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I think you are definitely right that this is not about money. This is ideology.

We are way past ideology. This is all about the government wanting money. For this same reason, France isolated its players to keep cash flow internal (along with extra tax revenue).

This is what I do not get....
Everyone seems to be ignoring that this whole thing did not go down.........without Eric Holder (DoJ) and Barrack Obama authorizing it. This is huge, and would not have happened without permission from the top level. Too much political equity at stake going into elections.

For that reason, this has to be about money IMO.
The default strawmen are not in control of the DoJ or Administration.

Yeah, I understand.

Interestingly enough, on Quad jacks right now, Scott Matusow (Mike's bro) is making the same argument I made (no victim). Guess we'll see, as they say.

In the end, maybe it really does all come down to whether these businesses fit the definition of "illegal internet gambling" operations.

The Poker Companies (as they are referenced by DOJ) do have good legal arguments available to them. But so does the Gov't.

I suspect this battle will be fought on paper - a real trial is highly unlikely. Summary Judgment arguments will be made by both sides with heavy emphasis on legal arguments. From there, each side will have a better understanding of its relevant strength to cut deal deals.

Never a dull moment, eh?

I'm listening to it now, and had no idea that a Matusow could actually discuss politics/lobbying/poker regulation and sound knowledgeable. The podcast is really good

If this was a state beef then the "this is about the money" argument might hold some weight.
This is federal... 3 billion (while the number itself is a joke and impossible for the companies to come up with) is pennies to the goverment. We spend around 250 million a day fighting wars, the 3 billion couldn't cover a month of spending like that.

This is about crushing the industry to pave the way for new government/state enterprise.

I haven't logged out of the FTP client for days now and can play real money tourneys and stuff. Should I stop playing?

hehe, wanna make a last longer bet?

http://wickedchopspoker.com/the-new-poker-world-order/

This is a really good article imo. I'm getting these links from Kevmath on twitter, so follow him if you want some good Black Friday reading material

It wasn't illegal to drink. It was illegal to buy or sell liquor.

They didn't even jail Capone on liquor charges, they got him on tax evasion!

Sounds familiar don't it?

The reason the government finally caved was because of all the mafia involvement and the ridiculous increase in the crime rate as a result of the black market that inevitably followed. They decided finally to tax liquor and get rid of the black market, drop in crime, more people happy, more money.


It just makes no fucking sense. They did the same thing with the war on drugs and now poker. When are they gonna learn!? Some of these guys actually went to Ivy Leagues!

This is simply federal prohibition in disguise, afaic UB Stars and Tilt are the Capones of our era. The govt was fucked back then and they're fucked now. They want 1-300 billion payment that they are almost 100% sure to not receive? You have $14 trillion in national debt, wtf is 300 billion gonna do? If they were smart they would allow all sites to cater to US players but impose tax on them. We're talking hundreds of billions in taxes over a 5 year period, maybe more.

This is about more than just money. The neo-conservative born again christians who don't like gambling and the giant casinos are all pulling politicians strings in Washington. Harry Reid, the genius, proposed recently to outlaw prostitution in Nevada...even though his own mother brought him up while involved in business with the cathouses. And some people want this guy to push forward government legislation on poker?

What's really going on?

The most likely explanation is just like it was in the 20's. Many different sources with power and money pulling multiple politicians' strings in Washington that completely fuck over the people who voted them in. I'm not hating on Americans in general but it's time to wake up. This has been going on for at least 50 years. I'm wondering when you're gonna shake your chains loose and do what your forefathers suggested.

That starbucks does taste good though, doesn't it. Hope it's worth it.

Holy S*** man, so well said I couldn't agree any more.

If this was a state beef then the "this is about the money" argument might hold some weight.
This is federal... 3 billion (while the number itself is a joke and impossible for the companies to come up with) is pennies to the goverment. We spend around 250 million a day fighting wars, the 3 billion couldn't cover a month of spending like that.

This is about crushing the industry to pave the way for new government/state enterprise.

Brandon Adams seems to think so too: http://twitter.com/#!/badams78

If this was a state beef then the "this is about the money" argument might hold some weight.
This is federal... 3 billion (while the number itself is a joke and impossible for the companies to come up with) is pennies to the goverment. We spend around 250 million a day fighting wars, the 3 billion couldn't cover a month of spending like that................

If anyone has been watching the news over the last month (US govt almost shutdown), they have been battling again over the budget (that was never passed last year for 2011).

In the end, it came down to a few billions of dollars taken off the budget -- and it was a fight. Now, they are going to vote on raising the debt-ceiling again, and maybe long term budget/deficit reduction. It will be a cat fight. Responsible government vs Tax and Spend more.

We (U.S.) have been kicking-the-can-down-the-road for a long time -- and everyone is at fault (left, right, center). Surprisingly, one of the biggest issues in the coming elections (president) will be over the budget/deficit. The current administration can no longer blame everyone else (as it seems to do by default).

It is also interesting that we laugh at billions of dollars today. That is why the recent government keeps spending TRILLions like it is normal petty cash (thinking it will be someone else's responsibility later).

1,000,000 of 1,000,000 = trillion
1,000 of 1,000,000 = billion

Summary: Tax Revenue (money).

EDIT: there have also been recent proposals raised (again) to impose Internet Sales Tax. This will change our world a lot. We will be able to say, "I remember when when there was no Sales Tax on the Internet."

Hey guys, requested cashout via MB for a little over 1k and it was processed and approved in about 3 hours today. (Canada)

Hey guys, requested cashout via MB for a little over 1k and it was processed and approved in about 3 hours today. (Canada)

I'd expect more of this for non-US people as the cashout rush starts to trail off a bit. Nothing has changed for US players AFAIK.

I'd expect more of this for non-US people as the cashout rush starts to trail off a bit. Nothing has changed for US players AFAIK.

I know, just trying to provide updates for non-us players, they've been having problems with MB over the weekend.

Hey guys, requested cashout via MB for a little over 1k and it was processed and approved in about 3 hours today. (Canada)

dayoldhater.... site?

dayoldhater.... site?

Sorry, it was Pokerstars.

k..FTP still doesn't work with MB

http://wickedchopspoker.com/the-new-poker-world-order/

This is a really good article imo. I'm getting these links from Kevmath on twitter, so follow him if you want some good Black Friday reading material

thoughts on playing on bodog?