General Poker Discussion Poker Forums

The guy has ignored my PM to him on 2p2 (weeks ago, when he invited ppl to PM him) and my Tweet to him today asking about the status of VP cashouts. Draw your own conclusions about why that might be.

WOT, he was on an interview today on quadjacks and he seemed like a really down to earth guy. He basically said that all VP deposits and withdrawals were processed through cake and he had nothing to do with them. I'm not sure how to take that but hopefully he doesn't skrew any U.S. players.

could anyone upload that dwan youtube thing to any other videosite or some fileuploadstuff - not allowed to watch in germany due some law stuff
i have a good friend in china who has to connect to facebook only by vpn, no way to browse for foreign newssites etc - whole stuff goin on more and more reminds me :S

The is no durrrr interview. Don't click on dayoldhater's links. He's a troll.

It's just a rickrolling, don't worry about it.

haha okay. still same thoughts on "this is not available in ur country"

I'm not well as well versed on litigation as others, so I can only hope that you are correct. Others (like DC's own NoahSD -- http://www.nsdpoker.com/) don't quite feel the same way. I'm under the assumption that this case doesn't even see the light of day in court, and if it does, our money will be locked away for a very, very long time.

Hopefully this ends up like the Neteller fiasco (although I honestly know nothing about that case) and players get their money within 6 months.

I have no background on this, just experience. But from what I read, it might not see the a day in court via a settlement (PartyPoker settled w/the DOJ years ago.) However, one thing is that UIGEA explicitly did not stop was withdrawals, and DOJ/Neteller finally came to this agreement and released funds. Since this has happened already, it may set precedent.

For the recreational player, I agree with this. But for us pros, I think its a little silly to blame for the poker sites for doing exactly what we hoped they would do. None of us were thanking Party Poker for pulling out of the US market, and none of us should be blaming Stars for the decisions they had to make to *not* pull out. I think blaming the sites at this point is akin to a mafia wife getting upset that the fancy clothes and jewelry she is wearing were paid for with illicit $.

I think you just made Improva's point here. I pointed this out a while ago. It reminds me of when you'd see an episode of Jerry Springer where a man would cheat on his girlfriend and the girlfriend would get more mad at the other girl than at her boyfriend!

But I digress...blaming the DOJ for going after sites which *allegedly* conducted criminal activity just because you benefited from said activity is what's silly to me. Sure, you wanted the sites to do anything and everything so you could continue playing, but that doesn't mean what they did was right. Using your analogy, the mafia wife knows exactly what's she's doing and has no right to blame the cops. She should blame herself when ish hits the fan.

However, w/ online poker, I doubt many were aware of the various activities going on behind the scenes for which they are now charged. Would knowledge of it have stopped most of the poker community? I doubt it, which pushes poker players closer to becoming the mafia wife.

In the end, I'd be upset with any persons or laws preventing us from the personal freedom to play a game. I'd be upset with the poker sites for putting themselves and us in this situation. I'd be upset with anyone who has never even taken the time to email their representatives. My list could go on if we were to include politicians and whatnot, but it would not include the DOJ for investigating criminal activity and performing their job.

So yes, I agree with you that it's silly to blame the poker sites to a point, depending on your knowledge of their activities. The silliness in that situation is just due to the jewelry, mink coats, and excessive amounts of make-up we all gained by their activities. But blaming the DOJ is far sillier in my eyes.

I have no background on this, just experience. But from what I read, it might not see the a day in court via a settlement (PartyPoker settled w/the DOJ years ago.) However, one thing is that UIGEA explicitly did not stop was withdrawals, and DOJ/Neteller finally came to this agreement and released funds. Since this has happened already, it may set precedent.

From what I remember re: Neteller is that pretty much everyone that had funds in limbo were out of the loop until, poof, money was unlocked. I can deal with no longer being able to play on FTP, Stars, et al, but I just want some transparency from the sites when it comes to players' funds.

From what I remember re: Neteller is that pretty much everyone that had funds in limbo were out of the loop until, poof, money was unlocked. I can deal with no longer being able to play on FTP, Stars, et al, but I just want some transparency from the sites when it comes to players' funds.

We have not been in this more than two days, and over a weekend. There was such a "run on the bank" that all the sites will process the non-US players first (and trust me many withdrew a chunk in panic) then hold the funds until some legal proceeding commences. (arraignment, hearing, etc) One the docket that day current US player funds will be discussed. This is months away likely but hopefully quicker resolve since precedent has been set w/Neteller.

I have no background on this, just experience. But from what I read, it might not see the a day in court via a settlement (PartyPoker settled w/the DOJ years ago.) However, one thing is that UIGEA explicitly did not stop was withdrawals, and DOJ/Neteller finally came to this agreement and released funds. Since this has happened already, it may set precedent.

I agree with this. I'm just speculating like everyone else, but due to the convoluted nature of this situation, I'd wager a large amount that it follows suit w/ PartyPoker and ends in settlement. The gov't likes open/shut cases which is why they win so many that actually make it to court. It'd probably be wise for everyone involved to settle this out of court.

Tecmo, I agree that I don't "blame" the DOJ either. It's just a thing that happened that I wish didn't happen. My golden goose died and I wasn't prepared for it, that's pretty much it.

Tecmo, I agree that I don't "blame" the DOJ either. It's just a thing that happened that I wish didn't happen. My golden goose died and I wasn't prepared for it, that's pretty much it.

Yea, for some reason I was speaking to all those who blamed the DOJ and doing it while seemingly talking to just you lol. You never even said anything about the DOJ

If anyone has been watching the news over the last month (US govt almost shutdown), they have been battling again over the budget (that was never passed last year for 2011).

In the end, it came down to a few billions of dollars taken off the budget -- and it was a fight. Now, they are going to vote on raising the debt-ceiling again, and maybe long term budget/deficit reduction. It will be a cat fight. Responsible government vs Tax and Spend more.


We (U.S.) have been kicking-the-can-down-the-road for a long time -- and everyone is at fault (left, right, center). Surprisingly, one of the biggest issues in the coming elections (president) will be over the budget/deficit. The current administration can no longer blame everyone else (as it seems to do by default).

It is also interesting that we laugh at billions of dollars today. That is why the recent government keeps spending TRILLions like it is normal petty cash (thinking it will be someone else's responsibility later).

This latest shut down battle was not over the money, and no one anywhere in government is championing responsible government. They just say they are to accomplish their agenda.


And the US Budget hit a trillion dollars before the current administration. Also, the president does not personally okay every US attorney's prosecution.


The $3billion dollars is not enough money to rouse the greed of government. State governments may be very interested in online poker money, but not the Feds. The States are in a much riskier position and need to get their hands on as many revenue sources as they can. The Federal government simply does not need to specifically seek out criminal cases to prosecute for the purposes of revenue generation over a few billion. Make it a 100 billion and you might have an argument. That pays for like 8months of a war. 3 billion pays for maybe 10 days.



Blaming is pointless. The sites did what they had to do to keep offering US players their product. The DOJ is supposed to prosecute crimes. It's easy to call them bastards, but the whole reason there is a justice department is because they are supposed to enforce US law and prosecute violators. It's their job. If one has a need to point the finger at someone, then those who passed the law the sites broke and the DOJ enforced are the most accurate targets for blame. But it's neither here nor there because it gets one nothing.

Although, I do think the sites and players deserve some... blame if you want to call it that for not challenging the UIGEA in court immediately after it passed. Instead they waited to see if there were loopholes, gray areas, and/or how aggressive the feds were going to be in order to exploit those. Since there were loopholes, gray areas, and they seemed low priority to the feds, everybody just decided to game the new system rather than challenge it.

You guys are pretty far off the mark with your "Don't blame the DoJ" garbage, imo. Those miserable bureaucrat lawyers have a great deal of discretion in what to go after, and they're wasting our taxpayer dollars going after this instead of actual criminals who have actually hurt someone. And they're doing it because they want to rack up some high profile cases to further their own careers.

They've been doing this for years in direct contradiction to federal court rulings that existing gambling statutes don't apply to these online poker site. They've been aggressively going after payment processors in spite of the fact that even in cases where online gambling is illegal, UIGEA provided a carve-out for withdrawals. This has forced the hand of the poker sites into their shady operations.

If you know anything about these New York DoJ guys, you'll know that they have no respect for the law, for civil rights, or anything but scoring points for election campaigns down the road or administrative appointments. They are the ultimate root of all of this garbage. They suck, and I hope they get splinters in their eyes which get infected with MRSA and their faces rot off.

You guys are pretty far off the mark with your "Don't blame the DoJ" garbage, imo. Those miserable bureaucrat lawyers have a great deal of discretion in what to go after, and they're wasting our taxpayer dollars going after this instead of actual criminals who have actually hurt someone. And they're doing it because they want to rack up some high profile cases to further their own careers..........

+1
Haven't you heard? Obama and Eric Holder (DoJ) walk on water. They would never pick and choose what cases to go after. If this was the Bush Admin, we would never hear the end of how it was all his fault. It is amazing to me, how the current administration is shielded from any fault or responsibility.
No free passes to anyone (left, right, or center) IMO.

Here is one blatant case the DoJ could have prosecuted easily, but Eric Holder decided to drop the case (Black Panthers intimidation at a polling site)

.

Im seeing soooo many brand new accounts popping up on FTP. Brand new accounts playing fairly small outta China/Poland/insert non-us here.

Its just kinda funny... Clear ToS violations, possible UIGEA violations, but Im sure everyone will justify this away. Poker players really dont help their own cause.......

My suspicious mind says that there is more to the DOJ's actions than just enforcing the UIGEA. When Harry Reid tried passing his poker legislation a few months ago, the writers of the legislation were quite open about the fact that powerful businessmen wanted the current sites out of the market so they could enter without any real competition.

There are clearly some fanatics out there who are against online poker. But I don't think that there are enough of them to cause online poker the grief it's been getting. My gut feeling says that a lot of the righteous indignation against online poker comes from people who have something to gain by the departure of the large poker sites that have gained such a foothold in the market.

Sure the DOJ is responsible for enforcing the law but the influences that have caused such investigative resources to be spent on such a benign industry we'll probably never know.