't true.

The question is so broad that it's hard to even comprehend. Like, how they would physically look. Considering how small we are in relation to so many things, another species could easily be the size of Texas or as small as an electron. They could reflect light differently or somehow be in a different dimension. I think chances are good that there is SOME form of alternate life out there, but I doubt it looks like anything we can conceive.

I bet they have big boobs though. Darwinism at its best.

Anything Dawkins is probably worthwhile. I would specifically recommend The God Delusion, as it's aimed at people who are on the fence.

I enjoyed The God Delusion, but bear in mind that Dawkins is NOT on the fence himself and it shows. Definitely worth checking out though.

I read this book during college, along with parts of The Bible, in an effort to quell my skepticism and help me understand those who believe. It didn't help.

In the interest of full disclosure, my girlfriend at the time was big into religion so that was part of my motivation behind it. We ultimately broke up because we were so diametrically opposed on a topic that was a great importance to her, which I just couldn't grasp.

There might be better books out there (I've perused some of Dawkins' work), but you likely aren't on the fence for real. Play the "flip a coin" game where you pick between 2 options. Whichever one you feel yourself yearning toward when the coin is in the air is the one you really favor. Whatever books you find will likely help you cement your belief on either side, but who knows

Ninja-edited b/c I didn't really think this thread was the correct place for reading recommendations, but it seems worth checking out.
I'm actually what I'm calling 'on the fence' because this thread has got me thinking about if I'm just a theist because my parents are and that's what I was brought up in. I think someone posted a Dawkins (?) quote to that effect earlier. My aim is to remove influences that compel me to practice religion, learn arguments both for and against God and determine for myself if it's still meaningful and worthwhile. You're right, I probably don't fit the definition of agnostic, I'm probably just ag-curious.

I enjoyed The God Delusion, but bear in mind that Dawkins is NOT on the fence himself and it shows. Definitely worth checking out though.

Ofc he isn't, he is one of the greater minds of our time.

Ofc he isn't, he is one of the greater minds of our time.

lol

When looking for unbiased references, I don't generally recommend the works of an avid X on either side of the issue, but TGD is still good stuff.

That'd be like recommending a Joel Osteen book titled "The God Fact."

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....the question did what it was intended to do. I know that the proof of aliens and the proof of God are two different things. I was just getting tired of the whole, "you're irrational because you think God is real and here's why" stuff. I get that mathematically and scientifically there is no evidence that God exists and at the same time can be used to debunk religion to an extent, but the argument that the universe is just too big for there not to be other life forms is just as an irrational thought IMO. They are kind of related and technically kind of the same. Ok, so maybe some of the numbers are wrong that some religions are preaching, but if the stories of Apostle Paul, Mathew, Luke, etc. are true, then numbers shmumbers. What Jesus did and who He was was still very much real. Again, clearly I approached this thread wrong and maybe we should keep it to God existing vs not existing instead of athiest vs Christianity/The Bible. Or is that what this was meant to be?

if the stories of Apostle Paul, Mathew, Luke, etc. are true, then numbers shmumbers. What Jesus did and who He was was still very much real.

You can't really gloss over the first part of this and assume they are in fact true lol. The same goes for who Jesus was, what he did, or if he even existed.

the argument that the universe is just too big for there not to be other life forms is just as an irrational thought IMO. They are kind of related and technically kind of the same.

Aliens = any sort of other life that has formed in this massive universe over the course of time.

God = all-powerful kick-ass dude who created everything and is sick good at the pokerz.

These are not the same imo.

You can't really gloss over the first part of this and assume they are in fact true lol. The same goes for who Jesus was, what he did, or if he even existed.

Tecmo, as a Christian man I still agree with you here. What I chose to believe as truth doesn't make it true and I understand that. This was just said to make a small point. That's all.

Tecmo, as a Christian man I still agree with you here. What I chose to believe as truth doesn't make it true and I understand that. This was just said to make a small point. That's all.

I can tell you though, I sure wish historical documents were more trustworthy. That would make all of this much easier!

I get that mathematically and scientifically there is no evidence that God exists and at the same time can be used to debunk religion to an extent, but the argument that the universe is just too big for there not to be other life forms is just as an irrational thought IMO. They are kind of related and technically kind of the same. Ok, so maybe some of the numbers are wrong that some religions are preaching, but if the stories of Apostle Paul, Mathew, Luke, etc. are true, then numbers shmumbers. What Jesus did and who He was was still very much real.

The question of aliens is an odds problem that we can (very)roughly calculate. The God question cannot be answered conventionally because no technology or method that humankind possesses can fathom the supernatural. Different questions obv.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....the question did what it was intended to do. I know that the proof of aliens and the proof of God are two different things. I was just getting tired of the whole, "you're irrational because you think God is real and here's why" stuff. I get that mathematically and scientifically there is no evidence that God exists and at the same time can be used to debunk religion to an extent, but the argument that the universe is just too big for there not to be other life forms is just as an irrational thought IMO. They are kind of related and technically kind of the same. Ok, so maybe some of the numbers are wrong that some religions are preaching, but if the stories of Apostle Paul, Mathew, Luke, etc. are true, then numbers shmumbers. What Jesus did and who He was was still very much real. Again, clearly I approached this thread wrong and maybe we should keep it to God existing vs not existing instead of athiest vs Christianity/The Bible. Or is that what this was meant to be?

The flaw in your argument is that I've never said that there isn't a God, but that there is no evidence for one.

There is a difference in not believing in something because of lack of evidence supporting it, and believing in something because there is no evidence to suggest it doesn't exist.

Also, logically speaking, the existence of alien life forms in the universe is far greater than the likelihood of an all-powerful, omnipotent being.

Ok, so maybe some of the numbers are wrong that some religions are preaching, but if the stories of Apostle Paul, Mathew, Luke, etc. are true, then numbers shmumbers. What Jesus did and who He was was still very much real.

IDK, Jesus' miracles could have been exaggerated a bit.

I know that vid is just silliness and doesn't advance the debate in any way, but on the other hand, it's hilarious.